I wish I could post the pics of my magna flow with bullet cat and flex pipe exhaust! No trunk cutting at all and has a low tone throaty muscle car sound!
------------------ Louis Duet --- Baldwin, Long Island, NY "I spread my wings, I try to fly. I believed in myself when there was nothing right. I know I'm dust and oh, we are sand. But we give of ourselves, as best as we can." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12, VIN #5835, Stock PRV engine, Peugot 604 Intake manifold, Exhaust headers, Anti-3rd brake light
Fantastic and informative thread! I have saved a lot of info and some part numbers for my soon upcoming swap. I will be picking up my engine in 2 weeks, and the fun begins. In the mean time it has been TONS of research and reading. This is certainly one of the better 3800 threads as far as tips and tricks to use and follow.
You mentioned you wanted a quieter exhaust setup, and went with the Spintech muffler that you did. Is it what you expected? How does it sound at 70 MPH highway speeds? I want to be able to use my speaker phone (Bluetooth Stereo) while driving, and have a conversation in the car with a passenger as well. I have used sound mat in the floor, microfiber headliner and interior firewall cover to help deaden sound as well.
Thank you for the compliments! I love love love the sound!! It can be a bit loud if you are planning on taking a long trip at highway speeds but not too terrible. With sound deadener and the windows up I'm sure you can use your Bluetooth phone adapter.
Has anyone considered coming directly off of the flat back side of the muffler with the flex pipe and connector flange, thereby lifting the muffler and tail pipes up into their proper hidden location, by welding the flex-pipe directly to the back of the muffler? That would raise the muffler and tail pipes up into their proper location, so they are not hanging down in sight... It would also provide less chance of scraping speed bumps and such.
Tightening the u-bend from the manifold flange to the muffler would raise the exhaust. The muffler and pipes can be more hidden than on this particular install.
Tightening the u-bend from the manifold flange to the muffler would raise the exhaust. The muffler and pipes can be more hidden than on this particular install.
Yes, but why not just eliminate the u-bend and weld the flex pip directly to the back of the muffler and weld the flange to the other end, which would tuck the muffler up in the area of the stock muffler...? One could possibly even use the stock muffler . The chambers would possibly have to be altered...? Or maybe use a short connecter pipe between the flange and the back of the muffler, with short flex pipes between the tail pipe and the muffler exits...?
[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 03-07-2016).]
I looked up the stage 3+ Spec #SC883F clutch on Amazon, and it is for a Chevy Beretta for $449 on special (2-left.) a good buy, but I don't know if that's the one I need...!? They have one for a 84-87 Fiero #SC773F for $454, which I know will work with my Getrag, but I want the best bang for the buck, and of course the one that will work for me...! The Beretta one #SC883F is normally $486 too. What is the difference between the two clutches? To me, they should be identical...or should they? I want to make sure the #SC883F will work on my '87 Fiero Getrag, with the old style shift fork, before I order it. Or should I order the SC773F for the 84-87 Fiero...??? If I get the wrong one, I have to go to the expense of shipping it back and a restocking fee ($$$$.)
If the #SC883F will work with my older style Getrag, then I'd rather have that one, because maybe it's got a little stronger pressure plate or something...but I don't know.,,? Or maybe the disc is a little bigger, like on the RAM clutch that the Fiero Store sells. Which brings up another question... The RAM clutch at the Fiero Store is about $100+ less with a larger diameter disc; but someone on FB forum, of reputable experience, said it would not hold up under the 3800sc torque. Would you or anyone know...? I'm in a delema...as usual...lol!
[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 03-09-2016).]
http://www.specclutches.com/699083/ I took a look on the Spec Clutch sight and found that the SC883F is good for the 85-88 V6 with 5-spd. and the SC773F is for the four spd. The SC883F is the specific clutch that Spec recommends for the 3800sc swap with Getrag 5-speed. It has a 515 lbs. of torque capacity, which 280/515=54% of it's capacity used, leaving lots left over for more torque if needed. Also, Spec makes an aluminum flywheel specific to the application (3800sc Fiero swap) for $359.10. I guess I kinda answered my own question. Spec's reduced price for the clutch is the same as Amazon at $449.10. I think I'd rather order mine through Spec direct, and you can spread your payments out over 6-months through pay-pal too.
