some pictures of my "new" sunroof headliner. the back: the front: the part i messed up: overall it went well, and if i ever do it again i'll be more careful.
[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 11-12-2003).]
A little trick to doing the sunroof cutout... after you install the headliner, cut out the opening and be sure theres is at least 2-3 inches of extra all around. Install the rubber retaining strip, Then go around the outside edge of the strip with a razor blade to trim off the excess. Remove the rubber strip, tuck the excess up and reinstall the rubber.
Theogre has a nice right up on them in his cave (link at the top of page) but I haven't done mine yet. I have plans but just haven't had the time. You could go first this time lurker.
I have been doing GM glue up headliners for years, and have always had great success using 3M Super Trim Adhesive. DO NOT use the general trim adhesive or you will be doing it over (ask how I know). I have done everything from Trans Ams to wagons and Blazers. The harsest part is getting the liner out of the car without breaking it on some models. Must have gone in before the glass.
VIsors have to be sewn. Unless you have a heavy duty sewing machine you wont be able to. Auto upholstery shop did both of mine for $20 in black naugahyde. I took them the material.
VIsors have to be sewn. Unless you have a heavy duty sewing machine you wont be able to. Auto upholstery shop did both of mine for $20 in black naugahyde. I took them the material.
Today I finished my own headliner adventures. Sure I have a convertible ) But I'm working on 2 other cars: My 3800 racer, and my mechanic's GT, which has a sunroof.
First, I dont know how to avoid breaking the sunroof headliners. I had to drop it down to get at some of the sunroof stuff, and left it propped on the top of the headrests and dash. The next week I found it in 6 pieces, just from the sagging of gravity. So to me, that says everyone should *always* reinforce their sunroof headliners when they take them out, even if its not broken yet. Here's a picture of what I did:
This headliner came out of one of my parts cars. Just sitting around it got broken in two pieces. I put down a couple layers of ordinary fiberglass and gobbed the resin on there. The fiber-board soaks it up, so if you can, get a gell type resin. Now you'll never have to worry about breaking the headliner when you reinstall it etc.
Now for my experiments...
On my car's headliner (no sunroof) I elected to lay a layer of fiberglass over the entire surface that the new material was to stick to. It made sense to me, since the fiber-board seems to be the weak link in the headliner problems. I imagine the very tiny and short strands of fiberglass just pull out easily. Some people may blame the glue, and indeed some glue may be to blame, but I just dont trust this fiber-board's strength. It took a whole afternoon to lay the fiberglass layer. It takes about $10-15 dollars worth of resin, and a few bucks worth of glass to do a headliner without the sunroof. After I had finished, I trimmed the edges with a razor blade before it got too hard. Then I let it sit for the week. Next I took a 40 grit bondo-buster and DA sander to it and knocked it as flat as reasonably possible. Once that was done, I filled the remaining holes with a thin layer of ordinary body filler (bondo) and sanded it flat. Then I wiped it down with some thinner to make sure it was super clean. Here's a picture:
Its a little heavier now that it has that thin layer of glass on it. But its very durable and I believe the glue will truely stick to it now. We'll see. I will update this link if I have problems.
The other headliner, with the sunroof, was treated a little differently. Covering the whole headliner with fiberglass is a lot of work, and grinding it down gets little bits of glass in your arms to itch. So for this headliner, I decided to simply use the resin and skip the glass. I painted tons of resin onto the underside of the headliner. My thinking is that it will bind those weak little strands of glass together and keep them from pulling out. I'm sure the glue will stick better to it than it would the raw dry fibers, and since the sunroof model doesnt have the indentations that put a lot of stress on the material, I think this will be a great fix. Time will tell. I will of course, report back if I see any problems this summer.
I got my materials for both headliners (order one yard each-- it comes in 52 inch wide rolls) at an upholstery supplier in Salt Lake for $5.50 per yard. The upholstery retail shops want $15.00 dollars per yard for the same stuff, and most dont keep it in stock.
I used a $5.00 can of TAC-IT "Neoprene Contact Upholstery Adhesive" from Alchemco. Its supposed to be very heat tollerant and is meant to glue foam headliners. I'm sure I wont see the same problems some of the others in the forum have seen with their glue choices (crossing fingers). Its a spray glue in a white can.
Spray a nice even layer on the headliner fiber-board, and a nice even layer on the material. Then get 2 friends to hold the material up and get it aligned. Have the friends hold the material vertically and get the back edge of the headliner started once its all aligned. Have them slowly lower the headliner material down as you press the material down with the palm of your had (dont use fingers--- may press the glue into the foam, leaving a permanent dent). Work forward from the back, paying attention not to create wrinkles (meaning keep from working from the edges-- work from the middle out).
Once you've got the headliner material glued down, flip it over and spray more glue on both the edge of the fiber-board and the foam so that, once it tacks off, you can wrap it up and over. Here's a picture:
You could also start the trimming at this point. I've noticed it takes a lot more material to wrap around than you might expect, so leave at least a good 1 1/2 or 2 inches of material to work with. Never trim all the way to any of the edges. And dont cut any of the sunroof material out until you have it in the car and can work with that rubber trim piece.
Here's a picture of the finished product:
Of course, read the "recovering headliner" link at the fiero.nl home page and all the other links for hints and ideas. Good luck!
