a BumP would be nice, so i can find an answer. is it just a 6-6.5" piece of 4gauge braided wire with two metal circle things crimped on each end? btw, what are those circle things called that fit on the bolt?
Pballsniper, are you talking about the "circle things" on the wire? Those are crimp-on terminals, aka lugs. If you are talking about the "circle things" on bolts, those are called washers.
Hey, I'm doing this mod and looking at all this negative cable, grounding and all then I looked at the puny positive wire. The large cable goes directly to the starter and nowhere else. The smaller wire, and I mean smaller! goes to power ALL of the car's power. Doesn't that seem kind of a small wire with headlights, wiper, A/C on, cooling fan, etc all at the same time?? Am I missing something or would it be a good idea to run another positive wire to the fuse block? Whatcha think out there?
Hey, I'm doing this mod and looking at all this negative cable, grounding and all then I looked at the puny positive wire. The large cable goes directly to the starter and nowhere else. The smaller wire, and I mean smaller! goes to power ALL of the car's power. Doesn't that seem kind of a small wire with headlights, wiper, A/C on, cooling fan, etc all at the same time?? Am I missing something or would it be a good idea to run another positive wire to the fuse block? Whatcha think out there?
i ran a new 8 Ga. wire with no noticable improvment
I just wanted to chime in here and hopefully help out those of you yet to do this... I was meaning to get to this yesterday but it seems that braided ground wire is a rare commodity around here. Autozone, Parts America, Fleet Farm, and a local hardware store were all useless. If you have a Bumper to Bumper parts store nearby you can get it there. They didn't have the exact gauge or length but it was close and it was in stock so if you got one of those nearby you can save time searching. If not, the brand they sell is "Standard Motor Products" so that should at least aid in your search a bit. Anyway, I hope that helps someone... now I can see if the extra ground helps the car
*Edit to say there is definitely a noticeable improvement right from the start but how much improvement is yet to be seen since the next time I drive it will be Saturday. Right from the start tho it idles a helluva lot smoother than it did so that in itself is worth the whopping $3.50 in cash and 5 minutes in time. Also, the length of wire I got was actually 9 inches and it's a perfect fit. As a safety precaution I loosely suspended from the nearby wire loom to prevent it from drooping too close to the pulley/belt and getting snagged.
[This message has been edited by Damien (edited 03-27-2007).]
------------------ Fiero Thomas 85 Fiero GT 86 Fiero GT 88 Formula T-Top C+C # 1239 of 1252, Build Digit 26,224 of 26,402 NIFE Member Fiero News dot net
Cropduster, Adding a larger cable to the positve terminal is a trick we would use on our old 4x4's when we added lights, especialy if we could not afford a bigger alternator. It would decrease the resistance to the battery and provide a better charge, less resistance = less loss = more available amps. Also adding the better grounds would improve the electrical circuit. I did this to my toyota 4cyl stock alternator, big amp and lights before adding the bigger cable from the positive side of the alternator, ie battery connection on alt to the pos term on battery.Lights would dim when wheeling off road at night with other acessories wipers heater fan. It was not an end all miracle but it did help alot and was much cheaper than a larger alternator. My toyota was as old as my fiero is and this is a great mod basic and simple thanks Rich, many cudos Roger.
( BTW Radio shack normaly has the big cable and ring lugs I used the gold plated type like they use on high end audio it looks nice for twice the price he he )
[This message has been edited by RKSmallwood (edited 08-11-2007).]
Thanks for the bump for the newbs. I've been thinking about adding a ground to the dash to address the flickering voltage gauge and dancing speedo (car has a Dakota Digital speedo translator deal for use w/ a Baretta trans). Think I'll try this 1st.
One other thing worth mentioning:
quote
Originally posted by $Rich$:
ues, i should add that it helps in the long run to use the copper grease or i just use the clear electro cundictive grease, the same stuff you should be using on your plug wire boots
The grease used on spark plugs is dielectric grease which does NOT conduct electricity. It's used as an insulator to surpress arching and seal moisture out of the boot. The plug still fires because grease is scraped away from the connector when you push the wire onto the plug. I'd avoid using dielectric grease on a connection like a chassis ground.
