Hey guys I have a few questions. My sons 86GT w/ the 3 speed auto doesn't get great mpg. About 20 on the highway. He will be doing some heavy commuting for his first semester of college. I was wanting to swap a 4 speed auto in for him. I have a couple questions.
Is 4t60 the correct number of what I am looking for? Yes, the 440T4 is also the same and will work If so what kind of mpg should I expect with it, is it worth it? If 34 is the answer to the first question, then the answer to the second one is definitely Yes! Do I need to change axles, Yes, or saying modify is a little more accurate.There are also "out of the box' options. See part #'s in this thread. or have an adapter plate? No Will the car use the same cables, or do I need the ones from the donor car? I'm still a little unclear on this. after reading the article Phonedawgz posted, I'm thinking I use the Fiero cables with a little mounting modification What cars are donors for this transmission? 84-89 Cutlass Ciera, Chevy Celebrity, Buick Century, Pontiac 6000 Any others? DO NOT USE ANY TRANSMISSION FROM A CADILLAC ALLANTE!!! SEE THREAD FOR WHY. Is there anything I am missing or is there a better option? The 4t60 will need a vacuum line T'd in somewhere for vacuum modulation and there will need to be some transmission mount adjustment on the rear mount, although Fiero mounts are used, but not mount brackets. Also need a governor cap
FWIW, a manual tranny swap is not an option, so don't suggest it. (that would be my choice ) Thanks guys.
Jim
{I'm editing answers in red as they come.}
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-25-2014).]
there's another 4t60 thread that was done by Karl Hamilton on the space coast fiero website but it doesn't load any longer for some reason. I saved it and can email it to you if you'll pm me your email address. It's a really good article on how to do it.
I had it in my 86 GT with a 3.4 before I sold it to buy a 3800SC. definately worth the trouble. with the 2.8 probably need to be a little cautious with gearing. something out of a delta 88 will have 2.84 gearing, great for driving on flat highways and great on mileage. but would probably bog down up a hill with a 2.8. 3.06 would be better, maybe even a 3.33. might not get 34 more like 30 but it would accelerate better. the first 4T60 I put in was a 91 delta 88 (turned out to be a bit weak) replaced it with a lumina 4T60 with a shift kit. that was a nice trans. firm shifts without being too firm and better acceleration.
------------------ 1986 Fiero GT fastback SC3800 3.4 pulley, LS1 TB 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with "big boy" 5.9 motor 1983 Honda Goldwing 1100 Interstate
there's another 4t60 thread that was done by Karl Hamilton on the space coast fiero website but it doesn't load any longer for some reason. I saved it and can email it to you if you'll pm me your email address. It's a really good article on how to do it.
From memory, the 4T60 swap requires: 1 Two Different Axles 2. transmission mount brackets 3. adaptation of the trans select lever and cable 4. rewiring of the torque converter clutch and the transmission itself.
There is no doubt that this trans swap will increase gasoline mileage and improve drivability.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by jimbolaya: What cars are donors for this transmission? 84-89 Cutlass Ciera, Chevy Celebrity, Buick Century, Pontiac 6000 Any others?
Great list Dobey. That opens the pool of possibilities quite a bit. Thanks. I had scanned PNP online and they did not have any of the first 4 cars I mentioned. I know they have some of those on your list..
On the 4t60 HD, I am assuming HD stands for heavy duty. Is it still an option for the swap?
Jim
HD means it has the stronger diff. It is certainly an option. However, it's not necessary for the 2.8. And you'll want to pay attention to the gear ratios in the trans you find. I think the HD versions have a different ratio that might not be as great for MPG (I don't have a list of what all the available ratios were, though).
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
I got a 440T4 F7 from a Cadillac Allante. It was a replacement transmission, because it had a GM sticker on it saying so. Apparently replaced under warranty. I got the vacuum modulator, and governor cap, but we could not get the axles out. They were just too rusted. We did get the tripot shell part at the transmission, but only the shell the part that goes in the tranny. We couldn't get the spider part, (inner gears.) Will the shell work with the spider part on the Fiero axle, or did I need the entire part? I know those terms are bad. I'll post a picture when I get a chance. The best part of all this is we finally got the, 2nd gen, headlight motors off a 89 Firebird. His car is almost complete.
Jim
Edit: Follow the thread to find out why I changed the transmission name.
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-25-2014).]
We did get the tripot shell part at the transmission, but only the shell the part that goes in the tranny. We couldn't get the spider part, (inner gears.) Will the shell work with the spider part on the Fiero axle, or did I need the entire part? I know those terms are bad. I'll post a picture when I get a chance.
