I just completed a 4t60 swap in my fiero this summer and when I did mine I just spliced in the harness inside the transmission to the one from my 125... Hooked it up to the 4th gear pressure switch and it locks up in 3rd and 4th like it's supposed to....that way the factory harness just plugs in like normal with the 4 plug harness and doesn't have spliced up wires
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not sure this would work, because my issue is that this is not a 440T4 or 4T60 transmission. It has been determined it is an electronically controlled F7 transmission that looks exactly like the 440T and 4T60 in every way except the 7 pin plug. I still have to come up with some way the "electronically" tell it to shift properly. A friend of mine, who understands these things better than I, says it's actually the up shifts that present the issue. It's all too confusing for me. I attempted this swap, because it was supposed to be relatively simple. It is not. I have learned a lot, and that's always good. The problem is, I really need this car on the road.
Jim, the swap is simple with the proper transmission. Its as close to bolt in and go as you can get. Key words.....proper transmission. Perhaps your misfortune will help someone else out down the line.
Jim, the swap is simple with the proper transmission. Its as close to bolt in and go as you can get. Key words.....proper transmission. Perhaps your misfortune will help someone else out down the line.
I hope so, but I would have rather have learned from someone else's mistake. Simple or not, dropping 2 transmission at the bone yard and installing twice at home in my driveway is time consuming. Time I really don't have.
Well I got word, this morning, from Darth Fiero this morning, this transmission is of no use to me. Everyone else take heed, DO NOT use a transmission from a Cadillac Allante!!! Even though it has 440T stamped on it and has a kickdown cable. IT WILL NOT WORK, because the shifts are controlled electronically. I have to take this one back off and head back to the yard.
Ummm. You should sell the Allante trans. Its rare and worth approx 2 of the regular 4t60 to the right buyer. Its a nice find especially unintentionally! Special gearing I believe and possibly beefier internals. Not alot of info out there on them though. Available in the 87-90 Allante only and all replacements are gone everywhere. Check the caddy forums and see if anyone needs one.
F7 Allante trans are very hard to find. Especially a factory replacement. You could PM stickpony. I believe he knows quite a bit about them.
While I'm here I would like to ask a question of the guru's. My dad installed a 4t60 out of a 90 cadillac deville. The problem is it will not shift back into first when coming to a stop. Anyone have any idea how to fix it? I've never done a swap myself and can't do much to help him.
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 10-22-2014).]
Ummm. You should sell the Allante trans. Its rare and worth approx 2 of the regular 4t60 to the right buyer. Its a nice find especially unintentionally! Special gearing I believe and possibly beefier internals. Not alot of info out there on them though. Available in the 87-90 Allante only and all replacements are gone everywhere. Check the caddy forums and see if anyone needs one.
F7 Allante trans are very hard to find. Especially a factory replacement. You could PM stickpony. I believe he knows quite a bit about them.
I know a little bit about them but only seen one once in a boneyard.. i know they came with a unique overall final drive: 3.21:1, but not sure about the internal gearing beyond that. i would assume 1-4 is the same as the 4t60e... ... i dont remember if it has a TV cable or not... the best place to research it would be the cadillac forums. It is stronger than the standard 4t60 for sure...
I know a little bit about them but only seen one once in a boneyard.. i know they came with a unique overall final drive: 3.21:1, but not sure about the internal gearing beyond that. i would assume 1-4 is the same as the 4t60e... ... i dont remember if it has a TV cable or not... the best place to research it would be the cadillac forums. It is stronger than the standard 4t60 for sure...
It would have been nice to have had this trans work, but I imagine that would require the computer from the donor car (which is long gone from the yard) and making a new harness. Not likely coming from me, but all is good. I am headed back to the yard today, to look for the correct one.
Well my trials and tribulations continue, but its all good. I first found out that I could not return my Allante tran, it was only good for the core. OK, my fault. Then after walking the yard I found one in an 87 Buick LeSabre with 125k. It was the lowest of all of them in the yard. Here's where I learn another lesson.
After unbolting, every bolt, and cutting every wire, I supported the engine with the hoist and started on the cradle bolts. BIG MISTAKE DOING THIS LAST. I should have checked that these would come out first. I would have saved myself a ton of time. I loosened 3 bolts and then the 4th gave me issues, I broke 3 sockets, and one extension, on this bolt. I gave up on this one and headed to an auto parts store to buy replacement sockets. When I returned, I moved on to the next tran.
