Keep all the heat shields and insulation, they are there for a reason. 3800 is hotter (temperature wise) than the 2.8. 3.8 SC is hotter (sexiness wise also) than the 2.8.
I drove my yellow car last night after I realized summer was not going to last forever. I only drove it down to the Dells Run car show, that was it. I plan on driving this car for the rest of the week,.....yes,.... all 3 days!! I feel bad driving this museum piece as the front speaker grilles haven't even turned blue yet and there is no shade on a car lot.
This car just sits in my garage.... getting dirty! I guess I should put the cover on it while it rests comfortably. When its slow, why not have detail give it another waxing. Sometimes I think about selling this ride so I can have that "one car I regret selling" story like everyone else. The red car is soooo soooo soooo much fun to drive everyday!
On second thought, my garage is too small to store all this extra stuff....
Spoiler alert..... Steve (86soon) bought the 2.8 for his Formula. He got a smokin' deal!!! Car-Part.com doesn't show any local or cheap. Steve is super smart and jumped all over this deal. He also pointed out the stainless steel vacuum lines. I cut the fuel rail to keep the fittings for my fuel lines. Here is the crappy pictures I sent him:
He didn't want this aftermarket exhaust. I don't blame him but it did have a great sound with the free flowing cat. I'm not sure what brand it is. I did however give him the MSD ignition system and whatever else I no longer needed. I kept these exhaust tips for the swap. I measured the tips and took that into consideration when ordering the muffler. A complete exhaust build will be included in this thread, stay tuned......
When I was deciding on a clutch from Spec, I originally wanted to get the 3 because of the price. Spec 3 is a puck type clutch that will have a lot of chatter. I do a lot of city driving so the 3 will not be a good choice. I then looked at the 2+ but I was worried it would not hold the power with the smaller SC pulley. I went with the Spec 3+. After the 500mi break in period of city driving and no WOT, I am very very happy with my choice! No slipping, no chatter, and it holds the power. I bought the clutch off of Amazon.com part#SC883F for $418.49, well worth it!
I got the clutch and flywheel bolts from the local GM dealership. Clutch bolts: part# 24571667 $2.60 each times 6= $15.60 Flywheel bolts: part# 24505092 $3.20 each times 8= $25.60
Torque specs: flywheel: 11 lb/ft + 50* (I like to use a bit of red thread lock on the bolts) clutch: 15 lb/ft + 45* (I like to use a bit of red thread lock on the bolts)
The clutch kit comes with a throw out bearing but if you need a part# for a replacement: #614069 BTB sells for $27.59
SPEC 3+ The flagship stage for a high powered street or race car that requires a manageable and friendly engagement, the stage 3+ features a carbon semi-metallic full faced material that offers unparalleled life, friction co-efficient and drivability characteristics in one single package. The hub is double sprung with spring cover relieves for flexibility and heat treated components for strength and durability.
Take note that the clutch has a flywheel side and a pressure plate side.
The fuel pump I chose originally was used in the GMC Typhoon and Syclone 4.3L turbo. AC Delco part# EP381. GM part# 25163473. I got mine from Advanced Auto Parts for $77.55. I think Amazon.com sells them for $56.80. Also the Fiero stock fuel filter part # GF111 from Auto Supply $3.60.
Drop the tank.... WOW!! great condition!
It is a direct replacement.
This pump has plenty of pressure and volume for a 3.8L. I wish I would have did something with my fuel level sensor while I had it out but my failing memory prevented me. This pump is very quiet until I get around 1/4 tank or less; it then has a slight hum that comes and goes depending on accel/decel. The humming gets more consistent the lower the fuel level gets. I guess this is a great way to remind me to refill (my other newer cars beep and ding when I need to refill).
Lowering the car back down onto the cradle. Have a helper pull the struts outward to line them up into the holes.
