Hey, what happen to the video, on page 7? Anyone have a copy of it? My engine is built, pretty close to this one and I like listening to it, when I come to this thread.
For those looking for a 3800 exhaust flange try Exhaust Direct. Thats who we buy from.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Don't mind the intermediate pics that've since been uploaded, there's a final product waiting to go on the car when I get back tonite or in the morning.
Some cosmetics on the top side will be addressed once the header/exhaust work is complete. Parts are made and ready for things like N* TB swap, EGR block, etc.
Good on ya - just wanted to make sure people see the potential issue with these headers, and the need for a solution. I know you're going to get it there.
Intercooler pump is also replaced/moved down low, up front. That Bosch is ALOT quieter than the Flojet. (might even have to swap in one of my spare GM's for my GP's current Flojet)
Filled & bled the system, man is that "fun" on such a large route, but always worth it for volume/cooling benefit. Added an air bleeder hose to the IC radiator, to let the air out of the radiator for initial filling. We have to do this on a few types with GP's as well, such as the VW rad with no cap. In this case, the cap is unable to be removed for initial filling.
There's a few things that will be done in the next 2 days that check ALOT off the list. All the new stainless parts for exhaust are arriving soon, and will be installed as well (similar to the red engine's on pg. 3 here, but another Magnaflow muffler & all mandrel bends).
LOL - take a moment and pity my normal mechanic who tried to fill/bleed that system one afternoon BEFORE we realized that that old FloJet had given up the ghost.
Keep up the good work!
[This message has been edited by sabooo (edited 04-13-2009).]
Good looking headers but its seems that another trunk bites the dust!
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I'm hoping to save what's left. When I added the cat last year to get through my first round of PA emissions I had to sacrifice the bottom half of the trunk. I had 3 sides cut short, then folded the remaining side up to form the new bottom. It was all welded, then the carpet cut to fit. Half a trunk is better than none.
Fresh all-stainless exhaust pieces arrived yesterday, to get trimmed & rotated before TIG welding together. Should come out nice, we'll find out in the next 12-24hrs as the car goes back in the air for the last time.
3" mandrel U-bend from header outlet, 3" to dual 2.5" F-body magnaflow, 2.5" mandrel L-bends, stainless hangers, C6 Vette tips
Supercharger, TB, fuel rail, vac line setup came out great... pics will be available later tonight.
- Dave
------------------ '98 Daytona GTP - MP112 & ZZP I/C (warming up before a RWD 3800SC build) back in '06 - 333.5whpSAE - 12.73 @ 111mph (street tires) GenV, XP, 9.4:1, stock heads, non-I/C Admin of CNY3800 http://geocities.com/dezldave961/
And in case anyone is interested, that take off exhaust is for sale. Full Stainless, Magnaflow muffler and Cat, Hooker Dual Exit exhaust tips. Will require the same sort of trunk mod I had done, or trunk removal to fit it in. A bolt up solution to your 3800 swap exhaust concerns. I will start a mall thread once I have it back in my posession, but until then PM if interested.
Just a bit of detail on the other mods - If you've read all of this, you know that Golden86 had mounted the IC pump in the trunk well. What this did was force the pump to "push" the entire circuit - downhill through the IC, then down to the radiator at the front of the car, then continue pushing uphill all the way back up to the rear corner where it would hit the pump again. I replaced the spent pump and had Dave install it nearer to the bottom of the system, so that the return got a bit of help from gravity, which should help to minimize any dry running of the pump caused by air hiding in the system.
The fuel rails were a bit of an eyesore on this car. There were stock series 2 fuel rails, but an attempt had been made in the past to paint them black to improve the appearance. This probably worked, but the paint had started failing awhile back and needed to be either stripped, or redone. Chose to replace them instead. Not sure of the exact details on this, except that Dave had permission to spend money to make them look better.
Northstar TB installed in an attempt to quiet the intake a bit, and increase the lung capacity of the car.
Added some dressy/shiny hardware to the supercharge to replace the industrial hardware in place. All for show, doesn't help the go.
There was also a Vacuum line that had to be redone.
All back together. Would've posted last night, but the aluminum-colored engine enamel was drying before putting the last trinkets back on.
Might take a vid of the open header sound tonight, just to make you guys think a Big Block is actually hiding in there, before we finish the full exhaust tomorrow.
Then, it'll be time to put some tuning miles on it & make sure all the minor details are back in place before Sabooo is off to PA with it.
- Dave
------------------ '98 Daytona GTP - MP112 & ZZP I/C (warming up before a RWD 3800SC build) back in '06 - 333.5whpSAE - 12.73 @ 111mph (street tires) GenV, XP, 9.4:1, stock heads, non-I/C Admin of CNY3800 http://geocities.com/dezldave961/
Small update - Exhaust should be getting finished up in the next day or so. Then Friday and Saturday for tuning. Once that's finished up, I'll pick it up Sunday morning, make a run over to Watkins Glen for a few hours to watch the festivities, then head home. Expect a full photo splash once I have it back in PA.