The next tran had 165k miles, but it came out relatively easy, after I checked the cradle bolts first this time. I had a small issue getting it out from under the car, by myself, but I did it. Tomorrow, I put it on my cradle, and hopefully get it back in the car.
Ok guys I got the tran in and it is running, but I have a few small issues.
1. The gear shift has to go all the way to 1 to be in drive. R=N, N=in between D, & 2. I would imagine this has to do with the gear selector on the transmission being too long. I used the one the transmission came with. Do I use the Fiero one, or do I need to shorten the one that is on there?
2. How do I adjust the TV cable?
Other than those 2 things, and having to add maybe another quart of Tran fluid, I think I am done.
Jim, the swap is simple with the proper transmission. Its as close to bolt in and go as you can get. Key words.....proper transmission. Perhaps your misfortune will help someone else out down the line.
In your opinion what would be the "proper transmission"? With so many possibilities how about a definitive make/model that is known to work? Wow. And again, wow! What trans did you settle on? And to think I'm thinking about tearing apart a perfectly running car................OMG!
In your opinion what would be the "proper transmission"? With so many possibilities how about a definitive make/model that is known to work? Wow. And again, wow! What trans did you settle on? And to think I'm thinking about tearing apart a perfectly running car................OMG!
The 440T4 or the 4T60 is the proper transmission. What happened to me is I actually got an F7 instead of the two fore mentioned. That is why I had issues. My frustration was having to go to the yard twice, and having to install it twice. It really is simple, but there are still some mods that require minor welding, and that could be a deal breaker for some people. It was not for me. I had a friend do the welding, but I have a welder, and would have attempted it myself if I had to. I have zero experience, but there has to be a first time.
Did you mod the selector lever? You have to cut and weld it. Should be 1" 1/8 total length on the selector lever. The one I did worked perfectly. To get it in first it was one notch below 1. How did you do the cable to get it at the right angle.
Did you mod the selector lever? You have to cut and weld it. Should be 1" 1/8 total length on the selector lever. The one I did worked perfectly. To get it in first it was one notch below 1. How did you do the cable to get it at the right angle.
For the bracket that holds the selector cable, I cut the bracket and drilled new mounting holes like it said in some of the installation threads. As far as the gear selector goes, there was so much reading, I either missed, or forgot this part. Upon reading some of the info again last night, I caught the part about cutting the gear selector, so that's coming off today, and getting shortened. I also found info in the Haynes manual about TV cable adjustment. After fixing these 2 things, I should be able to take the car for a drive this afternoon. I'm going to keep it local for a week, and see if any issues pop up. If not, I will take the car to work for a week or two. I work 35 miles away, so I should be able to get some decent mpg readings. Then I'll hand it back over to my son. 30 mpg, here we come.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-26-2014).]
The shorter select arm is on. I had to adjust the cable because it would not go back into park, but now the shifter lines up with P, R, N and D better than it did before I started this mess. I have filled it with about 9 quarts of fluid, and at this point it drives very nicely. Much smoother shifts than the 3 speed. I still think the shifts are slightly delayed, but I really have nothing to compare it to so I'm not sure. I'm going to drive it locally for a week or so, and keep checking the fluid. As I drive it, and it shifts more, I may need to add another 1/2 quart or maybe a full quart, but I can't imagine more than that.
I would like to thank everyone for their help, guidance, and patience through this. I wanted to take more pictures and document this a little better. However, when I had to change transmission because of the mistake I made, time became a pressing issue, and I had to focus more on getting it done. Thanks again.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-26-2014).]
I'm interested in knowing what vehicle the mount brackets came off. I'll keep my eyes on this thread. Good write up so far. Keep it up
There are numerous cars they can come off of. Mine came off a Buick Century, I believe it was an 89. However, they were on the 92 Olds cutlass Calais I ended up getting the trans off, and I saw them on an 87 Buick Riviera I tried to get a tran out of. I have an extra front bracket, and I will take a picture of, and compare it to a Fiero bracket. The front brackets are almost the same except for the thickness. That is why you can't use the Fiero bracket. It causes the tran to sit too high in the front.