Front engine mount:
Rearward trans mount:
The cradle where the rear trans mount bolts to seems very thin to me. I would like to stiffen that area in the future by just adding a chunk of steel. Also, the mounting holes in the cradle there are slotted. As you can see the poly trans mounts I got from Rodney Dickman have 3 different mounting locations. It is hard to make a front engine mount on the 88 models because they all seem to be a little bit different. I mounted the front engine mount loosely and the 2 trans mounts lined up on opposite ends. This is not perfectly straight but still very functional. The average guy would probably not notice but I'm a bit of a perfectionist. If I lined the 2 trans mounts up in the center mounting location I would need to slot either the front engine mount or the cradle where it bolts to. I guess that's why his poly mounts have 3 different mounting holes which is very helpful.
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 08-27-2014).]
Coolant Hoses: The 2 radiator hose part numbers I got off of gmtuners.com website. Thank you Ryan! Left side hose part# E71082 $9.54 at Advanced Auto Parts. Right side hose part# E71030 $10.66 at Auto Zone.
My 88 only has one heater core hose that connects to the LIM. 5/8" heater hose is about $1 per foot. Since I have a stock 3800 t-stat housing and the tc coolant hole is plugged, I will be putting my coolant fill/bleed in this heater hose. It is the highest point on the engine. heater hose "T" part# 47152 $1.19 at Automotive Supply.
A chunk of old garden hose threads onto the t fitting and a funnel plugs right into the other end. I used a bungee chord to hold the funnel up high.
Fuel lines: some like to use the stainless steel Transport/Lumina van fuel lines. I used high pressure fuel hose. I fastened the hoses to the fuel rail (which I kept the quick connect fittings) using 2 high pressure hose clamps on each hose. I used the stock fiero fittings for the body side lines. I cut the stock fittings long enough to flare them and also used 2 high pressure hose clamps per hose. That's 8 clamps total. I used zip ties to hold the lines away from any moving parts and extreme heat. 5/16" FI hose is about $5.94/ft and 3/8" FI hose is about $6.18/ft.
The 3800 throttle bracket needs to be modified to install the stock fiero throttle cable. I got my info from gmtuners.com. Thank you Ryan!! Just use a small dremel type tool to grind a small amount of material off the sides, not too much. Grind a little and then test. I used a dab of glue to hold the cable in the bracket for ten cent insurance. Wrap the cable around and mark where the eyelet is. Use a 1/4" drill bit to make a hole and install a small bolt with nut. Thank you Ryan!!
gmtuners.com THANK YOU RYAN!!
[This message has been edited by AutoMarshal (edited 09-03-2014).]
The stock fiero brake booster vacuum hose plugs right into the 3800 TB vac port. No need for the WCF extension pipe. The hose, if routed properly, is not near the exhaust manifold.
I bought my CAI from WCF. Some modification was required for it to fit. I know I discussed this CAI in prior posts so I won't go into detail about it. The air filter I decided to use is a K&N part# RU5111 which I got from Advanced Auto Parts for $31.67. I just couldn't get myself to install the old IAT sensor into a brand new painted tube so I bought a shiny new one. IAT part# WT382 which I bought at O'Reilly Auto Parts for $19.09.
You can see the relays mounted in the stock location:
Some modification. The IAT sensor is very close.
EVAP hose:
zip tied to fasten it
I did discuss my EVAP setup prior. Here is the "vented" hose which I run by my air filter to eliminate any fuel smells.
The coils will not be able to be mounted on the stock bracket because the deck lid will hit them. There is a lot of different places to mount the ICM/coils and its all personal preference. They DO NOT like heat! They ARE waterproof. I originally was going to mount them just rearward of the battery on the strut tower but I didn't like the look of the spark plug wires routed that way. I also wanted to use a stock plug wire set and not have to extend the ICM wire harness. I mounted mine on the firewall right next to the stock 3800 bracket. I used some thin metal stock and marked/drilled the mounting holes. After the 2 brackets were attached I ground off the remainder of the bolts flush. I used some large self tap type screw/bolts to fasten the assemble to the firewall.
I think I'm ready to start it up. No exhaust but its around 8pm on a Saturday. Of course it fires right up first try. Everything sounds good. There is a short video of this exciting moment on my facebook if you're interested. Unfortunately I don't know how to upload it here.
