Tachometer fix. Was missing the tach filter. Got a chip from DarthFiero, car seems to run good. I had some sticky lifters. I put an additive in the oil to loosen them up and I think it worked for one of them. Next oil change I may put an additive to fill them up if the slight ticking/tapping I still hear doesn't go away but one of them did with this additive. I'm amazed it made a difference at all. Now instead of running on 4.25 cylinders, I feel like it's running on 5.25 cylinders.
I need to put in my ported water separator/air silencer. I need to put a full 2.5" exhaust. Right now it's stock from the cat back.
So once again, Summit rockers do fit.
On the lifters, it's my fault for not replacing them. I had good luck with used lifters with more miles before. Again, they are probably just sticky. I think they have 58k miles on them. Yeah, yeah, after all the other things I replaced, I shouldn't have taken a chance with them. I want to put some miles on this motor before a dyno.
I got some pinging under load on the highway. I'll try backing off the timing a hair. Lots of lower and mid-range power. I think the air intake tube is holding me back as is the 2.5" exhaust. I got about 180 miles on the motor so far.
It turns out I had a so-so plug wire and a cracked plug wire. So I really was running on 4.75 cylinders. I pick up the car today. Excited to see the real power of this monster.
I believe it will give my turbo 3.1 a run for it's money.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-06-2007).]
Well, I am firing all 6 cylinders now. I can accelerate in 6th gear no problem now. The torgue is unbelievable. No top end yet. I need to put a proper exhaust on there. If I dynoed it now, I'd say 140hp/205tq. With a full 2.5" exhaust, I can see 170/210. I'm not even going to dyno it until I get a proper exhaust.
...and i also used 1.6 rockers..just not rollor..3.1Liter ones, same everything else as you tho..oh and the proper length pushrod is 5.98inches...not 5.85....but honestly either will work fine depending on rockers..i used 6 inch push rods cause im using stock rockers, alluminm as urs and fierosound are slightly bigger so 5.85 is needed to clear the valve cover..so no worries there..btw dont listen to fireosound....ive learned that the hard way,
i brought my mechanic a completed short block including heads and he said 1100$ will do it.....but that was before we got into an arguement and found out that there was A L O T of drilling, hellacooling, timeserting, welding, grinding that fierosound D I D N O T mention!!! so yes my mech is pissed!!! so had telling what the $$$ is up to know..thanks fierosound!!!
There's differences between the cars and engines and will therefore have some variance in the installs. The 5.85" long pushrod works fine - even you agree "but honestly either will work fine depending on rockers".
I did not mention all the items you are talking about because I did not do all the "extra" work your mechanic managed to find.
The 3400 block has 2 water pump bolts that are larger than on the 2.8 and I just drilled the 2 water pump and timing cover holes bigger. Not sure why your mechanic chose the more DIFFICULT and EXPENSIVE way to rectify this. I apologised for forgetting to mention that the bypass hole in the timing cover needs to be plugged.
On the 87, all that was required was a slight grinding of the front L-bracket motor mount to clear the corner of the aluminum oil pan. I believe I even sent this picture showing the circled area where this is. (not a pic of my engine, I used original 2-bolt rubber mount) The front motor mount on the 88 is obviously VERY different than the previous years. I had NO WAY to know that to tell you that your mechanic would need to build you a completely new motor mount.
Had you known more about your own car this could have been solved before taking your engine in. At least it's driving good now and you're happy with the power of the engine.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-10-2008).]
Well, it turns out most of the drivability issues I've been having with the car are due to a bad coolant temp sensor. The probes on the sensor were rusty tripping code 15. My plugs were constantly getting fouled and lately caused a code 13. I pulled 3 plugs, cleaned them and replaced the sensor then started it (on 3 cylinders) eventually the motor warmed up and the other 3 cylinders started to fire. Prior to this I had replaced the plugs 3 times since October. Let's hope for the best from now on.
well, 18 days later, I must say the car is running better and better... I must note, thanks to my oversized wheels (255/55/16)..or are they 50 series..., I don't have the issues that people thought they'd have with the F40 6speed. 3rd gear goes to ~100mph @ 6000rpm instead of 90mph, in 4th gear, I am doing 45mph @ 2000rpm instead of 40mph with the getrag. 5th is about the same and in 6th, I am doing 69mph @ 2000rpm.
