Nice machine work, but that looks *really* thick and heavy... Is that the FWD thickness or RWD thickness?
Look at all four of his pics Will, it's aluminum aparently with a steel friction surface and the back side is recessed so I'm sure it's much lighter than the OE 6 spd flywheel I'm using. I'm going with the 3900 and since both flywheel designs have their pros and cons don't forsee the stock flywheel weight being a significant or noticeable problem. But I agree strongly, nice work.
Hopefully it can be done for a practical price which is a big part of why I started this thread. So far I've had trouble getting rid of my extra G6 clutch assembly so price is still important for an assumed stronger dependable transmission that really hasn't been proven over a test of time yet behind something that can twist it real good.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-20-2007).]
Consider how thin the 5 speed flywheel is. That should be the basis of comparison to how light the 6 speed flywheel can be.
The 5spd flywheel is iron, his is aluminum except for the friction surface, it shouldn't be that much of a difference, perhaps he can weigh them for us.
Thanks... I have been using this independent company for years making flywheels for the 3800 swaps I've done. The bolts used to hold the friction surface in place is the same hardness as the surface it self. The flywheel still comes out to be lighter than a stock fiero one. This is one clutch I use with the 3800 swaps and this will be the same for the 6 speed.
apperantly no one on this thread knows that the axles from a 5 speed cobalt ss supercharged can be used with the 6 speed and bolt right in to the fiero hubs.
apperantly no one on this thread knows that the axles from a 5 speed cobalt ss supercharged can be used with the 6 speed and bolt right in to the fiero hubs.
Apparently someone needs to look back a few posts.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-20-2007).]
The 5spd flywheel is iron, his is aluminum except for the friction surface, it shouldn't be that much of a difference, perhaps he can weigh them for us.
You can buy them in aluminum. I think the stock iron is 14# or so and the SPEC aluminum flywheel is 8-9#. "Lighter than stock" could mean a lot of things.
lets keep this going seem likes the axle issues almost solved. are there any final answers on that. also any mounts in the works for this trans.
I should be home the first week of August to start the 3900 V6/ 6spd swap. I intend to send the cams and one G6 axle off today for regrinds, journal sizing and shortening and resplining of the axle for the driverside today so that it will all be ready by the time I get home.
Apparently someone needs to look back a few posts.
I skimmed the previous posts, but didn't seem to see a definitive answer on the Cobalt axles. Perhaps I just missed it, but has anyone confirmed the Cobalt SS axles will/will not work?
I skimmed the previous posts, but didn't seem to see a definitive answer on the Cobalt axles. Perhaps I just missed it, but has anyone confirmed the Cobalt SS axles will/will not work?
-Darryl
Wow, email is terrible at expressing tact, my remark about needing to look back a few posts wasn't intended as sarcasm though it looks that way from my view of your quoting it. The Cobalt axle length is a better fit than the G6 axle length (axles not the intermediate shaft) and would probably only require a shift to the right to recenter the assembly but it would be close and you might have to remove the clip from the outboard joint and trim off the tapered end of the shaft to allow for more plunge depth since the Cobalt axles are a little longer than the Fiero's shortest axle. You would have to look in the Ecotec swap thread to get the difference.
I was hoping for an over looked quick solution when I finally got around to removing and inspecting the outboard joint on the Saab 9-3 axle I purchased 6 months ago. I didn't bother initially because the inboard joint is unusual in that it has some interlocking mechanism that prevents it from just being pulled out of the plunge cup once the boot clamps are released.
It looked promising at first but after taking it apart and comparing it to the internals from the GM joint I found that the cage is larger and of course the joint cup is also, the bearings are a little bigger also. There is a possibility that a GM joint exists with the larger cage assembly but I'm not sure where to begin looking. I'm waiting for my axle to return from Moser from the resplining process, so maybe it's possible for them to turn the joint spindle down and respline it to match the Fiero outboard joint so that the entire Saab axle can be used on the driverside and the same for the passenger side. The spline count for the joint is 28.
After taking a closer look at the Saab shaft I see there is enough room to respline it to fit the Fiero outboard joint so that's an option to, when the current splined end is cut off the overall axle length will probably be just right.
I went and paid for the 3900 engine today from an 07 Uplander, my brothers truck is not up to the task to pick it up so they are supposed to deliver it tomorrow, I was hoping to be able post preliminary pictures of it today but hopefully it will be delivered early enough for me to start on it in a 3900 swap thread tomorrow. It's an iteresting looking piece of technology.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 08-06-2007).]