There are 3 grounds in the engine area; the heaviest one connects the engine / trans to the frame. The point of attachment to the frame is a torx-headed post also used to secure a bracket that supports a line going to the vapor canister. In my case, this ground was VERY bad because the post had nearly fallen out. When I used a 13mm screw to secure the ground to the frame, it made an amazing difference. Perhaps you wanna check the condition of this ground on your car as well. The post seems to be a mighty poor choice of attachment, to me. Here's a description with pics:
Originally posted by Chad87FB: The grease used on spark plugs is dielectric grease which does NOT conduct electricity. It's used as an insulator to surpress arching and seal moisture out of the boot. The plug still fires because grease is scraped away from the connector when you push the wire onto the plug. I'd avoid using dielectric grease on a connection like a chassis ground.
You are right about dielectric grease being non-conductive, but why do you recommend avoiding it for chassis connections? You're also right about it being used to surpress arching and seal moisture out of spark plug boots, but I would consider it's main use to be keeping contacts from oxidizing.
You are right about dielectric grease being non-conductive, but why do you recommend avoiding it for chassis connections? You're also right about it being used to surpress arching and seal moisture out of spark plug boots, but I would consider it's main use to be keeping contacts from oxidizing.
You're trying to create a clean connection between the engine and chassis. Something that doesn't conduct electricity is the last thing I'd want between 2 flat connections like this. IMHO, it'd be better to make a nice clean connection then cover it with either paint or that red spray battery terminal sealer stuff (the technical term escapes me at the moment).
Of course without testing continuity with and without dielectric grease this is pure speculation.
just put mine on when i changed my oil and i think my windows might be a little faster (but i didnt really get to try it out, I only went around the corner).. but this has me inspired to start adding grounds and replacing my old ones. it does seem to idle a little smoother and the lights i think go up a little faster.
edit for i got mine from advance auto and it is just a small ground strap (like the one that goes to the decklid on the passenger side). should i have gotten a bigger one, does the size make a huge difference?
[This message has been edited by Acesurfer (edited 11-01-2007).]
rich wow holy crap what a change for the better thanks. just to let others know mine is a 85 v6 with 50,000 miles all of the electrical is just like new and this still helped in a big big way.
its good to see this thread going 4 years strong now it really does make a noticable differance, even in the clean low milage cars ill be adding some nice ones to my L67 car in the spring, and im going to put a few on my buick and see if it helps cure the slow windows in that aswell
its amazing it works in all vehicles with notacible results, its a big topic always on the bimmer forums witht he E36's have a factory trunk mount battery and it seems to help them guys out greatly
thanks for keepn the thread in circulation for all the new people that come and go
It's on the passenger side (on the right side of the motor) right above the water-pump. If you find the belts on the car you should be able to tell where it is from the 1st picture.
I spend a few hours tonight reading this whole thread, and am gonna see what AutoZone has, hopefully some 4ga + ring terms for not too much. AutoZone is all that is open overnight.
The Problem [a bit of history]: I got this car (86=GT,5spd) about a month ago and it had a high idle, the guy replaced tps, and a few others before I bought it and replaced the egr tube. Idle is down to 1100 but wavers 500-1000 every second, up and down.
I was reading all about vacuum leaks, replacing the map sensor, etc., nobody really sure with a definite answer to what the problem could be.
I am REALLY REALLY hoping this fixes it, from what I have read, and am hopeful because I notice a VERY slight change of overhead cabin-light aberration during the idle-hunt lowering, and the oil pressure flickers when that happens, and other various electrical-seeming problems.
WISH ME LUCK PLEASE ! =)
off i go
[This message has been edited by Kuta (edited 12-31-2007).]
At first the guy tried telling me they didn't have anything except 10ga in the "wire" section, then he stumbled into the power cables when he was talking about using jumper cables.
Each cable has a large ring @ the end, so some washers might be needed for chassis/egr bolt/strut connection.
I also got a "universal" side-post adapter which has 2 bolts on it for a clamp, but each bolt could be used with a ring-term, and a "side-post bolt extender" so I can use the factory battery terminal, in addition to the "universal", for extra cables off the Neg.