I took her for a drive today. About 30 miles, mostly highway. Nice and smooth at highway speeds, although it may not be shifting into 4th soon enough, not sure. Runs at about 2,500 rpm's at 60 mph. I say about, because my Tach has the issue where it doubles the rpm's and it was reading about 5,000 rpm's. Does 2500 at 60 mph sound about right?
One issue is it down shifts kinda hard when coming to a stop. This makes me think I do not have the TV cable adjusted properly or is there an adjustment to the kick down cable itself?
Second issue is I have a slight leak in the trans pan. Since it came from the bone yard, it was punctured and filled with a rubber plug. They did a sloppy job and the plug leaked, so we welded the hole back up, and let it sit for an hour and it didn't leak. I guess when warm, and under pressure, it didn't hold up. I need to find and unblemished pan. I couldn't find one at Summit racing. Does anyone else know of a source to find a replacement pan? Does Advance, or NAPA carry something like that?
There are a couple of oil pans on ebay right now. To get the 4t60 I did to shift right I had to adjust the TV cable all the way out and work it back in from there.
[This message has been edited by hiwil88formula (edited 10-28-2014).]
I still need to play with the TV cable. The release button is tough to push in. I'm not sure if I am even pushing it in at all. On the bright side though, I may have solved the kick down issue. The cable, at the throttle end was not in that grooved track. I don't know if it popped out on it's own, or I never had it installed correctly in the first place. I found some pans on the net for around $30, not including shipping, myself. However, I called Advance, and they have them for $39, no shipping, so I will just get one there. That is not a pressing issue at the moment.
Well I think i finally got my TV cable adjusted. the release button was just being a b***h. After I got it adjusted, the hard downshift disappeared. I'm hoping after i take it back on the interstate maybe the RPM's will be lower while cruising at 60 or 70.
First tank of gas report = 22 mpg. Better than the 16-17 he was averaging, but still really not good enough. I am running at about 1800 rpms at 60 mph, and 2000 rpm's at 70 mph. Another issue that may be hurting my mpg is the cat. I am getting a loud rattle out of the exhaust. This started after I put everything back together from this swap. I feared I had dropped something down the exhaust during the swap. Now I am thinking the cat is clogged and some pieces have broken off and are rattling inside. Am I correct that a clogged cat would hinder MPG? Any thoughts or idea's are appreciated. Thanks.
Is the cat the original or a replacement? I've had 2 original cats come apart & do the rattle thing. Actually, 16 to 17 seems low right from the start. All three of my stock V6 Fieros would average right about 22 with the original transmissions (auto 3 & 4spd). Of course, the type driving you are doing makes a difference, mine was typically pretty well split between highway and city.
BR's,
Mark
------------------ 86 SE V6 4 speed 86 SE V6 Auto 2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe 2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous 2001 Olds Silhouette (AKA The Band Van)
Is the cat the original or a replacement? I've had 2 original cats come apart & do the rattle thing. Actually, 16 to 17 seems low right from the start. All three of my stock V6 Fieros would average right about 22 with the original transmissions (auto 3 & 4spd). Of course, the type driving you are doing makes a difference, mine was typically pretty well split between highway and city.
BR's,
Mark
I have no idea if the cat is original. I will say it doesn't look bad from the outside, but it's what is inside that concerns me. I agree that 16-17 is too low to begin with. That was from mostly city driving though. I had gotten 19 at best with strictly highway driving from the 3 speed auto. Now with the 4 speed auto I am told that 30 mpg is not out of the question, so I am trying to find out what is keeping from approaching that. This first tank, after the swap, that delivered 22 mpg was 90% highway, so I have other issues. I'm trying to narrow it down now. I don't mind paying the $111 for Rodney's cat, if I need it. However, I don't want to buy it if it's not necessary either. It's my son's car so "Budget" is the key word, and the only reason we did this swap. He can't afford to just throw money at it. Thanks.
If the cat is rattling its probably a good idea to replace it anyway. I've heard tale of a disintegrating cat clogging the muffler. Might want to start a new thread on the cat subject? I may be doing the 4T60 swap myself soon.
