pics of that push arm that was modified would be a good thing to have. stock fiero's, stock s-dime's, and the modified one. and how far does it need to be extended. was it for a 2wd? would a 4x4 blazers be any better?
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 08-06-2009).]
Here's the RockAuto booster for the 1997 Blazer 2WD, # 5471061. The part # is the same for S-10 pickup and GMC Jimmy.
Here's the 4WD, # 5474822
The specs are the same but the 2wd is $97.79 and the 4wd is $135.79
Looks like maybe the vacuum fitting and the master cylinder mounting are different (?)
Per Phil's first post and roccofiero on page 3, the 2WD Blazer / S-10 pickup is the one to get.
By the way, the Rock Auto booster is made by Cardone. PepBoys, AutoZone, Kragen and NAPA also carry the Cardone, so it looks like Cardone has cornered the market
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-08-2007).]
I am to the point of attaching the fiero booster rod to the S10 rod. here are the two boosters showing how much longer the fiero pushrod is than the S10 rod.
Even if you cut it close to the end, the remaining S10 shaft is still very short.
Since the S10 stub is so short, I am concerned about heating the rubber seals inside the S10 booster when i attach the fiero rod.
I got (3) metal sleeves that I plan to put inside each other and have welded to the fiero rod
Then i plan to slide the sleeved fiero rod over the S10 rod when the booster is installed in the car. I am thinking of even putting some JB Weld on the end where it attaches to the S10 rod.
Any comments from those that have done this mod ?
Thank You
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-19-2007).]
Is there something that would keep you from welding the S10 end of the rod first, then welding the Fiero end onto that? JB Weld on something like this makes me shudder.
[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 08-17-2007).]
after i install the booster, the sleeved end will slip over the S10 stub and i can then attach it to the brake pedal. It will have no where to go, but the edge of the stub sitting in the sleeve will rub the inside of the sleeve as the brakes are used. i just thought the JB Weld would stop this slight movement and wear point.
I am concerned that Any welding on the short stub will transfer enough heat into the S10 booster to damage the rubber seals inside. I put a wet rag aroung the S10 stub while i cut the end off with a dremel tool but the base of the stub still got warm. I'd first weld the sleeve onto the fiero end - no heat transfer since it's off the booster; the booster would get heated when the sleeved end is welded to the stub.
Thanks for the (3) spot welds 120 degrees apart. This was "tack welding" done with wet rags (with no apparent damage to the rubber inside) or did you just weld to the short stub with no heat protection ? I'm guessing that everyone has been dealing with a short stub as shown in the pic above.
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-17-2007).]
Well, my man at the muffler shop has a MIG welder and here's the finished product Maybe that 3rd sleeve was a little much, but better safe than sorry.
He explained that MIG is low temp (as far as welding is concerned), so i asked him to weld both ends. He did the fiero / sleeved piece first, cooled it, THEN welded it to the S10 stub. Although the stub was too hot to touch comfortably, we figured it was not hot enough to damage anything inside the booster because the lightweight foam surrounding the stub was not affected (the rusty brown color is just dirt).
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-17-2007).]
Can't you just thread that booster rod after you cut it, then you can use those pedal rod extension's to get the length you need, I think that would be better then welding it together
Before i welded, I mounted the booster with the stub sticking out then crawled under the dash and put the fiero rod on the brake pedal. I braced the pedal from underneath so that it was held in the "up" position. i swung the fiero rod upward to meet the S10 stub so the rods were side-by-side. I then marked the fiero rod, took it out and cut it to the proper length; used a dremel tool to make sure both rod ends would fit together flat.
I think the threading method would be easier but (for me) more expensive. I don't have a tap and die set. the threaded extensions above are both around $40. The welding job only cost $20. In addition, i think the welding is stronger (although most of the force should be down the length of the rod, not side to side). I think the one i have could stop a charging rhino . But everything i do for my kitcar i try to make bulletproof.
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-17-2007).]
Well, you know what they say about hindsight, you look like your very close to getting this thing installed. Please do a follow-up post and let us know how it worked for you, mine worked great, I now have no problems what-so-ever with stoping power, again much thanks to Phil for getting this whole thing started.
P.S. One other thing that I did before I cut the rod, I hooked up the vacuum to the engine and started it to make sure the diaphragm was in the correct position when I measured the rod length for cut, just a afterthought.
TTSlick - You know, i thought about the position of the S10 rod but it seemed tight and immovable when i got it so wasn't worried. Maybe these things "default" to the same "out" position. Thank you Very much for your interest in helping me through this . (+)
I have the full size blazer master cylinder (i think), beretta front brakes, fiero back brakes and now the S10 power booster with braided steel brake lines. After a 5 mile test ride, all i can say is "Phil, YOU are a GENIUS ". This is definitely the brakes the car should have come with. I think i probably have a little more pedal than i need (lot of stopping with very little pedal effort) but it's going to be a nice adjustment for me to make to my driving style.
I had a few scary moments prior to this instal where i applied the brakes and waited to find out when i would stop. A Very scary experience on wet roads, where the car seemed to go for a LONG ways before it stopped. I know you loose traction when the brakes lock up, and the stock fiero brakes would NEVER lock up but (unlike anti-lock brakes) just seemed to be weak, not efficient. Can you comment on this ?
PS. if i do this mod to another car, i'm gonna do it exactly the same way (MIG welding the rod). i feel VERY safe with that weld Also, if you HAVE to err on cutting the rod, it would be better to make it slightly too short than too long. A too long rod simply would not fit and you might compensate by shimming the booster bracket out . A rod too short, would just leave the pedal sit a little lower but you could re-adjust the brake light switch to accomodate i think.
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 08-19-2007).]
