Addco makes a 1" front bar for the '84-87 Fiero, and a 1-1/8" front bar for the '88 Fiero. You can buy them from Summit Racing. The Fiero Store also sells a 1" front bar for the '84-87, but nothing for the '88.
Edit to add: Rodney Dickman's "zero lash" endlinks will stiffen up the sway bar, too.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-24-2013).]
Addco makes a 1" front bar for the '84-87 Fiero, and a 1-1/8" front bar for the '88 Fiero. You can buy them from Summit Racing. The Fiero Store also sells a 1" front bar for the '84-87, but nothing for the '88.
Edit to add: Rodney Dickman's "zero lash" endlinks will stiffen up the sway bar, too.
Thanks! I knew there was one out there. The Fiero I had with the thicker front bar was totaled 8-10 years ago. I'm currently using the Fiero Store bars on this '87GT but I'm pretty sure my balance is off and want a thicker one up front.
My thoughts are that the Trueleo intake provides too much airflow for the stock 3400 cam. I would need a higher lift cam to take advantage of it to increase the airflow velocity.
On the exact same dyno, my modified Fiero intake made 249 ft*lbs vs 203 ft*lbs on a MUSTANG dyno. However my peak HP RPM was ~4150 RPM... That said, my peak was 187 with the Fiero intake vs. 166 with the Trueleo on the same dyno.
I have Monday off and I'll be paying a visit to a machine shop I've dealt with in the past to see if they can perform the DAWG mod to that upper intake (glad I never sold it). With luck I will be able to get my peak to at least 4900 rpm if not a little more.
On my 'next' motor, I will definitely put in a high-lift cam and slap the Trueleo intake on that motor. Oreif's 3.4 made 205hp with the Trueleo and the H272 cam. It'll be interesting to see what the WOT roller cam with .509" of lift can do...
No - heads are not the problem. Neither is my ported lower intake manifold.
My stock Formula burns 1.5qts between 3k oil changes...that was will probably get that 'next' motor, which will be a 3.5L ... But that's probably 2 years away...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 11-08-2013).]
Do the camshaft, you know you're getting bored with the stock one. Then you'll be setup for when you decide to go with aluminum heads, just kidding, unless your going to do it.
Do the camshaft, you know you're getting bored with the stock one. Then you'll be setup for when you decide to go with aluminum heads, just kidding, unless your going to do it.
Well I made 187 rwhp at ~4150 rpm and the Fiero intake neck choked me after that. That's why I went with the Trueleo intake but that killed my air velocity and made me lose power. I'm hoping the DAWG mod lets me flow to 5200. For the track I run on, because of the curves, I don't have time to rev much past 5000 rpm so I'm more about maximizing my power band in the 3000-5000 range. If I could find 1.7 roller rockers that would fit, that would help a lot with the current intake. I will probably try to get another tune in to see where I ended up. I should be in the mid to upper 170's now with the Trueleo...well, on a dynojet anyways...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 11-09-2013).]
Thought about the 3.94 final and maybe the 2.19 second for your Getrag?
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias: No. For this race I switched back to the 255/40-16 BFG G-Force's in the back and moved my bigger wheels/tires to the front and it paid off on the back straight-away where I picked up speed since those wheels+tires have less diameter than the 275/40-17 Nittos I've been running.
So you go with a shorter tire and think it helps, but don't want to go to shorter gears?
My thoughts are that the Trueleo intake provides too much airflow for the stock 3400 cam. I would need a higher lift cam to take advantage of it to increase the airflow velocity.
Sounds like you actually need a bigger cam. You've been rejecting that because it'll move your peak power to a higher RPM, and you think that this will slow you down because you don't see that RPM on the track.
And yet, you reject the idea of shorter gears, which will let you see that RPM on the track...
Look at the big picture... Cam and gears would make you MUCH quicker.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-09-2013).]
Look at the actual picture. I can't change the gears so I switched back to shorter tires on the back (255/40/16). If it wasn't for my busted shift cable, I would have gave the 2nd fast car at Seekonk speeday a hell of a race on 10/13 ... In an ideal world, I'd be able to change everything to be faster. I'm not changing this engine/cam until it blows up. Same with the transmission. So until then, I can only change everything else.
Here's two of the fastest cars off the line: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YnepzvnNwI They did about an 18.5 second lap. The Eagle Talon did a 10.9 on the 1/4 and the Eagle Summit is in the 11's. Luckily for me, their weakness is the curves. It's tough to tell from this angle here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBWBfVQ7Qvk but basically, I shift into 2nd before the 1st turn and I should have been able to out-accelerate him thru the first curve but I was in neutral before the 1st curve and almost to the end of it...then I meshed into 3rd gear entering the back straight-away and you see me pick up speed.
This track is about your launch and how you handle the curves and less about gears and horsepower. I've got the launches and handling down pretty good but those shorter tires have too much backspacing and it causes my wheel to rub my spring when I go into turn 3 too fast. My 275/17/40's have 5.5" of backspacing and don't rub my spring on the outside but they hurt my launches and my speed on the back straight-away...
