If you are looking for the brackets, find a car with a4t60 in it and get the brackets off the tranny. You will be using thE factory 4t60 brackets. For the shifter bracket. Take the one off the th125, flatten the piece that bolts up to the tranny. You will be using one bolt from the shifter switch and the bolt adjacent to it. You will need to modify the holes on the bracket to get it to fit. But it is a lot easier than meshing the 125 and 4t60 brackets together.
So my trip to the boneyard was successful. I found all the brackets for the mounts I needed, plus the correct governor cap. I just got done putting the brackets and mounts on, but I have an alignment issue. My tank is empty, so I will look at it closer tomorrow. I will also follow up with some picture of the issue, and then final installation. Thanks for everyones help so far.
So AlanD here on the forum, and I were looking at wiring schematics for the TCC. We have run into an odd issue. The transmission has 4T40 stamped on it in several locations. 4T40's/4T60's are supposed to have a 5 pin connector for the TCC. However, it has a 7 pin connector, which is what normally comes with the E (electronic version) The transmission has a kickdown cable, and the transmission pan is shaped the same as a regular 4T40. (the E version has a different shape according to AllData) Those things coupled together make me pretty certain I have the right transmission. So here's the question, how do I wire the TCC up? Many thanks.
We finally got it mounted properly, but besides the issue with the TCC plug I now need to figure out how to mount the shifter mechanism. Sorry if thats not the proper name, but it's the thing on top that shift it through P, R, N, and D. I believe there is info on this, I just need to go find it.
First issue, the governor cap. The one with my 4T40, was the wrong one. The photos below will show the difference.
The governor cap on the left is off the Fiero. It will not mount onto the 4T40. Holes do not match and it will not sit flush to the tranny anyway. The one on the right (installed) does fit, however it will not work because the gear inside is metal, and spins magnetically. Unlike the Fiero gear, which is a plastic gear, and is gear driven like our headlight motors. Easy fix. I just go back to the yard and find one, off a 4T40 or 4T60 that looks like the Fiero Governor, but is a little taller. The visual comparison helped me understand exactly what I am looking for now.
Jim
So how do you know if it will fit the the trans you're using? This governor thing has me baffled. Isn't there a specific trans/model that can be recommended? I have finally settled on using a 87 to 89 Olds Cutlass Ciera trans with a 2.8. Hasn't anyone ever discovered the trans make and model that the working governor came from so if it can't found needle in haystack fashion it could be purchased? Also what "brackets" are you referring to? Do you mean motor mounts? Can't you just buy new ones for the trans make and model your using?
[This message has been edited by raysr11 (edited 10-19-2014).]
So how do you know if it will fit the the trans you're using? This governor thing has me baffled. Isn't there a specific trans/model that can be recommended? I have finally settled on using a 87 to 89 Olds Cutlass Ciera trans with a 2.8. Hasn't anyone ever discovered the trans make and model that the working governor came from so if it can't found needle in haystack fashion it could be purchased? Also what "brackets" are you referring to? Do you mean motor mounts? Can't you just buy new ones for the trans make and model your using?
The correct governor cap looks exactly like the Fiero governor, but comes from a 4T40 or 4T60. It is gear driven instead of magnetic driven. Even though it looks the same visually, it is actually taller. You can't tell that just from visual inspection. That why I said that visual "comparison" helped. You will use the VSS from the Fiero. The correct governor cap came off an 86 Cadillac, (I think a DeVille) with a 4T60 tranny
The mount issue had me confused also. The confusion came from not completely understanding what was actually the mount. A motor mount is actually only the rubber part that attaches to the cradle. The bracket, is the metal that attaches to the mount and then the tran. You will use stock motor mounts, but brackets off of any numerous cars. I got mine off of a 1990 Buick Century. Really the only way to find these is to take a picture with you to the boneyard. I don't think you can buy these from an auto parts store.
still wondering if you've got a 4T60e instead of a 4T60. The 7 pin connector isn't for a 4T60. The 4T60e will not have a tv cable. TH125's and 4T60's do. see picture below. does your transmission have the TV (kickdown cable)? both apparently have the vacuum modulator. but there is a difference in the TV cable.