Thanks for the compliments. I messed up a bit, though.. The headliner trim wasn't on the car when I got it, and the headliner was pretty beat up (three pieces). Not knowing any better, I glued the suede to the headliner backing board around the sunroof opening! The board is pretty stiff so I may not need the suspension there. If it droops too much, I have enough scrap around to glue another strip around the back of the opening to put into the trim strip groove.
is there any other way of getting the foam off without using a wire brush? Is there any laquer or thinner or something that i could use? ive never fiberglassed b4 so i dont wanna crack the headliner.
I just used a stiff bristle brush like a bathroom brush. It didn't take uch scrubbing to get it off so I didn't break any fibre glass.
As an update to the adhesive part, the Super 77 finally gave way to the point that I pulled it out an redid it with contact cement. Let's see how long that lasts.
is there any other way of getting the foam off without using a wire brush? Is there any laquer or thinner or something that i could use? ive never fiberglassed b4 so i dont wanna crack the headliner.
I've found that rubbing the board VERY LIGHTLY with steel wool will do a good job of taking off the old foam. You can get into the curves a lot better than with a brush.
is this cement ok? i looked everywhere for 3M trim adheasive but i cant find it has anyone used this stuff? can i trust it? (FYI im recovering with vinyl) Mastercraft all purpose contact cement best on leather, metal, plastic laminates, rubber, wood heres a pic i know u love the bling bling escalade
I bought a 84 with no headliner board in it, thus, the 2 clips that hold the board up in the back are also missing. I have a board, but still need the clips. Can someone tell me what they look like? Maybe post a pic of these clips? Thanks. And-great work on all these jobs. Good writeups.
I think they're the same type of plastic clips used on the A-pillar trim. They're also used on the rear bulkhead panel. If you don't get anything by the end of the day, PM me and I'll snap a pic once I get home.
I'm pretty sure you could substitute standard GM door panel clips, the serrated-looking push-in type.
Did mine along time ago, but you still get a "+" from me for a good detailed write up. Taking the time to take the pictures and give an explination how how the job is done that is the least that I could do for all your efforts, your end results look great.
I think they're the same type of plastic clips used on the A-pillar trim. They're also used on the rear bulkhead panel. If you don't get anything by the end of the day, PM me and I'll snap a pic once I get home.
I'm pretty sure you could substitute standard GM door panel clips, the serrated-looking push-in type.
If that's the case, then I have it covered. Got quite a few of those, in different sizes laying about. I would just put coat hook up there, but the my 84 didn't come with them either, besides, I'd hit my head on them. Thanks.
so how many of you guys didn't bother putting the visors back in after finishing? I noticed that in the fiero i never used em and it looked so sharp with em removed... anybody other than 6'4" me?
I also put a layer of glass over the board on mine, and used the 8090 adhesive. It stiffened the board to a usable degree, gave a better surface for the adhesive, and enabled me to use a slightly heavier, grey denim-look fabric which almost perfectly matches the carpet. I decided to use the sun visors from the donor Eldorado (they have lighted mirrors) I got my 4.9 out of.
I'm glad this thread got dredged up again, I am adding it to my favorites :-)
I think I'm going to try something custom like Dodge did... probably flames and I might try two layers in different colors... or leave out the 3d effect and sew the two colors of cloth together first, then cover. Going to have to think about this a bit
I want flames on my 87 coupe headliner to go along with my flameball shift knob :-)
Yeah well I'm glad this got pushed up on the forum too. Because (cry) I have bad news on my headliner project. The frigging thing sagged again in the head humps! So obviously my glue choice was CRAP. Crap I say!
I've done headliners in a variety of cars over the past 6 years and always used 3M FoamFast 74 on the headliners that have a foam backside. People I know went the fast/cheap route and used different types of glue but they either got discolorations or it started to sag within a few months but I haven't had any problems with mine. My local car-upholstery shop recommended FoamFast and they've been restoring collector cars for 40 years. They also recommended 3M Fastbond 30 when applying vinyls on the internal door panels and on other hard surfaces.
I noticed all the comments about 3M Super77 adhesive. Well, I wouldn't trust it to hold up my headliner either. But I did try 3M Super90. The headliner has been in the car for almost 6 months now. It's held up so far.
This thread has been extremely helpful! Add us to the "been there, done the headliner" list. Our headliner was in pretty bad shape. After some patch work last year we decided to bite the bullit and to replace it with the Fierostore fiberglass version.
Both Master Tuner and Roger recommended using contact cement so that's what we did. We played around with both the DAP original and non-flammable formula. I was a bit concerned about having to lay the foam down perfectly the first time. By experimenting I found out that 1) Roger is absolutely correct, the non-flammable formula doesn't stick well at all and 2) the original formula will allow you to make subtle, minor adjustments if you do it gently yet quickly.
I am really glad this thread has been so helpful even though I made the mistake of using the wrong glue. At least no one else will do that after reading this. Thanks for kepping it alive.
Has anyone tried using 3m 8088? I had a can of 8090 in my hand today and directions said to not use 8090 on foam backed fabric and instead use 8088. I have 2 Fieros and one Saab 900 to do.
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) But I'm working on 2 other cars: My 3800 racer, and my mechanic's GT, which has a sunroof.