I just wanted to report back, now that I have a few miles on this upgrade. WOW, is it nice ... one of the best things I've done to the car. No sense of "touchy-ness" just a sense of security, that the brakkes are there if i need them. Have not tried locking them up, but i hope i never have to ....
Can you take the master cylinder off and measure the booster? The numbers are posted above for the booster he used. You might have found another alternative for this upgrade. Someone has to be the first one to try it.
With Phils brake mod looking like it is the mod to do, I am wondering why some one hasnt found a source to make these with the proper rod installed. Orge mentioned that only a manufacturer or shop that has the capabilities to take the booster apart and reassemble should tackle this. Well why cant one of these manufacturers do this? I can see where a lot of Fiero people will be doing this. May be Rodney can add this to his list of products that he has available for us?
Just a thought. If I wasnt in school and had more time I would make some phone calls. I would probably get my son at MSU in mechanical engineering and project manager for the Formula SAE team to help his ole dad! He was brake manager last year.
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 09-02-2007).]
I am in the process of this upgrade and decided i would thread the s10 booster rod and couple with a coupling nut. After i threaded the pushrod and putting it all together i realized that I must have had the die cocked a small amount when threading because my extension is off by a couple of degrees. Will this cause catastrophic failure or should i be ok? thanks.
LZeppelin - I had the same issue with mine. It was just slightly out of total alignment. So, I just placed the entire connected rod on a flat rock and hit it easily with a hammer until it was straighter. It's fine and the car stops remarkably fast. Ed
Keep in mind, the smaller booster won't give as much brake assist. Since the reason for the swap is to get more assist, I would think you'd want to go with the largest booster that will fit. The S10 booster looks to be about as much as you can squeeze in there without major surgery.
not really the case if they are identical designs then you are correct but these new dual diaphgram ones are amazing i put a small one in my 51 chevy puickup i think it was like an 8 inch and it stops awesome especially for a 1 ton four wheel drive v8 truck.
also about some concerns as to weather the s10 booster would work with a 2,8 napa only list 1 booster for the 96 s10 so if it will work with a 2.2 4cvl i'm pretty sure it;ll work with your 2.8
[This message has been edited by Ants87gt (edited 11-26-2007).]
Originally posted by schumi: 3. I had to use a couple of M10 washers on each of the m/c mounting bolts, because without them the pushrod thing from booster to m/c was causing brakes to be engaged even w/o pressing the pedal.
What about this?
oh and to all the people who can lock up thier tires with stock brakes..... Get some better frickin' tires. Tires transfer ALL HP to the ground along with ALL brakeing power. If your tires can't stick to the ground they suck!
[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 12-09-2007).]
not really the case if they are identical designs then you are correct but these new dual diaphgram ones are amazing i put a small one in my 51 chevy puickup i think it was like an 8 inch and it stops awesome especially for a 1 ton four wheel drive v8 truck.
also about some concerns as to weather the s10 booster would work with a 2,8 napa only list 1 booster for the 96 s10 so if it will work with a 2.2 4cvl i'm pretty sure it;ll work with your 2.8
I have not done this mod on my Fiero, BUT the duel diaphram booster is a HUGE brake upgrade that I did on my Jeep. I went from 28" tall tires to 33" tall tires and the stock booster is dangerously inadequate for the larger tires. The same size booster from a newer Jeep that has two diaphrams will now lock up the wheels. VERY easy mod for a Jeep, should have the same results in the Fiero too.
Silly question I know but this upgrade does work on an 88 someone has done it? I know the booster is slightly different for 88 I was wondering how well it worked on an 88 thanks.
Silly question I know but this upgrade does work on an 88 someone has done it? I know the booster is slightly different for 88 I was wondering how well it worked on an 88 thanks.
Does anyone know what the actual differences betwen the '88 and pre '88 boosters and master cylinders are besides the master cylinder bore diameter? Will an '88 booster and master bolt into a pre '88 or does it require a lot of fabrication? What won't match up easily, if anything? BTW, I'm going to be using rockcrawls brake conversion kit that uses '88 calipers and vetter rotors on a pre '88 car, which is why I'm interested.
But I have a revelant question.........Does replacing the Master Cylinder with a Bigger one have an affect on the pedal? I replaced my M/C with a Bigbore and the brakes haven't been the same since! Now,...if I replaced the Booster with the aforementioned S-10 option,...would that help my "soft Pedal" problem?
YES. Did you change anything else, or just install a bigger bore master cylinder? If you did, WHY did you change it?
I have an 88GT and I just did this conversion on mine. what a differance ! I have never been able to lock up the brakes until now Great and easy mod. took less than 2 hrs. for me to do and total cost with the booster (new) and the nuts $124.00
I'm working on this. I should be able to get these larger boosters made with the correct mounting bracket and the correct banjo on them. I am looking to see if a slightly smaller booster is available that may be a direct interchange so no body work needs to be done. I am working with an automotive brake booster manufacturer. This will take a fairly long time to get this done. Maybe by the beginning of next year. We'll see.
Seeking input on the body work part. Would you prefer a booster that directly interchanges and needs no body work but the braking effects gains are not as much as the larger booster that requires body work to make fit? Possibly if I find one that is around 10 inches in diameter and requires no body work I can offer both variations.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
The body work isn't too hard Rodney. All it takes is a couple of whacks with a BFH. It doesn't even damage the paint if done right. You just need a little clearance to fit the new booster. Probably less than 1/8 of an inch. The biggest pain is getting the right length banjo fitting. When you have yours ready, count me in for getting one.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 05-18-2008).]
.
. A rod too short, would just leave the pedal sit a little lower but you could re-adjust the brake light switch to accomodate i think.
