Originally posted by Blacktree: I've been testing Rodney's new booster for about a month now, and it works great. If he does decide to go ahead with production, this will definitely be a "gotta-have" item for just about any brake upgrade.
Blacktree, Thanks for doing the testing for all of us. Do you have a subjective evaluation of how much the braking performance has been improved? Also, how does the pedal feel, do you get good feedback? I've got an 88 GT that I want to improve the braking on. Swapping out the OEM brake booster for Rodney's custom fit S10 booster will probably be my first step.
Once again, THANKS for doing some of the leg work. And thanks to Rodney for providing our community with yet another great product.
edited to compensate for temporary cognitive malfunction.
[This message has been edited by FieroBobo (edited 10-09-2010).]
First of all, I should explain that my Fiero has non-stock brakes. It has Grand Am calipers and rotors front and rear, with the Blazer master cylinder, and now the Rodney Dickman booster. I installed the Blazer master cylinder, because the Grand Am calipers caused the brake pedal to feel mushy with the stock Fiero master cylinder. The Blazer master cylinder fixed that issue, but caused another one: increased pedal effort. I was actually having trouble stopping the car in panic-stop situations. Rodney's booster fixed that issue. I can now make panic stops confidently.
So IMO, Rodney's booster (or the S10 booster) is a "must-have" if you have a larger master cylinder.
Functionally, Rodney's booster is almost identical to the S10 booster. The difference is that Rodney's is designed to work in the Fiero. So the performance is the same. I should also note that Rodney's booster (at least, the sample unit he sent to me) is powdercoated black, whereas the S10 booster is bare steel.
However, the S10 booster and Rodney's booster both perform better than the Fiero booster. You will get more vacuum boost. So the brakes will grab harder when you push the pedal. The pedal doesn't feel mushy, or overly stiff. Pedal effort is pretty light at first. But the harder you press the pedal, the more feedback you get. IMO, this helps to prevent inadvertent lock-up of the brakes.
Hopefully, Rodney will have these available soon. But in the meantime, I have been modifying S10 boosters for people. I don't make much money from it, so it isn't very lucrative for me. I'm just helping a few people out. When Rodney's boosters become available, I will stop modding the S10 boosters.
Why wait for R.Dickman, I had just installed a booster that blacktree made for me and I can tell you his work is TOTALLY PROFESIONAL. If you really would like a good braking Fiero talk to Blacktree, you wont be sorry.
Blacktree: Thanks for a super job, I just installed an It took me about 2 hours, the part of the installation that worried me ( the metal bending hammering) was easy and not a big deal. Now I have good brakes, and I am Happy like a kid in a candy store.
Thanks for a super job the booster looks like it came from the factory.
That said, I don't make much money off the booster mod. It actually works out to less than minimum wage. So I don't want to make a business out of it. But I don't mind doing one every now and then, as a service to the Fiero community.
Mike: I do know that the booster service you are providing probably you will not make you minimum wages, however. you do (in my modest opinion) such a great service to the Fiero community that I can only rave about it. I really do no see waitting for months and months (as I did) for RD and risking an accident due to poor brakes when there is a choice, and my friend you are filling that choice.
I am so impressed with you that I can only say GOD BLESS YOU.
I'm looking to make a small batch to see how they do. I would have them maybe later this summer/early fall.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
A lot of people have tried this mod and indicate brakes 'feel' better, or lock up sooner, but have any actual stopping distance tests been done?
Rodney - I am very interested in this, and would definitely buy from you when you get them stock, even if the price is higher than what was first quoted. BUT before buying I'd want someone to have tested and be able to provide hard facts that showing stopping distance improved from X feet to Y feet in an otherwise stock Fiero. Any tests with bigger tires, rotors or calipers don't qualify.
Hopefully you'll be able to include these test results on your website. The more you can demonstrate a significant reduction in stopping distance, the more of a premium you can charge for these.
If you can currently lock up your stock brakes....more accurately, hold them right at the edge of lock up....then the booster change cannot shorten your stopping distance since it is set by the friction between your TIRES and the pavement. However, it takes so much pedal pressure to lock up MY stock brakes it is very difficult to modulate right at the edge of lock up. The reduced pedal pressure right at lock up will probably allow you to modulate better. But overall, if you can modulate at the edge of lock up now, the booster swap will not shorten your braking distance. Even the 'big brake' swaps will not shorten your braking distance unless they reduce a brake fading problem if you can already hold at the edge of lock up.
All that said, I will make the swap as soon as I get my Fiero to pass inspection!
Phil THANK YOU! I completed this mod a couple hours ago and am amazed at how much easier the brakes are to apply. Before, I could barely (if at all) lock up my brakes if I pushed really hard (and I am fairly strong). Now they feel like they should have been originally designed to feel.
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------ 87 Formula Clone, 3800SC, 3.4 pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, 12.98 at 103.4 1/4 mile, Regal GS Gauge Cluster.
I was hoping they would be here this week. I'm guessing probably next week. But for sure they will be here with in the next few weeks. I will only have maybe 5-6 to send out for R&D to a few select Fiero owners (I have already posted that and have enough testers waiting). If all is OK I will order more and they would be here next spring or so. ------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
[This message has been edited by Rodney (edited 12-19-2011).]