The correct governor cap looks exactly like the Fiero governor, but comes from a 4T40 or 4T60. It is gear driven instead of magnetic driven. Even though it looks the same visually, it is actually taller. You can't tell that just from visual inspection. That why I said that visual "comparison" helped. You will use the VSS from the Fiero. The correct governor cap came off an 86 Cadillac, (I think a DeVille) with a 4T60 tranny
The mount issue had me confused also. The confusion came from not completely understanding what was actually the mount. A motor mount is actually only the rubber part that attaches to the cradle. The bracket, is the metal that attaches to the mount and then the tran. You will use stock motor mounts, but brackets off of any numerous cars. I got mine off of a 1990 Buick Century. Really the only way to find these is to take a picture with you to the boneyard. I don't think you can buy these from an auto parts store.
still wondering if you've got a 4T60e instead of a 4T60. The 7 pin connector isn't for a 4T60. The 4T60e will not have a tv cable. TH125's and 4T60's do. see picture below. does your transmission have the TV (kickdown cable)? both apparently have the vacuum modulator. but there is a difference in the TV cable.
Yes, mine has the kickdown cable. That's why this is so confusing. If after all this work, If I have don't have a 440T4, I will be so pissed.
Jim
Edit: I'm pissed, I have an electronically controlled F7. Almost exactly the same as a 440T4, but it's electronically controlled.
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-25-2014).]
Grant, this will help you understand what I am talking about. Red outline is the trans bracket for the front mount, and the blue outline is the actual mount. Like you, when someone referred to the "mount" I was assuming all of that was the mount. So the blue part is what stays stock, but the red parts (brackets) are what have to change.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-20-2014).]
I found the information on the shift bracket. I just need to cut off some excess and drill some mount holes on the Fiero bracket. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, if someone can just help me figure out the wiring of the TCC.
Seems to me I ordered a new mount from rockauto and it came with the complete bracket that attached both to the transmission and to the frame. I got new ones because I was also going to a 3.4 and didn't want an old fatigued mount. I just ordered one to fit the car my trans came from a 1991 olds delta 88. when I switched transmissons to a 89 cutlass ciera I kept those same mounts.
the 7 pin in confusing. do you have a picture showing what you plug into on the transmission? If you plan to have the ECM control the TCC the fiero harness only has 2 wires. Purple is for the brake switch and black/tan is the actual ECM TCC control. but the 7 pin on the right in your photo doesn't appear to have those colors, if thats the connector that goes into the transmisison you would need a wiring diagram from the Allante transmission to determine what colors match the 2 from the Fiero harness. The other wires left over aren't used and can be taped together or cut off and cover up to prevent moisture from getting in. The pdf I sent marked C has this information regarding the colors.
when you have time take a picture of the connection on transmission above the modulator and a closer pic of the tv cable going into the trans. also seems like the water pipe should be a lot closer to the modulator if the trans is bolted to the cradle. maybe it's not bolted down yet.
The transmission is a GM rebuilt trans, and does not have that label on it. I had checked the pan info before. It only has 19 bolts instead of 20. Pans are also shaped different for the E. Also if you look at Ryan Hess' thread his "E" trans has no kickdown cable. Even the chart referenced above shows that no "E" transmission was available for any Cadillac Allante. Everything appears to be correct on this tranny, except it has a 7 pin connector. I can open up the cover and look at the wiring, but I prefer not to. I'm feeling more confident it is the right transmission, but it has this one quirk.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-20-2014).]
The engine and tran are bolted to the cradle, but that water pipe is not supported and is just sitting there.
Jim
reason I bring it up is the standard modulator on these cars is really big and the write ups all seem to suggest that when hooked up the big modulator interferes with the coolant line so they suggest the smaller one. I put the smaller one on mine (bought it from a parts store) and it fit, but could see why the larger one may not.
interesting thought from Olejoedad on the allante transmission. He has forgotten more than I'll ever know about fiero's and swaps, he's a great resource. unfortunately this complicates the wiring. must be doable, just a different approach needs to be taken.