The car uses a dakota digital unit to run the speedometer with a signal from the transmission. It was calibrated with a gps so it's pretty accurate. Short term plans for the car are to make the interior nicer. I might also have someone replace the outer dew wipes with some replacements I picked up from diy_stu a few months ago.
Turns out I had a cracked ignition module and arcing wires at the cap. With all that replaced, the motor is much more stable. Didn't want to starrt after a rain with lots of moisture in the air. I'm planning on moving the 2.5" exhaust I had on the yellow turbo GT onto this car since The Fiero Factory's 4.9 installation includes an exhaust. Now I just got to get Ed to ship me back the exhaust and motor.
Since my soon to be 4.9'd yellow GT won't be back in time for the May 25th event at Seekonk Speedway, I am bringing this car to http://www.louscustomexhaust.com/ for a proper 2.5" exhaut. They seem reasonably priced.
Last month I put in a 2.5" exhaust and then spapped an axle. It took almost a month, between mechani'c shop time and turn around on the parts for the new one to finally be installed, however, now that I've driven the car with the exhaust for a few weeks, I must say, it was quite a power upgrade...
I have to get the driver's side front bearing replaced, until then I won't be driving the car much as I just got my yellow GT back with a fresh Ed Parks installation.
I am curious why you didn't just use an actual 3400 for your build? It seems like much more work to use fiero stuff on a 3400 block. All that to have less power and efficiency. Just curious, not trying to bad mouth at all, i am sure you have your reasons.
No one around here would have been able to wire in the full 3400, so I hybrid'd it. I am pleased with the performance right now. I will try to get it on a dyno in a month or so once I have a wheel bearing replaced.
After that, the next step is to move to a Trueleo intake or 7730 ECM...
Still waiting on the bearing from Held Motorsports. I was told I need to pay $200 for it to be replaced after spending $1800 on all 4 new and having one fail at between 3000 and 4000 miles worth of use (and $6300 in total with the brakes and suspension...see the 6 speed build thread). Makes no sense to me...
A phone call to Lee resulted in him telling me he never heard from me after his original email on July 14th. So he had done nothing so far as producing a new bearing. First, I did email him immediately upon receiving the email where he told me he wanted $200 to replace the bearing...and I told him I didn't feel that was right. Perhaps it was conveniently ignored... Second, he custom made these bearings for me...exactly how am I ever supposed to drive my car without one...? Why would I not want a new one? The logic in some people's heads I don't understand. It's not like I can easily convert back to stock on just one wheel... Unbelievable...so now I get to wait another 3 weeks...
If another bearing goes bad, I might as well see if a local machine shop can reproduce it. It seems like the turnaround would be much quicker... If this guy isn't going to warranty his products, why stick with him...?
He's had my bearing since the 13th/14th of this month... I just don't understand what decision he was waiting for to begin making a new one. It's his custom bearing...on his custom suspension. His part that failed after 3K+ miles of use. Was I magically going to retro-fit one stock 5x100 wheel on the car and run the other 3 with the '99 Camaro SS wheels? Incompetence... The kicker is he wants me to pay another $200...
Took it to the dyno today finally. Who can post the scans? Made 241 ft*lbs in 4th gear and 172RWHP @ 4200 rpm in 1st run.
In the second run I used 3rd gear and made 249 ft*lbs and 187rwhp @ 4200 rpm.
Seems my ignition is bad over 5000 rpm. A/F ratio is too rich with fuel...
This is a new record for using the Fiero intake. I did increase flow with my porting and shortening but I've done nothing about the neck. Time to save up for a Trueleo me thinks.
Correction factor was .975 and this dyno was calibrated to dynajet specs.
Took it to the dyno today finally. Who can post the scans? Made 241 ft*lbs in 4th gear and 172RWHP @ 4200 rpm in 1st run.
In the second run I used 3rd gear and made 249 ft*lbs and 187rwhp @ 4200 rpm.
Seems my ignition is bad over 5000 rpm. A/F ratio is too rich with fuel...
This is a new record for using the Fiero intake. I did increase flow with my porting and shortening but I've done nothing about the neck. Time to save up for a Trueleo me thinks.
Correction factor was .975 and this dyno was calibrated to dynajet specs.