[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 03-09-2016).]
Keep all the heat shields and insulation, they are there for a reason. 3800 is hotter (temperature wise) than the 2.8. 3.8 SC is hotter (sexiness wise also) than the 2.8.
You no longer need that coffee can.
I'm thinking, a blanket of insulation on the cabin firewall would do wonders for reduction of cabin noise from the engine on highway trips, which can get quite noisy, like flying a WW-II fighter plane. I love the sound when driving around town, but on the highway for long trips it can get tiresome. Does anyone know of someone who has done this and what kind of insulation they used...? Putting it inside the cabin is another option...?
[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 03-10-2016).]
86soon3.4 asked me via text message about my A/C lines. Summer is really starting to heat up. Now seems like a good time to talk about them. You will need the end that connects to your Fiero and the end that connects to your A/C compressor. Simply connect the two. HAHA.
Most all reputable repair shops have the crimping equipment to attach new hoses between the two ends. That part is not too difficult. The hard part is when you want to do it right and incorporate the high pressure sensor. Apparently the fittings for the sensor are no longer available aftermarket. The alternative is to have a piece of aluminum A/C line that contains the sensor brazed into or aluminum MIG welded. I am not a fabricator so I farmed this out to a local radiator shop.
Some people skip the high pressure sensor and bypass the pcm. To do this simply connect the two dark green with white tracer wires at the pcm. Clear connector C1 pin 22 (request in) and pin 39 (command out to relay).
I was not smart enough to keep the high pressure A/C line from my donor car. I called the local salvage yard and they delivered one to me for 1 dollar. Thank you! If you can, try to get the line with the sensor in it as they are a bit pricey in my opinion. ACDelco part # 95018104 sells for $51.08.
The length of the custom A/C hoses is the same as the stock 3800 and the stock Fiero hoses. Here is why I wanted to keep the sensor functional:
Description: The A/C refrigerant pressure sensor signal indicates high side refrigerant pressure to the PCM. The PCM uses this information to adjust the idle air control valve to compensate for the higher engine loads present with high A/C refrigerant pressures and to control the cooling fans. A fault in the A/C refrigerant pressure sensor signal will cause DTC P0530 to set.
Operation: The electronic A/C refrigerant pressure sensor is mounted to the line between the condenser and the evaporator. The output to the PCM is variable and depends on the pressure inside the line. A higher pressure will result in a higher voltage out. The PCM constantly monitors the A/C system pressure in order to achieve the following effects: •Disengage the A/C clutch if the pressure is above 2700 kPa (440 psi) . •Disengage the A/C clutch if pressure is below 285 kPa (38 psi) . •Boost the idle air control in order to compensate for the A/C load at idle. •Control the cooling fan operation. Replace the pressure sensor if it fails. It is not repairable.
I spent a total of $41 on my custom A/C hoses. My system was already converted to R134A which is really just some different service ports. It takes about 2.5 lbs. of Freon to charge it. If anyone needs some wiring schematics of the Fiero system or 3800SC system just let me know. It took me a little bit to figure it out myself. Here are some pictures of the hoses:
Side by side of the 2 stock hose sets:
3800 high side line with sensor:
The sensor already installed into the fitting (the part you need):
Finished product:
Those brazed splices to install the sensor connectors worry me about leaking. Couldn't one use some kind of connector sleeves to sweat the splices together for a leak proof connection...?
[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 04-10-2016).]
I found a different solution for the fan switch, which I will be trying shortly. It's basically a Tee that replaces the R134a High Side Port. It provides a New R134a port, plus a 3/8-24 port that a switch ( by using an adapter) can be screwed into. I'm doing this because on my swap, I was able to re-use the stock Fiero hoses. AP Air Part Number 461-6000 http://www.apairinc.com/sho...etails.aspx?i=132762 AP Air Part Number 461- 3125 http://www.apairinc.com/sho...etails.aspx?i=132159
They did make several versions of this tee. One of them would have been perfect, having a 10mm switch port, but no one stocks them anymore.
------------------ '87 GT in process, including GA / Seville brakes, Poly Suspension, '95 3800 Series 1 SC ( 225 hp ) 4t60e.