What's next, you ask? This summer should see:
-Mr. Mikes seat covers. Tried for Leather, but leatherette it is. They look fantastic, let's hope I dont knacker the install too badly. -Fiero1Fan headlamp bucket swap with Xerces lamps and harness -Removal of window tint, replacement of sail panels. -Replacement of head unit -and hopefully an f40 swap, which may include a Quaife LSD if the budget allows.
(edit: Woohoo - 30k views)
[This message has been edited by sabooo (edited 04-23-2009).]
New fully stainless exhaust for stainless SSAC headers (with wideband O2 bung):
The previous setup for the manifolds was great, but Rich & I didn't want to chop it apart if we could manage a fresh one for the headers. I used the previous one as a template, but the muffler sits vertical to the rear wall now.
Pics of the VERY tight 3" radius bend that made it possible, compared to typical 5" radius U-bend for 3" pipe: (actually started as 2 L-bends, since they can't go further at that tight radius... www.burnsstainless.com - got a deal on a couple surplus bends)
Compared to the way PCTech's on pg.3 here was done, which helped me mock the exhaust up before the new ones arrived this week:
Tuning is underway (just took it out for a little bit... WOW ...this thing gets going in a hurry ). Some soundclips/vids may arise before the weekend is out, but I've got 2-3 L67 jobs including this one, that will be consuming my time at the moment.
- Dave
------------------ '98 Daytona GTP - MP112 & ZZP I/C (warming up before a RWD 3800SC build) back in '06 - 333.5whpSAE - 12.73 @ 111mph (street tires) GenV, XP, 9.4:1, stock heads, non-I/C Admin of CNY3800 http://geocities.com/dezldave961/
[This message has been edited by dezldave961 (edited 04-24-2009).]
Awesome work, Dave - any tighter and that U bend would cross itself!
For the public ear, I am thrilled with the quality of the work so far, and with Dave's attention to detail in making this car not only run right, but look better doing it. I am picking it up on Sunday morning, and feel like a kid at Christmas.
Just a few questions on the exhaust. What muffler did you guys end up running? Do you have the part numbers for the two L-Bends off of Burnsstainless? Also, I was wondering if that exhaust would work without modifying the trunk in any way? Do you think those headers would clear the 4t65? BTW, that is the best looking ehaust I have seen on a 3800 fiero!
Just a few questions on the exhaust. What muffler did you guys end up running? Do you have the part numbers for the two L-Bends off of Burnsstainless? Also, I was wondering if that exhaust would work without modifying the trunk in any way? Do you think those headers would clear the 4t65? BTW, that is the best looking ehaust I have seen on a 3800 fiero!
The muffler is a Magnaflow 12267 F-body 3" inlet with dual 2.5" outlets (the old exhaust had the 2.5" inlet version).
The L-bends are under their 90* bend section for 304SS, as LB-300-30-16-304 (we actually got some 316SS bends that they had on sale for surplus from a custom order).
This exhaust was made to fit sabooo's shortened trunk. I don't see why people would want any more than what's still there, aside from preserving original structure. That space seems plenty for tossing a couple things in for a car cruise, etc.
The SSAutoChromes were made identical to SLP's, which are both designed for the GTP's that already have the 4t65e on the L67. I've got them on my GP, as well as installed on a half dozen other Monte's, Regal's, Impala's, etc. over the years. Needless to say, there's a mile of space over the manual tranny/axle in the back. (EDIT - they actually fit an auto easier, since the manual required modification of the clutch arm for clearance... see prior pics)
- Dave
------------------ '98 Daytona GTP - MP112 & ZZP I/C (warming up before a RWD 3800SC build) back in '06 - 333.5whpSAE - 12.73 @ 111mph (street tires) GenV, XP, 9.4:1, stock heads, non-I/C Admin of CNY3800 http://geocities.com/dezldave961/
[This message has been edited by dezldave961 (edited 04-24-2009).]
Thanks, but I cant claim originality. I bought the car from $Rich$ who had the same plate in South Dakota. I agree, though - good conversation starter, and it confirms people's worst fears.
Checking in from New York - Saw the engine bay first hand tonight. Massive improvement courtesy of a dozen subtle changes. Words fall short of how nice those headers look in there. Dave was tied up trying to get another one out tonight, so didn't get to hear it fire up, but that should happen tomorrow. Will get a video up as soon as I can.
I used the SS autochrome headers designed for the grand prix, etc. Price is hard to beat for a full stainless header. My trunk is a compromise. It's half cut. When I needed to add a cat for PA inspection I had it cut short on 3 sides, and left long on one. Then the long side got folded up to form a new bottom. Trunk is about 14" deep, which leaves room for a full mandrel exhaust. With the headers, the cat had to go, but since the car will not get 5k miles per year, PA emissions inspection is no longer required.