Here is my Kevlar clutch disc which is suppose to have excellent wear and holding capacity. I just left the clutch rebuilder, Tampa Clutch Supply, Inc and inquired about having the stock G6 pressure plate spring pressure increased to go along with the disc they made from the stock G6 piece for me, he checked it and said the stock spring pressure of the G6 pressure plate is 2000 lbs, pretty stout and said with the Kevlar combination, making it any stronger would probably be overkill and may affect the release quality so I didn't bother it. He said the Fiero spring pressure is probably about 1400 lbs and it's a smaller disc than what the G6 has.
My shortened and resplined axle is here, I'll have to finish preparing the engine so I can do the build up on the cradle and check clearance.
The axle issue should be a non issue by now given the number of sources and modification options available depending on what you have. The Saturn Redline and Cobalt SS would be the best axle choice and most likely to fit without extensive modifications, however an adaptor plate would need to be made for the intermediate shaft. The G6 axles would be next however the left axle is too long for a direct fit, remember the F40 is ~2" longer on the driver side at the seal, you will also have to swap the outboard joint cup. The Saab 9-3 and 9-5 axles are tubular and can be cut and rewelded together like a drive shaft, but the outboard joint is larger internally so you can't swap the cups around however the splined area of the axle is pretty thick in diameter relative to the fiero's and can possibly be resplined to fit the Fiero joint. I haven't measured the actual diameter.
In the picture is a G6 normal length axle, Fiero axle in the middle and shortened and resplined G6 axle for the driver side. I was a little too lax in giving instructions and the snap ring groove is deeper than it should be and placed a little further back from the end than I wanted but it should be okay.
Now for the shifter, I started with a 4 spd shifter and two gate select shift cables for the 4 speed muncie, the reason being that this cable also the narrower of the two has the right size cup on it for the shift mechanism ball links. I f the cable proves over time to be insufficient for the shifting duty I can ground the bottom off of the stud conneted to the ball, twist it out, tap the hole and install the larger ball for the stronger gear select cable.
Here are the mods made to the shifter:
The tension spring was released from its lock notch because the F40 6 spd has a built in detent spring that holds the shift arm in the 3-4 shift gate..
Next a stop on the shifter, (the little rod with the rubber gromet) don't remove this as it will allow to much forward travel and a sloppy feel.
You maybe able to see where it was here.
Finally the reverse detent has to be adjusted, I put the transmission in reverse then adjusted the detent so that just enough travel necessary for the shifter to stay in the reverse position was allowed, from there I positioned the cable mount at the transmission bracket and welded it in place. I made my bracket adjustable for fine tuning. The gear select is not a problem having excess travel range, the gate select however takes up pretty much the entire range and I may need to grind the slots on the shifter to allow a little more travel to reduce the chance of cable stretch causing a shifting problem.
A real blessing is that no one purchased the 5 speed shifter I put up for sale on Ebay, it served as a perfect source for cable mounts at the transmission.
The cables are from Advance autoparts and cost $60 each. The cables will clear the turbo without a problem. Hopefully the cables are long enough and it isn't necessary for me to look for other options which will be a real hassle.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 12-23-2009).]
I'd personally like to thank Mr. Upson through a chance encoounter on eBAY for turning me on to this thread, now I'm only ½ as lost as before. To my good fortune, I live in an agrocultural area in Central California, and have aquired one gorgeous '87 GT Fasback from a back pasture (thrown rod, automatic tranny $100) and an '86 GT Coupe in fair condition (also back pasture, 4 speed, basically NO engine parts $80). My eventual desire is to install the F40 I've already aquired into the Fastback with the 3550 DOHC (normally aspirated) for my "FUN" car. The Coupe will get a 3.4 pushrod for SCCA club work when time and $$$ allows. I am currently building a Honda CRX for my SCCA work (MUCH cheaper). It's tough being 58 and having to live on a Railroad Pension of only $1800/month. As I see from the thread, I've got my work cut out for me, so if anyone has useful thoughts, they are greatly appreciated. Thanx to all of you Fiero lovers. I became one in '86 when one completly dusted me off a back mountain road on my Benelli Sei motorcycle. Only other whipping that baby took was from a Vincent Black Shadow and I should have known better! Last time I worked on a project car (s) was BC (before children, now grown). Then I played with a coupleof Bug-Eye Sprites. The Army ended that in '69, so I have a lot of catching up to do!....Again Thanx
Welcome to the forum and addiction. I'm at my wits end on my current project with all of the little odds and ends I keep having to round up, but I'm getting there.