Does it rattle when sitting in the driveway, or only under load when driving? Rattle could be any number of things, only one of which is the cat. Could be an exhaust leak, missing hanger/spring, or slight misalignment in the exhaust.
Are there any codes flashing the check engine light? Noticed any other issues? Clogged cat should be noticeable from sound and exhaust flow at the tips, even when sitting in the driveway.
Does it rattle when sitting in the driveway, or only under load when driving? Rattle could be any number of things, only one of which is the cat. Could be an exhaust leak, missing hanger/spring, or slight misalignment in the exhaust.
Are there any codes flashing the check engine light? Noticed any other issues? Clogged cat should be noticeable from sound and exhaust flow at the tips, even when sitting in the driveway.
Loud when sitting and under load. Had been quiet when cruising, but now is noisy then also, but not as loud as when accelerating.
I had mentioned before, but maybe in another thread. All springs are present and accounted for, and the one broken hanger has been repaired. No change.
I got a code 44 once when I first restarted the engine, after completing the swap. However, it had not returned, after about 200 miles of driving.
You can cut the cat out to check it, and if it is fine, use a clamp/wrap kit to re-install if you don't want to weld it back in, if it's fine. If it's the original, though, the cat itself is probably empty, and if the muffler is clogged, you'd need to replace the muffler (and the cat too, ideally).
Ok, thinking out loud here a little bit. If I'm being stupid, slap me down. The connection between the Y-Pipe and the down pipe no longer has the spring around the connecting bolts. It never has since we got the car. Is that spring necessary? Does that allow for some type of flex, and breathing that is needed?
I just got the opportunity to get under the car again. I banged on it and I have to say I don't hear anything out of the ordinary. Just me hitting metal with a rubber mallet. I even ran a big magnet along all the pipe to see if I get hear anything metallic drag along with it. No go. I did find a hole on the driver side of the muffler. It's about the size of a BB, maybe smaller. I can't imagine it being big enough to make this much noise. It's looking more and more like I am going to have to start throwing money at it. This is the worst part of working on cars...diagnosis.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 11-02-2014).]
FYI, 86 SE, 2.8/4 SPD manual, 27 mpg, mix of interstate and stop & go driving. With the 4 speed auto on interstate 30 should be doable. The RPM at MPH is right on since your tranny change. Biggest factor on fuel mileage is how hard you push with your right foot......
I too am in the process of doing this swap. I recently took my '86 GT out on a road trip to "Cruz'n the Coast" in Mississippi. That road trip is what convinced me to do this swap. My 4T60 is out of a '90 Olds Toranoda. what I have not seen or noticed in all these posts is the electrical pin out of the shift connector?
I too am in the process of doing this swap. I recently took my '86 GT out on a road trip to "Cruz'n the Coast" in Mississippi. That road trip is what convinced me to do this swap. My 4T60 is out of a '90 Olds Toranoda. what I have not seen or noticed in all these posts is the electrical pin out of the shift connector?
You will have to click on the links. I don't remember which one it's in, but they are there. Wire coloring will be different depending on the car you get the transmission out of, but essentially the same. For example, the wire coloring on the plug of your Tornado will be different than the wires from mine, which came from a Cutlass Ciera. In fact all my buddy did on mine was use the plastic cap/plug that held the wires together, and transferred it to the Fiero wires, replacing it's cap/plug. No splicing was done.
Well 2 tanks of gas have delivered approximately 22 mpg. A bad muffler has been replaced and it sounds pretty, but I must say I am disappointed in these results. If this is normal, I don't think I would have done this swap. It was mentioned I could expect 30 mpg. I really won't get a return on the investment at 22 mpg. The last thing I have to do is replace the kick down cable with Rodney's. However, that won't give me improved mpg. I am replacing it because there is a slight kink in ours, and it is slow to shift back down to first sometimes. I'm still glad I did this though. The experience was invaluable, and that's really my return on investment. Thanks again for everyone's help, and hopefully this thread will help others in the future.
Simple or not, dropping 2 transmission at the bone yard and installing twice at home in my driveway is time consuming. Time I really don't have.
When I returned, I moved on to the next tran.
I had a small issue getting it out from under the car, by myself, but I did it. Tomorrow, I put it on my cradle, and hopefully get it back in the car.