Here's what that AWD 38psi Talon does to the typical car off the line...if he didn't baby it going into turn 3, it wouldn't be that close: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a5HJO3XDFg
That Eagle Summit and Eagle Talon are essentially the same platform (turbo AWD DSM 1G). They are both limited in handling on the curves. I'm running the HELD 12" brake kit. I can maintain speed and brake later than them despite being out powered by a HUGE margin. The beauty of this track it that it's more like a chess match when compared to the 1/4 mile. The 1/4 mile is boring to me. If you spend money, anyone can post any time on the 1/4 mile. With the oval track, you have to be able to launch, take a turn, accelerate, brake, take a turn and then out power your opponent coming out of turn 4 without spinning out. It's totally different ballgame....so much more fun...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 11-10-2013).]
Thats kinda what Will was asking, are you in a "lift limited" class?
Those are also known as...."stock eliminator lobes," "cheater lobes," or "dwell nose cams." Old school for sure. If valve lift is not limited in your class, why in the world are you running something like that? I'm sure you have the rest of the valvetrain figured out. Just curious.
[This message has been edited by sleevePAPA (edited 11-14-2013).]
Thats kinda what Will was asking, are you in a "lift limited" class?
Those are also known as...."stock eliminator lobes," "cheater lobes," or "dwell nose cams." Old school for sure. If valve lift is not limited in your class, why in the world are you running something like that? I'm sure you have the rest of the valvetrain figured out. Just curious.
[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 11-17-2013).]
No, I'm not on a limited lift class. This cam has the same valve lift on the cam on the car now, .480. With this design I can have the lift and keep that lift as long as possible. This is an experimental set up for my 2.8 that if it works, it will end up on my big valve 3.4 but with more duration. And yes, I have the rest of parts; springs, lifters & retainers that go with it as a kit.
This is the benefit of a roller cam. It can get to max lift sooner with less friction on the valve train so it gets to maintain max lift longer.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 11-24-2013).]
No, I'm not on a limited lift class. This cam has the same valve lift on the cam on the car now, .480. With this design I can have the lift and keep that lift as long as possible. This is an experimental set up for my 2.8 that if it works, it will end up on my big valve 3.4 but with more duration. And yes, I have the rest of parts; springs, lifters & retainers that go with it as a kit.
Interested to see how that works out considering how abusive it will be on the valve train, lol. Time to open up your own thread? I hate to keep high-jacking this thread but I do have a couple more questions.
Interesting link. I used the 2nd calculation on that page. Plugging in 207cid and 4200 peak power (restricted neck), I only need a 50mm TB. That's probably what the stock Fiero neck flows. Plugging in 207cid and my goal of 5200 rpm of peak power and I only need a 56mm TB.
Hopefully, the DAWG mod I am having done will be done this week and I can slap back together my 57mm setup.
At the very least, the system will be better matched up and down.
------------------ "There is no more formidable adversary than one who perceives he has nothing to lose." - Gen. George S. Patton http://www.flowbenchtech.com
[This message has been edited by Brucepts (edited 11-26-2013).]
This is good info to show a relation, however, an NA 3.4 at somewhere between 85%-90% VE only pulls 360cfm at 6000rpm. I am also running a ported middle and ported lower. Clearly the ported stock setup has the potential I need. I'd love to see the Trueleo intake #'s on that same flowbench just to get the relational difference.
Thedrue on PFF took this a step further and increased plenum volume as well, I think you could benefit from that as plenum volume is supposed to be around half the displacement and I really doubt the fiero intake comes close with the runners included.
Thedrue on PFF took this a step further and increased plenum volume as well, I think you could benefit from that as plenum volume is supposed to be around half the displacement and I really doubt the fiero intake comes close with the runners included.
If you look here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/075502-7.html#p264 You see how much larger my tubes are than stock. This porting was done all the way thru the lower intake and heads. If you look at my dyno on page 3 and Brucepts' flow data several posts up, you'll clearly see it was the intake neck that was my restriction. The Trueleo intake gave me more plenum volume and that actually slowed down my airflow and lowered my torque by 17%. In truth, both setups were making the same power around 4900 but the Fiero intake gave me much more power prior to that rpm. It is my hope that the DAWG mod will maintain/restore my 249 ft*lbs of torque but peak at 4000 instead of 3600 and my hp curve should continue to rise past 187 rwhp @ 4150 as well.
Where larger plenum volume is beneficial is when the tubes/runners are left close to stock.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-03-2013).]
Truello intake is easily over twice maybe three times the volume of a fiero intake, if you do not get your powerband moved up as high as you hope to I would look into it, it just seems the small area where the runners all meet would be very restrictive with the runners for cylinders 5 and 6 getting the most benefit from the DAWG mod, because even with the standard DAWG mod the cross section area of the intake where the tube meets the body is still smaller than the throttle body area
Here is a picture of his and you can see the cross section is improved a lot
Originally posted by lou_dias: I pick up my DAWG-modded intake on Friday!
