Please check out Steve's (86soon3.4) beautiful engine paint job on the rottinresurrection build in general chat. VERY IMPRESSIVE! I'm sure others have gone above and beyond what GM originally did with powder coating etc. I went the cheap route. I painted my exhaust manifolds and everything else gloss black with high temp engine enamel. It was very stinky the first tank of gas I went through! The heat shields still have paint on them and look good but the manifolds and crossover pipe burnt the paint off and are back to rust orange/brown color. I spent about 5 hours replacing all the gaskets on my engine on a Saturday afternoon while my wife walked across Lake Winnebago for the humane society or something. It sounded like a good reason to be outside in the middle of winter having cocktails and raising money but I prefer to stay warm. I spent maybe 10 minutes painting my engine. I laid it on heavy! So heavy it was literally dripping off. Whatev
I taped off the SC gasket area:
I hope Dupli-color can give me some sponsor money.....
I just made it to page 3!!! Who needs some Fiero production numbers??? I have a 4 page print off of RPO codes. I wish I could post them all but...that's a ton of work! If anyone needs to be decoded, please let me know. I would be more than happy to help you out. AD3: sunroof. AF9 is the power lumbar option in 1988 only, before that it meant it had a reclining seat. C49 rear defrost. CJB is the t-top option for 1988 only. DG7 is power mirrors. K34 cruise control. UQ6 is the HP sound subwoofer that was offered from 86-88. WU2 signifies the "GT" model. Marshal
The stock 3.8 SC pulley comes off and ZZP 3.4 SC pulley goes on. I am hoping to bring the boost pressure up from 6, to 9 or 10. This should be a quick and easy 30 HP! I will also be running spark plugs that are 2 heat ranges colder, colder t-stat, and a free flowing intake and exhaust. Using too small of a pulley without other serious modifications can cause too much KR (knock retard). KR reduces full throttle timing reducing HP.
3.4 press on pulley Part # ZZ-PRESSPUL-34 $69.99
SC pulley tool Part # ZZ-PPULR-NEW $109.99
Shipping cost of $14.45
If anyone would like to borrow this aluminum pulley tool for removal and installation of a press on pulley, just ask. No, I will not ship it to you.
ZZPerformance 2nd gen puller:
Remove the vented bolt on the pulley and save it for installation. Use PLENTY of anti-seize!
Sandwich the pulley with the provided bolts of course using anti-seize. Use hand tools! Don't be afraid of the odd noises as the stock pulley comes off.
Side by side of the 2 pulleys:
Stacked:
Installation using more anti-seize and hand tools.
Install flush with the snout and reinstall the vent bolt.
Now would be a good time to change the stinky fluid in the SC. I found documentation in the car of this already being done recently. Yes!! No stink for me.
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 07-17-2014).]
yes that oil is some nasty smelling stuff! I changed mine and wore rubber gloves of course. Probably should have worn a whole rubber suit. lol The smell from that oil just seems to attach itself to ya without even having touched it.
Throttle body: Clean it up with TB cleaner and an old tooth brush. Use a little MAF cleaner also. R&R IAC and clean. Check previous posts for gasket part number and torque spec.
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 07-19-2014).]
I turned the vac tree on the SC around thinking it would be more functional. I did not like that one of the ports butted right up to the TB and would be nearly non functional. I decided to keep it in the original position but because it is on the top and one of the first things seen on the engine I did not want to just put a hose with a bolt in the end to plug the larger vac port so I got "creative". I think I missed talking about the PCV. Microguard part number PCV299 that I got at OR for $2.22.
Vac tree with a lube cap and some silicone:
Silicone applied and cap installed tightly:
Cap (plug) cut off flush and silicone cleaned off:
Gloss black touch up paint (just so people will point out my "huge vacuum leak")
I know this is a build thread but... yesterday (Sunday) I left my house and was on my way to help a friend fix his A/C on his TDI. I know there was a car show in town judging by the crazy amount of old/cool cars everywhere. I thought I saw what looked to be Fiero taillights ahead of me but with 5 cars between us I wasn't for sure. I caught up to it and it was a GT. I pulled in the lane next to it and it had T-Tops! I wasn't going to let a 88 GT t-top car come to my town without talking to the owner. The driver was wearing a hat with sparkles on the brim. Maybe I don't wanna talk to this guy I thought. I pulled up next to the car and yelled "nice car". She responded "lets talk". I pulled into a McD's and I did not even properly introduce myself and just blurted out: "Is that a CJB? Do you realize how rare that car is?" Of course she knew. We introduced ourselves and talked briefly about Obama Care health insurance. No actually I think we just talked Fiero stuff. Her name is Susan and she lives on the north side of Appleton. Not only does she own a 88 GT t-top 5 speed with beachwood interior, she also has a low mileage 88 Formula, AND her son has a Fiero also! It just completely made my day! I couldn't talk long but we exchanged phone numbers and I am quite sure I will be seen her again.