For my coolant fill procedure I filled up the engine through the t-stat hole before installing the t-stat and housing. Filled the radiator. Filled my funnel (highest point). Bleed the air out of the t-stat housing bleeder. Then I started it and let it completely warm up so the thermostat was open and everything was flowing nicely. The radiator fans turned on and off as normal. All while air bubbles came out of my funnel. I let it sit overnight and in the morning I removed the garden hose and funnel setup and screwed on my cap for the "T" fitting. Done.
I also removed the tension rods for my decklid because they hit my SC. 86soon (Steve) just bent his right side out a little and it didn't hit. I wish I would have known this before hand. Now I need to purchase Rodney's heavy duty lift support setup for the driver's side of the decklid. CAUTION!!! These tension rods are under extreme pressure. I just started cutting them with my cut off tool die grinder......surprise!!! Fortunately I was not injured, but, be warned!
You Could flip the fuel rail so feed and return is facing firewall.
Carson is correct, you can flip the fuel rail around. The mounting bolt on top of the SC will not line up so some modification would be needed if you want some sort of fastener. The rail doesn't really need to be bolted down necessarily.
I spent a ton of time over the winter searching all the exhaust builds on here. I think there is about a half dozen different mufflers that will fit and work on this swap. I didn't want a super loud muffler that you couldn't have a conversation with someone while driving down the highway, but, I also wanted somewhat of a free flowing performance exhaust setup. I did not want to spend a bunch of money on a muffler either. After a lot of research and a few phone calls I went with Spintech. Ron on the phone was very confident that his mufflers were the best, not only performance wise but also the sound. I got part# 342SC which is a 3" in and dual 2.25" out. I paid $130 plus $30 shipping from Cali to Wisco. My 3800SC has the stock manifolds and crossover pipe. No catalytic converter is required where I live. The reason I got the dual 2.25" outlet muffler over 3" or 2.5" is strictly for sound. Smaller pipe = less noise. NO, this smaller pipe will not effect performance, remember, this is just a V6 after all. Also the chrome tips that were on my car are 2.25" making it easier to reuse them. The dimensions of this muffler are 4" X 10" X 15". Spintech does offer a slightly small muffler but it will be louder 4x9x13. They also have a 2.5" inlet muffler; I got the 3" because the stock flange is 3" (just easier).
3" 90* mandrel #41221 $19.87 each X3= $59.61 3" flex (no internal braiding) #8827 $12.96 2.25" pipe 18" long #548624 $6.50 each X2= $13 Spintec muffler #342SC $128.95 plus $31.27 shipping = $160.22 exhaust flange gasket #61310 $6.24 AD
Not much room when you want to keep the trunk:
I did not use the 2 2.25" 90* mandrel bends. This picture is of what I thought I was going to build:
The old exhaust. I kept the tips with the 90* bends.
I really hate doing exhaust work! There is no such thing as "bolt on", it's always "custom" some how.
3" flex. Note the braiding on the outside but not on the inside. High internal exhaust temps will eventually burn up the thin wire braids if they are inside.
I'm interested to see how this turns out. Here's my current exhaust:
Right now it's in getting the downpipe section upgraded to 3" with a tighter radius bend. This exhaust is pretty loud and somewhat annoying at highway speeds, especially so at interstate speeds. I'm thinking of converting to the muffler you have and running dual 2.25" outlets like you are with resonated tips to try to quiet the beast down a bit. The overall area of the two 2.25" outlets exceeds the area of a single 3" outlet so other than the muffler being slightly more restrictive I don't think it would have a huge impact on flow to go from 2.5" outlets to 2.25" outlets.
HAHA. Thanks Will, I agree they are definitely not the best but it worked in a pinch. I like the sound and performance from this setup but I may change it in the future. The "hangers" are actually the old deck lid tension rods cut up and tack welded for support. The muffler just hangs down a little too low. I kinda like the look of it but it might cause problems in the future. I only bottomed out once this summer turning a corner on a crappy road and gunning it; the muffler did not show any dents and is built VERY solid. The "hangers" held up great but my perfect center spacing was adjusted a bit so the muffler was right up to the rearward heat shield which was easily readjusted. Again, the "hangers" were not harmed and worked great so far for nearly 5 months as a daily driver.
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this. I've bookmarked it, as it's full of good information, that I'll be referring to,when I get around to doing a swap.