Jim
In case this got lost in the middle of that post. I could use this question answered. Thanks.
Possibly too small. You won't know until you get all of the parts together to assemble the axle. I usually keep the tripot, rollers and spider from the donor. But, you may be all right and it will all fit just fine.
Possibly too small. You won't know until you get all of the parts together to assemble the axle. I usually keep the tripot, rollers and spider from the donor. But, you may be all right and it will all fit just fine.
Cool, I have to get a Fiero axle from a manual transmission to do the passenger side, so I will know if it fits, or not then. I can probably go back and get the other stuff, now that I know it's held in by a c clip. After a long day of tussling with the engine and transmission in a junkyard, I had enough, and evac'd. Thanks for the help
I just thought of this though. Are all passenger side, standard transmission axles, the same size? When I buy an axle, do I specify 4 speed muncie, 5 speed isuzu, or the 5 speed getrag? Just wondering.
Side for side, all OEM Fiero manual trans axles are the same. Specify a CARDONE remanufactured axle if you order from the parts store. They use GM cores.
Fiero sound gave me part #'s of some cardone axles that will work right out of the box, no assembly required. I think Im going that route.
Here are the axle part numbers A1 CARDONE PN 601078 - LEFT side drive axle (21-inches long overall) A1 CARDONE PN 601115 - RIGHT side drive axle (26.25-inches long overall)
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 09-20-2014).]
I dropped the cradle yesterday in preparation for swapping out the transmission. Hopefully in a couple of weeks i'll have this done and will be able to report some mileage numbers. I'll take some pics along the way also. I'm only doing a little bit at a time because of work and family. I imagine if I wanted to, I could do all this in a day, 2 at the most, but I don't want to.
I dropped the cradle yesterday in preparation for swapping out the transmission. Hopefully in a couple of weeks i'll have this done and will be able to report some mileage numbers. I'll take some pics along the way also. I'm only doing a little bit at a time because of work and family. I imagine if I wanted to, I could do all this in a day, 2 at the most, but I don't want to.
Jim
Drive it to the Fall Classic when you get it back on the road. Should be a nice test for MPG.
Well this is going slower than I would like, but doesn't it always with a Fiero? I got the old tran off, but I just could not get the 4t40 on by myself. I just couldn't get it lined up. It's also sprinkling, so instead of doing something stupid like breaking off the input shaft, I'll wait for reinforcements. That means I will not get this back together until next week on my vacation. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. At least I tried. Anybody got any tips for doing this by yourself?
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-12-2014).]
Took some messing with different locations on the trans but I used the engine hoist. Doesn't work well unless axles are in or no fluid in the trans. Does take some shaking and baking but all of a sudden it's in.
We got the tranny on the engine, but have come against a few obstacles. 1 is the mounts. It wasn't quite what, I thought, I understood. Secondly is the the governor cap. Another trip to the yard is necessary, but I now have a better understanding of what I need. Pics, questions and details coming shortly.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-17-2014).]
First issue, the governor cap. The one with my 4T40, was the wrong one. The photos below will show the difference.
The governor cap on the left is off the Fiero. It will not mount onto the 4T40. Holes do not match and it will not sit flush to the tranny anyway. The one on the right (installed) does fit, however it will not work because the gear inside is metal, and spins magnetically. Unlike the Fiero gear, which is a plastic gear, and is gear driven like our headlight motors. Easy fix. I just go back to the yard and find one, off a 4T40 or 4T60 that looks like the Fiero Governor, but is a little taller. The visual comparison helped me understand exactly what I am looking for now.
Second issue, are the mounts. Once again, visual examination helps a lot here, as I was not understanding the explanation. Because of the misunderstanding, on my part, of what a mount exactly is. You do use Fiero "mounts," however, you do not use Fiero "brackets". Nor do you use the brackets off the donor car of the transmission. I took the brackets off the donor Allante, and they did not work. The confusion was I was thinking brackets and mounts were "all in one", and they are not. I need to return to the yard and find the appropriate "brackets". This will be somewhat of a treasure hunt considering, I do not know what car they come off of. Whoever originally did the write up on mounts, got the brackets out of a parts bin, and did not know what car they came from.
A few pictures: Rear mount area, wider angle, and then close up.
Front mount, wider angle, and then close up.
Passenger side cone mount area, wider angle, and then close up. this mount/bracket will need some welding and modification to work. the cone is longer on teh 4T40, than the Fiero, so it did not line up properly.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-17-2014).]
) Thanks guys.
LOL. I'm assuming you mean the 3 rollers on each end, inside that tripot. Are you saying the Fiero ones might be too big, or too small?