The car it came out of was a 1987 Allante with the 4.1 The trans was a GM replacement. Since the dash is digital, we could not check the mileage but the car was very clean and had a sticker saying the last oil change was at 80000. It drove all the way to the scene of the accident on the rear quarter. Anyway, the TV cable looks identical to the Fiero except much shorter and the Fiero TV bolted right in place of it. I am just not sure on the wiring since I wasn't expecting the 7 pin to be a problem and all previous swaps were 5 pin. I'd like to think it is the same as the 5 plus maybe a temp or pressure sensor that aren't needed in this application. Al
reason I bring it up is the standard modulator on these cars is really big and the write ups all seem to suggest that when hooked up the big modulator interferes with the coolant line so they suggest the smaller one. I put the smaller one on mine (bought it from a parts store) and it fit, but could see why the larger one may not.
I plan on buying the smaller one. what car model and year did you use when you bought the smaller one? I would rather go to an auto parts store rather than go back to the yard.
quite honestly I saw the part number on one of the 4T60 build threads and went to Oreillys with that number. I probably can look it up on my home computer tonight and find the thread with the part number if you need it. have you decided where to pull vacuum?
Well it appears that I am royally screwed. I just wasted a crap load of time, and a crap load of money for absolutely NOTHING. I am so mad and discouraged right now. Of course the Allante is the only car on the planet that has an electronically controlled 440T4 transmission with a kick down cable. I have no idea what I am going to do.
4.9 AND ecu, or or you just saying the ecu from a 4.9? Because if are saying buy a 4.9 engine, that is not really an option. This is my sons car and I was trying to put a 4 speed auto tran in it so it would get better gas mileage. I don't want, or need power, or torque. He has a decent commute and 20 mpg is not cutting it.
quote
See if the trans can be converted to standard configuration by changing parts....
Standard as in a regular 440T4? What more parts would I have to change?
wish I knew something that would help. wonder if an allante shop manual online would indicate that the extra wires aren't needed to run the transmission. 3 out of the 5 regular wires that are on a 4T60 aren't used. maybe the extra connections on the allante aren't used. I'm sure you've already thought whether the place you got it from would give you most of your money back on the allante in exchange for a regular 4T60? it wasn't their fault but maybe they'd still find a way to help.
wish I knew something that would help. wonder if an allante shop manual online would indicate that the extra wires aren't needed to run the transmission. 3 out of the 5 regular wires that are on a 4T60 aren't used. maybe the extra connections on the allante aren't used. I'm sure you've already thought whether the place you got it from would give you most of your money back on the allante in exchange for a regular 4T60? it wasn't their fault but maybe they'd still find a way to help.
Thanks for the kind sentiment Grant. I am still waiting to here back from Ryan at Sinister Performance (Darth Fiero ) one more time, to see if anything else can be done. If not, I will be headed back to the bone yard to pull another tran. It's my only option. I believe Pic N Pull will give me full credit on trade as I do have my receipt, but that totally waste my vacation time, and I will not have any, bulk of, free time until next spring. ( I work retail ) Maybe I can get it put back together by this weekend, but I had other stuff I needed to do, and it is supposed to rain the next 2 days. The wife is not going to be happy with a disassembled car in the driveway for a long period of time. Heck, I'm not happy with it.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-21-2014).]
I just completed a 4t60 swap in my fiero this summer and when I did mine I just spliced in the harness inside the transmission to the one from my 125... Hooked it up to the 4th gear pressure switch and it locks up in 3rd and 4th like it's supposed to....that way the factory harness just plugs in like normal with the 4 plug harness and doesn't have spliced up wires
Of course the Allante is the only car on the planet that has an electronically controlled 440T4 transmission with a kick down cable. I have no idea what I am going to do. 