Me being all creepy:
AWESOME CAR:
My car looks dirty next to hers:
If I would have been driving any other car that day she would have called the cops and sprayed me with mace. I love owning a Fiero and being part of such an a great group of people. Thanks Susan for brightening my day!!
A shot of my car when it is much cleaner:
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 07-21-2014).]
Engine and trans mounts: You could try to reuse the stock rubber mounts if you are doing a completely stock 3800. 3800SC I would recommend going with poly due to the horsepower and torque especially if there will be some abusive driving sessions. I have heard some complain about poly mounts with an automatic transmission in gear at a stop getting some bad vibrations. Also if you modify a 3800SC with a pulley or something else, it would be best to have a 4th mounting point like an upper dog bone. Maybe even 2 upper dog bones if you are going crazy with power like a turbo or something. I have also seen lower mount/dog bone setups too. In my opinion, poly does give my car a "rigid racecar" feel. There might be a few places to buy these mounts. I got mine from Rodney Dickman .com. The quality is TOP NOTCH!! The 2 trans mounts are adjustable! I purchased the engine mount, the 2 trans mounts, and his adjustable dog done mount. TOP NOTCH QUALITY!!! Check out his website for all the current prices.
He invited me to his house to save on shipping costs. He lives very close to Manheim Milwaukee which was convenient for me to check out some cars on the pre-sale listing for online bidding. It was January and he was taking down some outdoor lights with his wife. He has a nice house in a nice neighborhood. He didn't just take my money and send me off. We had a great conversation and I got to know him a little better. GREAT GUY WITH GREAT PRODUCTS! I currently can not find any pictures of his mounts but I will keep searching.
Met her and her son at a show in Green Bay last year. Models, Monsters and Motors. Marshal...you need to go to that show!!
quote
Originally posted by AutoMarshal:
I know this is a build thread but... yesterday (Sunday) I left my house and was on my way to help a friend fix his A/C on his TDI. I know there was a car show in town judging by the crazy amount of old/cool cars everywhere. I thought I saw what looked to be Fiero taillights ahead of me but with 5 cars between us I wasn't for sure. I caught up to it and it was a GT. I pulled in the lane next to it and it had T-Tops! I wasn't going to let a 88 GT t-top car come to my town without talking to the owner. The driver was wearing a hat with sparkles on the brim. Maybe I don't wanna talk to this guy I thought. I pulled up next to the car and yelled "nice car". She responded "lets talk". I pulled into a McD's and I did not even properly introduce myself and just blurted out: "Is that a CJB? Do you realize how rare that car is?" Of course she knew. We introduced ourselves and talked briefly about Obama Care health insurance. No actually I think we just talked Fiero stuff. Her name is Susan and she lives on the north side of Appleton. Not only does she own a 88 GT t-top 5 speed with beachwood interior, she also has a low mileage 88 Formula, AND her son has a Fiero also! It just completely made my day! I couldn't talk long but we exchanged phone numbers and I am quite sure I will be seen her again.
Me being all creepy:
AWESOME CAR:
My car looks dirty next to hers:
If I would have been driving any other car that day she would have called the cops and sprayed me with mace. I love owning a Fiero and being part of such an a great group of people. Thanks Susan for brightening my day!!
Steve, should I bring the yellow car or the red car? Or just come as a spectator? It seems like every time I drive the yellow car it has a big bullseye on it. I took it for a 15 min ride to Home Depot and twice almost got smoked by some other idiot. Marshal
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 07-23-2014).]