Yup, AFR looks too rich to me as well. But if the ignition system was failing during these dyno runs, this could have thrown the AFR readings off as well. If this were my car, I would get the ignition system issue resolved first then retest the full throttle AFR and see what the result is. It will probably turn out to still be too rich, but *should not be as bad as it was on the dyno when the ignition system was failing. But overall dyno numbers don't look bad at all.
Let me know.
-ryan
------------------ 5+ years on this same swap -- NO engine or transmission failures... Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
I'm using the MSD coil...I'm pretty sure I have 3 bad plugs along the firewall. The easy 3 have NGK UR5's. I always run super as my compression is ~9.8:1. Using ACCEL wire kit as well. Everything points to the 3 plugs. I am using the chip you sent me.
Do you think a Trueleo with a bigger TB will fix the fuel issue if it's the tune and not the plugs? I'd like a 13.1 a/f ratio for the street. I believe this dyno over-loaded the car on the 4th gear pull. It had a list weight of 3000lbs for the fiero. 1800 rear.
Our intake will resolve your rich A/F above 4.5k. Stock intake just wont flow up there. BTW you wont need a bigger TB to see a major dif or bigger injectors. Stock chip should be fine too. You can call me if you have any questions.
BTW: your MSD ignition may be fine, I suspect that very rich A/F ratio to be the cause of misfires. Cant to see it the numbers when you let it breathe!
If you are using stock casting iron heads, even ported they are still going to be the ultimate bottleneck no matter which intake setup you use. I don't think bolting on a trueleo intake is going to automatically solve your problems. Having said that; I doubt the 11:1 - 10.5:1 or so AFR is causing the misfires. It could be, but I have seen many stock applications run far richer than this and never misfire. Seeing as how you haven't changed 3 spark plugs, that is the first place I would look.
Don't get me wrong, no matter what I'm sure you will still need some further tuning to get the AFR's in-line. But as you've said you have not yet changed 3 of your spark plugs. That is the first place I would look for a problem.
On the flow bench our intake flowed enough CFM with a stock iron head to support well over 300HP. The stock intake is the main CFM limiting factor on these engines. The numbers below are easier to read on pur site, the cut and paste didnt work too good. trueleo.com then Fiero intake
Flow-bench numbers for Stock intake and SR14 & LR17 below.
Discontinued: Trueleo Long runner CFM 59.786 111.055 130.26 144.455 146.125
Trueleo Short runner CFM 62.625 114.395 133.6 146.96 146.96
no intake-head CFM 64.295 116.9 133.6 146.96 146.96
On the flow-bench we tested the cylinder head with no intake on it all to get a baseline. We tested the bare cylinder head and intakes at 5 different valve lifts in the above listed amounts. We then tested the stock intake manifold with the results above. The long runner intake and short runner intake were also tested. As you can see with the results, both intakes are improved over stock and the short runner intake will flow as much CFM as no intake on there from .300" lift and above. Pictures on the flow-bench at H.P.WORKS below. BTW we dont make the long runner intakes anymore.
Well, I do believe the Trueleo intake would help over 4200rpm. I'd love to stick an Allante throttle body on it.
I still think I need less fuel below 4200 though.
Please keep in mind I'm running the stock water separator/air silencer, stock air filter (FRAM). I'd like to fix one of the exhaust bends just before the muffler. I'd like to try little tweaks like a K&N, punched out water separator and one of these from Rodney as well:
This is the first nonVVT v6 with a 6 speed to be dynoed. I'm using cast iron heads and also I was told my shortening of the intake would kill my HP which it didn't. We now have and Fiero upper with 3400 lower dyno on the books to compare to. Still running the V6 ECM with an internet tune from Darth. Darth, if you still have me on file, looks like a little less fuel wouldn't hurt if a remap is possible. I'd like 13:1 a/f ratio but will try to get the back plugs changed and the other little things done first.
I'm hoping to coax mtownfiero into doing a '7730 swap for me after I fix my 4.9 engine mount so that I can drive the yellow GT daily while the '7730 w/DIS swap is under way.
This thread is old, but when money and having a daily driver are an on and off issue, that's how it goes...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-12-2009).]
If you are using stock casting iron heads, even ported they are still going to be the ultimate bottleneck no matter which intake setup you use. I don't think bolting on a trueleo intake is going to automatically solve your problems. Having said that; I doubt the 11:1 - 10.5:1 or so AFR is causing the misfires. It could be, but I have seen many stock applications run far richer than this and never misfire. Seeing as how you haven't changed 3 spark plugs, that is the first place I would look.