This is good news for the Fiero community. It means we'll have a vendor offering a real product, instead of some guy (i.e me ) hacking up S10 boosters in his workshed.
I was hoping they would be here this week. I'm guessing probably next week. But for sure they will be here with in the next few weeks. I will only have maybe 5-6 to send out for R&D to a few select Fiero owners (I have already posted that and have enough testers waiting). If all is OK I will order more and they would be here next spring or so.
Okay thanks.... I guess it's safe to assume I didn't make the cut of the R&D Testers... Oh well I will be a satisfied customer at some point.
I have more than several qualified testers waiting. I will need to choose who I send them to from my list once they get here. I have not done that yet.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I have decided to discontinue the large brake booster project.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
sorry to hear it rodney. i was kinda watchin this to see when you were coming out with this unit. wat bout the input bearings still going ahead on that front. why did you drop the booster
------------------ "Speed costs money. How fast do you wanna go?"
That's too bad, I was waiting to order one. May I ask what the problems were?
Thanks Nolan
dont let this stop you, I did this mod about 3 months ago after stumbling on this thread - not too hard if you have a 110v mig welder, and it is a SUPER mod for the $$$$
------------------ 87 Formula Clone, 3800SC, 3.4 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, 12.98 at 103.4 1/4 mile, Regal GS Gauge Cluster, S-10 Brake Booster Upgrade.
I have some information to hopefully make some things clear. From my understanding, some members have found out there is another type of booster from the same year that doesn't provide as much assist as the one Phil used in the first post of this thread. It has also been stated that the differences where 2WD and 4WD. That is NOT true, it has nothing to do with how many wheels are driven. It's the brake codes that are different. If you look at a 95-96 Blazer/S10, there is only one brake booster. It's in 97+ when they added the other booster. This is all for a 1997 Chevy Blazer. The one we want is brake code JM3, which has rear DRUM brakes. This is the correct one-
The other booster is brake code JC1, which has rear DISC brakes. This is the "wrong" booster-
It makes sense, because one would think you would need a stronger booster with rear drum brakes compared to rear disc brakes. Not to mention that the "wrong" booster is a lot more expensive with a higher core charge.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-09-2012).]
Working on it. Ordered the booster from Rockauto on Monday. I'll post finished pictures when it's complete. But I won't get to test it any time soon because there isn't a cradle or engine in it right now.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-07-2012).]
Originally posted by mattwa: <snip> If you look at a 95-96 Blazer/S10, there is only one brake booster. It's in 97+ when they added the other booster. This is all for a 1997 Chevy Blazer. The one we want is brake code JM3, which has rear DRUM brakes. <snip>
I used the 1996 S10 pickup booster as posted by Phil on page 1. Cardone part # 54-71061 as posted by Blacktree on page 6.
Speaking of which, I got my brake booster today! Looks great. ]
Matt, please be kind enough to tell us how the fit was and walk us through the install. I recall someone telling me that the install was a direct bolt on but the firewall needed a little modification to accept the larger S10 booster.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Matt, please be kind enough to tell us how the fit was and walk us through the install. I recall someone telling me that the install was a direct bolt on but the firewall needed a little modification to accept the larger S10 booster.
I'm basically doing exactly what Blacktree did on Page 6, so I won't go over it in as much detail. I already hammered out the section needed on the frame for clearance, and pulled the clutch line over a bit, as the clutch line is in the way of the bigger booster. I will take some more pictures when I modify the booster and install it.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-09-2012).]
Here are some pics of where it has to be dented to fit, and you really don't have to dent to far. I test fit it, see where it hits, pull off, dent, repeat. Untill I can slide something like a peice of paper between the frame and the booster. On my GT I didn't even chip the paint, if it does flake, prob will, just touch up with a spray of black paint. These are pics on a test Fiero to see what needed to be dented, after I saw that is was not much at all. I did the swap on my GT, night and day difference.
Here are some pics of the size difference from the stock to bigger booster.
Here are some pics of where the Fiero needs to be "modded" for the bigger booster to fit. I scraped off the paint where it was dented to show better in pics. (this was done on a test fit junk car) It's really not much.
could someone please PM me the exact master cylinder I can use with this? I have all the stock 1988 brakes, and parts right now. I love the look of 13" rotors, but I like my stock black offset GT wheels too much... I will be buying drilled/slotted rotors online, but want to maximize brake "power" I believe BLACKTREE has a Blazer master cylinder in his fiero with the larger brake booster. what year blazer? and will it be better/larger than a stock 88 fiero's?
With stock calipers (and with non-stock in most cases), use the stock master. A larger master will REDUCE braking torque! It will reduce brake pedal movement, but you will have to push on the pedal harder to achieve the same braking torque.
The bigger master cylinder does NOT increase braking power. It actually REDUCES braking power. However, it moves a larger volume of fluid, which is necessary for calipers with larger cylinder bores. The bigger brake booster is used to regain the braking power that you lose with the bigger master cylinder.
With stock calipers (and with non-stock in most cases), use the stock master. A larger master will REDUCE braking torque! It will reduce brake pedal movement, but you will have to push on the pedal harder to achieve the same braking torque.
) hacking up S10 boosters in his workshed.