Steve, should I bring the yellow car or the red car? Or just come as a spectator? It seems like every time I drive the yellow car it has a big bullseye on it. I took it for a 15 min ride to Home Depot and twice almost got smoked by some other idiot. Marshal
I went with Autolite (which I have never liked in the past(at least in GM vehicles)). Autolite 104's are 2 stages colder than stock. They are a copper spark plug that need to be changed out more often but the performance and KR reduction should be excellent. I bought mine at the local Automotive Supply (AS) for $1.56 each. Times 6 is a total of $9.36. There is a ton of different opinions on gap. I gapped mine at .051 jjjuuusssttt to be different.
Black block, silver SC bolted down, and red VC sets it all off!
Unfortunately the SC turns to a gold color after putting some miles on
Spark plugs installed with a touch of anti-seize on the threads. Also, the upstream HO2S installed. Denso part# 234-4018. $28.38 at the local Auto Supply.
Stock injectors. I also replaced the PCV. Microguard part# PCV299. I got it at O'Reilly for $2.22.
Thermostat: I used 180*. Part# 45848. I paid $7.38 for it. I also drilled a hole in it with a 1/16" drill bit to help in purging/ bleeding the air out of the system. I'm sure the hole is already plugged with debris by now. In theory it works in my head. I will not be driving my car in the winter/ cold months.
I thought I felt a bit of looseness from some of the pulleys so I decided to replace them...... the new ones had the same amount of play. I ended up just keeping the pulleys on.
I wanted to purchase all my swap components from one vendor so I commissioned Dan (FIEROFLYER). He told me I got his final set as he was having medical issues and needed to do less physical work. His products were AWESOME and priced GREAT! He passed on his mount ideas to Roger (fierorog). He might still be doing harnesses, but I'm not sure. Timm (phonedawgs) also makes a great harness I was told. The harness is not too difficult to make but it can be time consuming. These guys have mock up jigs setup to mimic an actual car to determine how long the wires need to be. I needed to lengthen my AC pressure wires. So I cut through Dan's tape job, and then took off the loom, and then cut through another tape layer. My hands and wrists started to hurt just thinking of the amount of time he spent wrapping all the wires over and over. Then I started getting a headache thinking about the solder smoke burning my eyes. There is something to be said about spending a little bit of money and having a turn key swap wire harness. Dan made me an awesome wiring harness that came with a matching PCM. There might be a few out here that have the capabilities to retune or burn a swap PCM; in all my homework most recommend Ryan (DarthFiero). I will stop typing because no one reads this stuff any ways....PICTURES!!
I sent him the GTP wire harness along with the Fiero engine portion of the C500 and C203 as pictured in previous posts.
Simple, yet functional low mount alternator bracket that bolts where the PS pump was.
I love that lug nut!! So simple and functional!!
I also sent Dan my stock alternator bracket with the tensioner. He takes it apart and relocates it. There is plenty of build threads on this so I won't explain it. He must make this on an actual engine as it is sooo close to the other pulley when installed. I like Dan's idea on keeping this stock mount to build a solid dog bone bracket!
His engine mount bolts to both sides of the block unlike the WCF mount.
When I bolted this mount to my engine I about defecated myself. I figured it might be too small and I will have to heat it up and widen it or it might be too large and I might have to draw it tight with the bolts and hope not to wreck any block threads. WRONG...perfect fit which he must have made it directly on a 3800 block.
Dog bone mount: Simple, functional, and incredible strong!!
It bolts to the stock upper alternator mount.
I had a LONG winter and some extra time before the swap so I hit all the parts with some more high temp gloss black.
I take a small section of this mount off where the A/C compressor hits it. I will show pictures of this later.
What are those wheels in the back ground?
These came off an '88 GT from a junk yard in Oklahoma. I thought I wanted them for my red car but now I'm not sure. They should technically be '87 GT wheels due to the valve stem location and logo center caps. Maybe it was a very early production '88 GT? I have 2 fronts and 2 rears black lace in good condition. I would let them go for $300 plus shipping if anyone wants.
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 07-30-2014).]
I needed to "hone" this hole out a bit larger like 1/2"ish? I also needed to find a random bolt long enough but not too long that would match the threads of the awesome lug nut. No problem!
I used a wire brush in my drill to clean the alternator up. No paint.
I used the stock bolts here:
Lookin' good if I do say so myself!
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 07-30-2014).]
Upper dog bone bracket that bolts to the stock 3800 alternator bracket. I used Rodney's adjustable poly dog bone and bolted it to the stock Fiero location.