Here is some pictures of my LIM which I tapped and installed a fitting for my coolant feed going to my heater core. The hole measures about 7/8" but you actually need a 3/4" NPT tap. I bought mine at the local hardware store.....they hit me for $30!! If anyone wants to borrow it, please, be my guest (no, I will not ship it to you, just show up by my tool box and take it, nothing says thank you like cold beer). I bought the 90* elbow and barbed fitting from Home Depot. They are 3/4" threads and the barbed end is 5/8" for the heater hose. I like the 90* fitting so you do not need to run a coolant hose near the belts. Take your time when tapping the hole and try your best to get it as straight as possible. Gently hold your LIM in a vise. Turn the tap in and cut some threads, then all the way back out, repeat, repeat, repeat. Take your time. I used a small vacuum to suck out all the aluminum filings. Go all the way down and also use some thread tape on the fittings to insure no leaks. Stock coolant feed hole with a new 3/4 NPT tap:
There is plenty of material to cut! Take your time! You get one shot at getting it straight.
Fittings with part numbers:
Fittings installed with thread tape.
Keep it angled up.
This does not look factory/stock!
But... very functional.....
This gasket comes in a set. More info, part numbers, prices, torque specs to come later.....
This is only necessary for the 88's right...? What do I use this outlet for on my car? My car is a late run '86 GT.
I followed this thread and made the same fitting here and I can tell you on my 85 GT the heater core feed line went to that fitting on the LIM, and I used a metal T fitting to hook the heater core return Hose into the main coolant return hose to the water pump.
Will...do you have a link to Vintage Air and a part number for the sensor kit...?
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Vintage Air sells a stand-alone fitting which allows you to put this switch in the middle of the hose... no welding required for installation, only crimping.
You know what might work better and look better too...? Take the old tube hold-downs and weld a round piece in the hole where the tubes go, and make them protrude to fit into the manifold holes like the tubes, and make a nice tight, leak-proof fit. It would take someone who does aluminum welding, but should not be that big of a project... What do you think...?
quote
Originally posted by AutoMarshal:
Here are some pictures of the EGR delete plates from ZZP. Part # ZZ-EGRBO-I-E. They cost $10.99 plus shipping for the pair. I paid $14.45 for shipping but I also purchased a SC pulley and tools. I decided to spend the extra money rather than just silicone a coin under the stock EGR mounting plates. I have seen some really nice machined block off plates but they were expensive and I believe the guy was from Texas and no longer is in business. I will post more pictures of them installed later along with the ZZP SC pulley and tools.
You can see both are just plain aluminum rectangles. One has a larger hole to run a bolt into the LIM. The other is tapped for a bolt to go through the exhaust manifold.
A/C COMPRESSOR W/ LINES: gonna wanna hold on to that one
EXTRA STUFF I DON'T NEED
VALVE COVERS: I want to paint them red with silver stripes. Check that, silver stripes: too much work! High temp red will work just fine.
DIRTY ENGINE PIC! I'm going to need a lot of brake clean and some new gaskets.
SC REMOVED. Gasket cleaned off.
FUEL RAIL. I saved the quick connects. I want to paint it the same as the SC so it doesn't stand out too much.
SC WITH TB
Hi Marshal... I have used your thread for over a year and want to thank you for the time and effort you have put into it for others to gain knowledge from...!
I have a really sweet '86 GT that I have had for 7-years now, and love it. I bought it for $3500, with 97k miles, garage kept and imaculate. She has a Getrag like yours too. I did a 3.4 swap on her and won a first place trophy at NW Fiero Fest in 2011. The engine was fantastic, but had a piston slap, which turned into a piston hitting the head after about 60k miles. Still running strong, but hitting the head would eventually blow the engine, so I opted to do a 3800sc swap rather than put money and time into overhauling the 3.4. I sold the the 3.4 to Jim Shaw, a regular on FB Fiero forums. He's going go through it and put it in his stock red '88 that he wants to stay stock but has adequate power. You can see my walk-around video on you tube under hypo327.
I found a beautiful 2003 Bonneville, one owner mechanic who only ran Mobile-1 and maintained it with TLC, and she ran like a new car...no blow-by, no valve suction, and oil was clean and due for a oil change. Draw-backs are all the things you enumerated as advantages in buying your 2000 Grand Prix description. Your build was very helpful in making those necessary mods. My last mod to complete is the A/C conversion, but I ran into a small but critical problem I hope you can shed some light on in finding a solution.