I'll have photos up in the near future.
[This message has been edited by sabooo (edited 04-25-2009).]
Only way you are getting headers in is by cutting the trunk... It doesnt even cut it in half so it really is not a huge loss. (unless you are planning on taking a tire to get it remounted)
If it was short, then it wouldnt really be a header anymore. The stock manifolds are pretty decent, but the headers are designed to boost horsepower.
Thanks for the info. I'm starting to think about the best of both worlds. Ported stock headers would increase hp a bit, but I wouldn't have to do any trunk fabrication. They'd still look like crap, but I'll probably get some made in time.
The car is on its way home (probably there by now). Aside from minor tuning things I'd like to follow up on soon, it went very well. Rich and his son seemed happy. He did see that police presence is too thick to have TOO much fun with it just yet, which is why I had to sneak it around during odd hours outside the city for test drives.
Ported manifolds have been done to death on 3800's, with only slight gain. I dyno'd all 3 setups (stock, ported stock, SSAC's) back when they sent me the 1st set via a Monte Carlo guy who was going to sell them under his company (DPP). At a level starting with 255-260whp years ago (~325bhp), I gained 3-4whp with ported manifolds, and just shy of 25whp with headers, all on the same exact setup for this purpose. Basically, they're worth the minimal cost if you're willing to do the install. I will say that after headers, plugs #1 & #3 are quite difficult & require a wrench on the plug socket, instead of ratchet.
Yes, it looks like the muffler could stuff underneath, but you'd start fighting ground clearance, O2 sensor wire routing, and a couple other hurdles to overcome. If you scroll up to the top of pg. 8 here, one of the pictures shows a side view of how the rear header is clearing his shortened trunk during a test-fit.
With the future plan of continuing to improve this car overall, I think he's on his way to having a very hard-to-beat vehicle for show & go.
- Dave
------------------ '98 Daytona GTP - MP112 & ZZP I/C (warming up before a RWD 3800SC build) back in '06 - 333.5whpSAE - 12.73 @ 111mph (street tires) GenV, XP, 9.4:1, stock heads, non-I/C Admin of CNY3800 http://geocities.com/dezldave961/
Yes - the car is home, safe and sound. Hopefully tomorrow morning I will take it out on the home court and put it through its paces.
I appreciate the comments regarding the headers, but please keep them focused on what was done on this car. Somehow this thread has managed to stay largely on topic for the last 4 years, I'm hoping to keep it that way.
For me the half-trunk solution was the easiest way to get where I wanted to go without totally abandoning the trunk and having the unsightly hole. The problem isn't so much with the header tube, it's getting everything turned back around and into the muffler, and still leaving adequate clearance for the heat to transfer to the air instead of the contents of your trunk. This can be an issue even without headers with the 3800, and I've got a nasty burn in my trunk carpet to prove it.
No worries, m8 - just wanted to make sure we didn't wander too far off the path.
I took the car for a 20 minute drive this morning, and here are my observations:
Throttle behavior is much better. Prior, it had an "all or nothing" feeling when you got into the heart of the boost. Now there is a nice steady increase that can be better controlled. Should make the car much faster into and out of the corners, and much easier to drive in general. This is due in part to everything that we did - New TB, headers, and tuning. Everything works together brilliantly.
Clutch - 100% better. Clutch was bled which has greatly improved the overall feel of it, and has it grabbing much better.
Aeroforce guages - I cant tell you how reassuring it is to me to see "Knock Retard: 0.0" while flogging on it.
Power: Egads. Too much (which is to say, not quite enough. )
Exhaust: Love the sound. Bit of a pop now and again during engine braking, but not obnoxious. Volume is obviously increased.
Intake: Northstar TB has GREATLY reduced that ugly intake rasp.
Remaining issues: Need to tune out the stall tendency caused by using the auto computer with the manual transmission. Should have this done in the next few weeks, give or take the intersection of two busy schedules. Also, not sure if this is "normal" but car hunts for idle for about the first minute or so, bouncing between 1200 and about 2100. Settles once warm. This may just be the nature of the beast, though - I really dont know.
Additional discovery - thanks to Dave's know how, we have confirmed that the stock injectors cant dump enough fuel in to keep up with the 3.0 pulley. Pulleys are cheaper than injectors, so will be backing up a size - maybe 3.25 or so. I dont think I'm going to miss the lost power up top as I've not been brave enough to go there.
In short, yes - Ben are I are happy. Car got a good bath this morning and looks a million bucks again.
I have some video shot of it, but I cant find my firewire cable. Gotta pick up a replacement this week and I'll post them up next weekend when I get home.
cheers, Rich
Edit: Forgot to mention that the Ford Racing intercooler pump is whisper quiet compared to the Flo-Jet. Turning the key on and walking to the front of the car I can just BARELY hear it. I highly recommend this upgrade!
[This message has been edited by sabooo (edited 04-27-2009).]
...this thing gets going in a hurry 