Don't get me wrong, no matter what I'm sure you will still need some further tuning to get the AFR's in-line. But as you've said you have not yet changed 3 of your spark plugs. That is the first place I would look for a problem.
-ryan
the heads are ported to hell and back and polished and maintain the vane I think the guy did a better job than the falconer heads I've seen pics of...local guy at that...
Just curios to what effect this would have on anything? They ran my car at 3000 or 3100 I forget which and I'd like to know what that would do.
Well as the dyno picks up speed, it adds more resistence to simulate real world conditions. Our cars do not weigh 3000+lbs and I can tell you my car accelerates better in 4th gear on the street than it did on this dyno. In 3rd gear, I was able to overcome the extra load and post closer to what a Dynojet would produce for results...I assume.
Put it this way. I can redline the car on the street in 4th. I couldn't redline the car on the dyno. It was totally overloading me.
the heads are ported to hell and back and polished and maintain the vane I think the guy did a better job than the falconer heads I've seen pics of...local guy at that...
even more reason for a better intake youre just not taking much advantage of most of your mods. BTW:rodney makes a nice thingie to ditch the water sperator for about $15 ? Your engine can exhale great, just gasps when it tries to inhale. should be a great engine when you get it all done.
even more reason for a better intake youre just not taking much advantage of most of your mods. BTW:rodney makes a nice thingie to ditch the water sperator for about $15 ? Your engine can exhale great, just gasps when it tries to inhale. should be a great engine when you get it all done.
I have no doubt that is the case. However, I need to fix the cheap stuff first. With the crimped coolant tubes underneath the car, I had a water pump go bad today, probably since it's been working harder to flow. Fixing those tubes will probably free up some ponies as well (less losses to drive water pump). I'll eventually get Rodney's stuff as well and a K&N and new plugs, then another dyno. Don't expect an order until summer-ish.
I have no doubt that is the case. However, I need to fix the cheap stuff first. With the crimped coolant tubes underneath the car, I had a water pump go bad today, probably since it's been working harder to flow. Fixing those tubes will probably free up some ponies as well (less losses to drive water pump). I'll eventually get Rodney's stuff as well and a K&N and new plugs, then another dyno. Don't expect an order until summer-ish.
Found the same thing the first time i looked under my 87GT. I was amazed the car was not running hot! You just can't leave a fiero for someone to work on without putting a big sign on it warning about those pipes and putting it on a lift.
I have the worst luck. So I replaced the broken axle with the one Archie sent me last year and missed the racing events waiting for a front driver's side bearing from Lee at Held... So I was really looking forward to my event on July 5th. I had done some 3000rpm drop clutches/hard launches since last year and the axle hadn't broken. So I go to warm up my tires which are Competition TA drags now and I wanted to leave a nice smoke show for the crowd so I revved it up to 5k+ rpm and dumped it. Well, something snapped and suddenly I was hitting the rev limiter. I coasted down to the infield on the track. I looked underneath and the axle looked ok. I got towed off and then when I looked at my left rear tire, it was suddenly kicked out on the back side. Looks like Held's wheel bearing failed, locked up and ruined the clutch. Don't know how I coasted before but the act of lifting the car by the tow truck left the wheel cocked and locked. Sway bar looks fine as does the bump-steer corrected custom A-arm from Held.
I have no god-damned luck with this car.
Mtwonfiero started the '7730 conversion yesterday and will finish tomorrow. I am getting it towed to a garage on Monday. I sent Trueleo a check for my intake+TB this week as well and hope to have that in by the end of the month.
Actually, I jacked up the car and when I put it in gear, the driver's side axle spins. The wheel you can jiggle all about. So it looks like the Held Motorsports bearing split in half. The new owner is sending me a new bearing next week. I hope the clutch didn't suffer much damage...
Turns out the axle snapped in the same exact spot as the bearing. Right abot 3/8" infront of the nut that holds the axle to the bearing. I had the knuckle removed to shave 3/16" off of it to get more of the bearing through the splines and not need the spacer.
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known more about your own car this could have been solved before taking your engine in. At least it's driving good now and you're happy with the power of the engine.