You posted that a bit more than a month ago.
May I ask from whom and how you obtained a "DAWG-modded" intake? Did it end up coming from a machine shop local to your area, or from somebody else? I ask because I'd like to get one for my 3.4L, and Dawg appears not to have posted anything on any PFF forum for well over a year.
Separately, I'm looking foward to seeing the upcoming dyno results for your "DAWG-modded intake", versus a Trueleo intake, on your "Project 3400 Roller Cam Block". Those dyno results should prove interesting.
May I ask from whom and how you obtained a "DAWG-modded" intake? Did it end up coming from a machine shop local to your area, or from somebody else? I ask because I'd like to get one for my 3.4L, and Dawg appears not to have posted anything on any PFF forum for well over a year.
Separately, I'm looking foward to seeing the upcoming dyno results for your "DAWG-modded intake", versus a Trueleo intake, on your "Project 3400 Roller Cam Block". Those dyno results should prove interesting.
Hi, I had a local machine shop do it for $200. Haven't installed it yet. Was gonna take out some timing after 4800rpm on my current setup and dyno again since I now have the fuel dialed in and I do hear pinging up top which is probably what was capping my peak hp at around 4900...but I figure might as well just stop investing in that setup and just wait until I swap over the DAWG'd intake.
May be another month or so before I even bother. Might have to use it as a daily as is since my 2 other Fieros need some maintenance. Waiting for this snow storm to go away too since I still have the racing tires on it...
That looks really nice, a cross between what the truelo is trying to accomplish and the Dawg mod. Looks like a Dawg intake on steroids!! Has he tried this out to see how it works? I have a Dawg-like modified intake on my 3.4, but since I didn't drive the 3.4 before I put it on I didn't have anything to compare it with. [/QUOTE] ------------------ 1986 Fiero GT Fastback 3.4Lpr with 4T60 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with "big boy" 5.9 motor 1983 Honda Goldwing 1100 Interstate
[This message has been edited by Grantman (edited 01-02-2014).]
That looks really nice, a cross between what the truelo is trying to accomplish and the Dawg mod. Looks like a Dawg intake on steroids!! Has he tried this out to see how it works? I have a Dawg-like modified intake on my 3.4, but since I didn't drive the 3.4 before I put it on I didn't have anything to compare it with.
Those ports still look stock though. On page 7 of this thread you can see how much larger my ports were over stock and when compared to a stock GEN3 intake.
A dyno will answer your question. The "typical" 3.4 w/Fiero intake hits a wall somewhere around 4100-4500 rpm. If it's a basic swap, you'll hit it at 4500, if your engine is more efficient, you'll hit it sooner like I did. That neck was a choke point. Since I had money to burn at that time, I chose to just Trueleo + '7730 it at the same time and thus began years of headaches...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-03-2014).]
Originally posted by ericjon262: ah you won't need that, head flow numbers don't mean anything so why would intake flow numbers help.
Welcome back troll! Dyno #'s are the only thing that matter. I've already done 187/249 on a mustang dyno by maintaining a TPI effect. I don't need much more than that. When will you get it thru your thick skull that I don't plan on revving this thing past 5500 rpm? When I want to go to 6500, come talk to me, I might give a crap then.
Welcome back troll! Dyno #'s are the only thing that matter. I've already done 187/249 on a mustang dyno by maintaining a TPI effect. I don't need much more than that. When will you get it thru your thick skull that I don't plan on revving this thing past 5500 rpm? When I want to go to 6500, come talk to me, I might give a crap then.
I never said anything about 6500 RPM did I?
I'm just still having trouble grasping why cylinder head flow doesn't mean anything, yet you're trying to increase flow everywhere else....
Originally posted by ericjon262: I never said anything about 6500 RPM did I?
I'm just still having trouble grasping why cylinder head flow doesn't mean anything, yet you're trying to increase flow everywhere else....
It's simple:
1) you replied to a quote about the intake, not the head 2) cylinder head flow is limited by how much vacuum an engine makes which is a function of it's displacement and RPM. So, over-size your ports too much you'll actually reduce your torque because your air velocity will slow down... 3) if I port heads to flow 250/224 in/ex and the motor makes 140 hp, what good was all that flow?
When are you going to realize that all you do is troll? Further more, La Fiera's CNC ported heads flow as much as stock aluminum heads and he removed the vane that balances the flow around the valve stem...which reduces flow on iron heads. My heads have already made as much torque as any V6/60 and considering I'm running a stock cam, that's pretty amazing. Once I throw the old intake on with the new DAWG mod, I expect more since my peak was at 3600 with the stock intake neck.
Would you like me to go troll your turbo 3500 build?
But that's probably 2 years away...