Here is some pictures of the belt routing. The SC belt is Duralast part# 660K6 from Auto Zone which cost me $13.71. The accessory belt is a Bando part# 6PK2080 which I got from the local Automotive Supply Company for $16.66. Check out the picture for cross part#'s. The modified tensioner pulley is very close to the SC pulley! Also some random pictures of the crank and cam sensor wiring harness with a ground hooked up.
These are pictures of the starter installed. I have a lot of extra amp wiring that came out of used cars. Zero gauge would be best and I thought I used 2 gauge but that last picture almost looks like 4 gauge. It is best to have at least 3 ground wires run. One from the battery to the block, one from the battery to the body, one from the block to body. Don't be afraid to have even more grounds than that. The large positive runs directly from the battery to the starter. Of course there is also battery positive feeds built into the harness.
YUP! Definitely 4 gauge wire which is little on the small side for a positive starter wire that draws lots of amps. These connectors can be either crimped or soldered on..... or both. Use electrical tape to go over the connections and then wrap them in loom.
I have way more length than I need but I will custom fit them and cut them, and the other end will go into battery side post terminals.
Spark plug wires: I got mine from AS for $14.18 part# 7696F. Plus the cost of wire loom to protect them from heat etc. I plan on installing my coil packs and ICM on the firewall so there is no need for a custom spark plug wire set nor extending the ICM wire harness. More pictures of that to come..... Don't forget to put a dab of dielectric grease in the ends of the wire boots.
Did I mention I love zip ties? They keep everything neat and tidy and clean looking and safe from moving parts and high temperatures. BUY SOME!!
It looks like I forgot to mention changing one of the pulleys. The stock 3800 alt mount with the modified tensioner has a smooth pulley and needs to changed over to a ribbed pulley. I used my original SC ribbed pulley but you can buy a new one if you want to. Gates part# 38009 $15.29.
It looks like my engine is done with fresh gaskets, 3.4 SC pulley, colder plugs, and colder t-stat. I did not remove the heads nor the exhaust. If I missed any thing or if someone has a question please feel free to post something on here. This winter seemed extra long. I was waiting for the day that the snow would finally melt so I could get my car out of the garage. I wanted to do this swap in a weekend. I didn't want to push the car out or tie up a hoist. I would probably not recommend the average guy do this swap in a weekend. I spent 4 hours Friday night dropping the cradle, removing the stock 2.8, cleaning the trans, and bolting my flywheel and clutch to the 3.8. I did not take a lot of pictures of the cradle removal thinking there must be tons of threads on this along with you tube videos. I spent 12 hours on Saturday completing the swap including the first start with coolant bleeding/ purging ( I do have a short video of the first start). And then 3 hours on Sunday building an exhaust ( I am definitely not a fabricator nor a good welder). I had a hard time getting out of "work mode" and just slowing down to enjoy the swap that I had been planning for months. I envy the guys that have nice easy high paying jobs NOT in the automotive field that can go to their garages and mess with cars as a hobby to get away from it all! I also knew I needed to do this swap before summer begins or I might never do it. Nice warm summer days in Wisconsin are like gold to me. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Wisco summer, everything about it. I HATE working on cars in my free time, especially my own cars! I had to get the red car towed in due to a lack of wire harnesses on a Thursday night. I planned on pushing it in on Friday night and starting the swap. There was a running bet at work as to when my swap would be completed, no one thought I would be driving it around Sunday afternoon. The Brewers were on the radio all 3 days I was working on it. There is just something about Bob Uecker's voice that relaxes me. He definitely helped me calm down and focus on the "love" of Fieros and cars in general. I did miss my wife's Kentucky Derby party though, which makes the dates May 2, 3,and 4. I don't like mint juleps any way. The following pictures will be of the actually swap, all 19hrs of it. Here we go........
Air filter assembly removed. Disconnect the shift cables and clutch slave cylinder and hold them out of the way. Wire harness and relays stay with the engine.
Remove the fuel lines, coolant lines, vac lines, ground straps, wiring, etc.
All done up top. Make sure there is a clear separation of stuff staying with the engine and stuff staying with the car.
Disconnect the A/C lines and remove the strut nuts. Lower the car on some jack stands evenly. Remove the 4 cradle bolts and lift the car up..... wah lah....
I'm sure I missed some R&R details here. Watch for anything still attached while raising the vehicle and having a helper hold the struts outward might help to (definitely need a helper when installing the cradle due to the struts point inward).