I of course kept the Bonneville A/C with all the hoses, cruise, back seat battery cables to do my front battery swap, etc., and all I had to do was the those conversion like you described. Simple right? I bought a new 2003 Bonneville A/C hose assembly. from rock auto. for a little more than $50. Not bad I thought. Before I took it to an A/C guy who would modify it for me, I decided to make sure it fit the compressor...no brainer...right? Wrong...! Turns out that t;he Bonneville connection fittings have two sizes, one slightly bigger on the larger hose size. The Grand Prix fittings are both the same on each hose, like on the Fiero. Crazy because you would think that GM would use the same compressor on all 2003 Pontiacs or 3800 cars, etc. But no...it's different. So I either need a different compressor to fit my new Grand Prix hoses, or a GM car that has the Grand Prix style A/C hose connections, with one small and one larger fittings to fit my Bonneville compressor. Since you have done allot of research, I was hoping that you might know what year and make has the right Grand Prix style hoses with two different hose fittings, if any. Or...what years and models have the Grand Prix style compressors with the same size small fittings. I want to use my Bonneville compressor because it is like new, so I'd rather find a hose set-up that will work for it, but if I have to use a different compressor, maybe I can swap with a local A/C shop or something...? Please give me your opinion on this problem. If there is a Grand Prix year that actually has the different sized fittings, then all I have to do is buy the hoses for that year and model to fit my Bonneville compressor.
Thank you for the compliment! I'm glad to hear this thread is helpful. Here is some A/C compressor interchanges:
1997-2005: Bonneville, LeSabre, and Park Ave are the same. 1996-2003 with a 3.8L: Intrigue, Grand Prix, Impala, Regal, Monte Carlo, and Lumina are the same.
Mine does hang down lower than I would like. I have had it even scrape in a few instances. I love the look of it however. I guess it all depends on how you build the exhaust on how low it will hang.
When I got my 4.9 car the muffler would sometimes drag. Not good, changed it around and it's now hidden unless you crounch down from about 50 feet away. Flowmaster 40, 2.5". Nice swap.
I called Vintage Air (800-862-6658), and they told me they only have one high-side T-fitting for this purpose...here are the specs: Part # 94829-VUG 3/8" thread with 24 pitch. Make sure it fits the donor sensor. Hope that helps. Splicing a T-fitting into the hose seems to me to be the easiest and less chance of a leak...?
I found a different solution for the fan switch, which I will be trying shortly. It's basically a Tee that replaces the R134a High Side Port. It provides a New R134a port, plus a 3/8-24 port that a switch ( by using an adapter) can be screwed into. I'm doing this because on my swap, I was able to re-use the stock Fiero hoses. AP Air Part Number 461-6000 http://www.apairinc.com/sho...etails.aspx?i=132762 AP Air Part Number 461- 3125 http://www.apairinc.com/sho...etails.aspx?i=132159
They did make several versions of this tee. One of them would have been perfect, having a 10mm switch port, but no one stocks them anymore.
Are you saying that you can use a thread adapter to fit the donor switch? Where do you get an adapter at...? Do you have a part number...? Okay...sorry...I just figured out that you included the adapter link...thanks...!
[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 07-20-2017).]
The coils will not be able to be mounted on the stock bracket because the deck lid will hit them. There is a lot of different places to mount the ICM/coils and its all personal preference. They DO NOT like heat! They ARE waterproof. I originally was going to mount them just rearward of the battery on the strut tower but I didn't like the look of the spark plug wires routed that way. I also wanted to use a stock plug wire set and not have to extend the ICM wire harness. I mounted mine on the firewall right next to the stock 3800 bracket. I used some thin metal stock and marked/drilled the mounting holes. After the 2 brackets were attached I ground off the remainder of the bolts flush. I used some large self tap type screw/bolts to fasten the assemble to the firewall.
nothin' fancy:
Or you can just drill the three holes in the old battery tray which works like it was made for it. Just plug in the control module before mounting the distributor pack... I'd post a picture but can't figure our how to post pictures on this sight...sorry.
plenty of room
[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 10-22-2017).]
Thanks Marshal, very helpful writeup. blessings jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!