I'm gonna go over all the pics & notes I took again, have some breakfast, and by then the sun will be out so hopefully there is enough light to install the 3 cables (it's very foggy right now).
I probably won't get replies before I do the upgrade, and might be better off testing this on my own vehicle, however:
1. Is it better to connect the EGR-solenoid bolt directly to the battery, or daisy-chained with a cable from the bolt near the battery tray? 2. I notice $Rich$ might have changed his setup, from EGR->Neg & Chassis ->Neg (both direct connections into battery terminal). . . to: Egr->Chassis & Chassis->Neg with Deck-hinge->Neg (daisy chain + addl)
Is this correct? Was there reason for the change?
The Transmission->Block wire is connected well, but I'll clean it off anyway. The wire is still flexible, but small. If my 3-wires don't improve idle, I could get a long 4 gauge for the transmission to chassis, or directly to ground.
I really hope it does, though. Maybe I should replace that wire either way?
Possibly when the ECM relearns everything it will be better, but the idle is the same, right window so slow it's almost stuck, & everything else the same from what I can tell.
Would adding a strap from trans to chassis help, or replace the one from trans to block?
New battery?
It was worth a try, for $20.
/edit: i used a dremel to scrape ALL contact points, and existing grounds, down to bare metal. The only thing is that the longer battery bolt stripped when I cranked it down, so the batt grounds are only hand-tight. There is 100% contact, but there is not a lot of compression. Is that a problem? I can only think it might loosen, so I'll keep an eye on it.
[This message has been edited by Kuta (edited 12-31-2007).]
I've been dealing with large car audio setups for years now so I've known about this but its funny I never even thought about doing this to the fiero cause i'm not doing the audio system yet. Its funny what simple fixes we forget to try when trouble shooting an issue. My car has the slow windows and headlights like many others so we will see if this improves this when I do the mod.
+ for rich thanx for the reminder
------------------ S.A.R.S. Drive it like you stole it
I did do this to my wifes Fiero trying to fix another problem, the extra ground had a little noticeable difference, but as we had just replaced the grounds on the engine and the previous owner replaced all the other grounds in the car there was not a huge difference.
WOW, its amazing what a difference this makes. The blinker, wipers, windows and mirrors are all working much better. It idiles smoother and starts up easier. I cant wait to see if I get better MPG with this.
Just wanted to pop in here and commend you $Rich$ for an excellent contribution to all of us Fiero owners.
My thoughts are that you had some bean counter who decided that GM could save money in production costs with that itsy bitsy cheesy flexible ground strap. We see how well that worked out, 20 years later, they're brittle and nearly useless. The fact that the main power terminal, battery and the grounds are exposed to the elements does't help either.
I have come to know that you need good electrical connections so I'm good about maintenance with grounds, cables, straps and power terminals. The beauty of this thread is that the younger folks, and I was one too, can easily add a ground strap and solve many of difficulties associated with poor grounds even before they come to know about how electricity works in automobiles.
Thanks again $Rich$, you're great!
------------------ jetman Silver 86 SE 2M6 4-speed, with "check wallet light" Now fortified with 8 essential slices of bacon goodness
I use a two lead battery cable ground on my Fiero that attaches directly to both the chassis and to the engine. Haven't had a problem yet.
------------------ 87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
i now have a different fiero and i put one of the small straps from like advance auto on and i dont think that it made any difference. how big of a difference does the gauge matter?
Gonna read through the whole thread and see what else is hiding in here, but I wanted to let Rich know I gave him a +.
Thanks, I'll be doing this right after I pick up my Formula!
------------------ ~Michael Project IMSA Formula Coming Soon! '85 GT 4sp white - SOLD | | '85 2M6 Auto red - SOLD | | '84 2M4 bare chassis - SOLD Crap, I'm out of Fieros! Time to buy another!! - "Your mileage may vary."
Originally posted by Acesurfer: i now have a different fiero and i put one of the small straps from like advance auto on and i dont think that it made any difference. how big of a difference does the gauge matter?
not much. the contact surfaces must be clean - and - there maybe more problems areas to solve. battery cables grounds (+) distribution block they must all be good - power is a closed loop.
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