Hi joseph, Sorry to be a bother, if it is not much to ask could we get a recap of what parts are needed to make shafts. If it is to much to write out I understand. I tried several times reading and trying to peice together the info that is given. What part is used for the inners to the tranny, ( or are you going to use the custom plugs you made?) what axles and from what car (s) and which side, also what outter is used fiero or something else. I can have shafts made, but to keep cost down and also making them strong enough I would like to be able to offer them as a kit if price is reasonable. I'm working with the people from "ENJO" they make all the import stuff.
Going back to the plug idea, the designer at ENJO said he may be able to get them already made from another application, all we need to know is the diameter of the shaft going into the F40 and spline count, and the other end that goes into the fiero female inner cup/joint?
Hi joseph, Sorry to be a bother, if it is not much to ask could we get a recap of what parts are needed to make shafts. If it is to much to write out I understand. I tried several times reading and trying to peice together the info that is given. What part is used for the inners to the tranny, ( or are you going to use the custom plugs you made?) what axles and from what car (s) and which side, also what outter is used fiero or something else. I can have shafts made, but to keep cost down and also making them strong enough I would like to be able to offer them as a kit if price is reasonable. I'm working with the people from "ENJO" they make all the import stuff.
Going back to the plug idea, the designer at ENJO said he may be able to get them already made from another application, all we need to know is the diameter of the shaft going into the F40 and spline count, and the other end that goes into the fiero female inner cup/joint?
Thanks Joe
Go up about 4 posts and you'll see the sources listed along with some more specific data on the previous page I believe. I'm in the middle of an engine swap and I'm behind and really don't feel up to taking a shot at sorting this out at the moment but the info is here.
I've been following this discussion for some time and since I have ocurried a six speed I now have a personal interest to solve the questions regarding the axles. I have a technical question. Every engine length is different and every engine/trans placement is different if the Getrag isn't used, if a stand location for mounting the six speed isn't determined then every engine would need different lenght axles?
I've been following this discussion for some time and since I have ocurried a six speed I now have a personal interest to solve the questions regarding the axles. I have a technical question. Every engine length is different and every engine/trans placement is different if the Getrag isn't used, if a stand location for mounting the six speed isn't determined then every engine would need different lenght axles?
V8 Archie's tranny location would be the standard since he is the only one manufacturing a kit for the swap. It would however make sense to make the standard location relative to the standard location of the stock engine which I have done so the stock engine is located in the stock position particularly since the axles will be modified or custom in this application anyway, otherwise the additional variation will be whether or not the assembly is tilted forward or backward from straight up.
For the most part the majority of the engine swaps use some form of GM transmission that when fitted with the proper mounts positions the engine's bellhousing mount surface in the same location as the stock 2.8L.
"For the most part the majority of the engine swaps use some form of GM transmission that when fitted with the proper mounts positions the engine's bellhousing mount surface in the same location as the stock 2.8L."
For that reason only, it shows the importance for custom bolt in mount for the six speed. Now location is standard for all swaps.
The axle issue should be a non issue by now given the number of sources and modification options available depending on what you have. The Saturn Redline and Cobalt SS would be the best axle choice and most likely to fit without extensive modifications, however an adapter plate would need to be made for the intermediate shaft.
When you refer to an "adapter plate", are you talking about the intermediate shaft bearing?
I was taking a close look at the six speed and I noticed that there is no dip stick or fill point. Did I over look it? https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/077431-2.html shows a different axle setup. Is this the correct half shaft?
I was taking a close look at the six speed and I noticed that there is no dip stick or fill point. Did I over look it? https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/077431-2.html shows a different axle setup. Is this the correct half shaft?
The fill point is likely at the speed sensor which is easily removed. The sensor uses the final drive teeth (78) for a speed signal. Look through the thread and you'll get the info on what axles will work so far as we have discovered.
I spoke to my local Pontiac parts guy just to get an idea on the price of G6 6spd axles. The driver's side axle is $300.00. The intermediate shaft is $154.00 and the passenger side axle is $310.00. I know how you guys feel about cutting and welding axles but i'll like to take to some experts before i rule it completely.
I spoke to my local circle track engineering company and they said that they couldn't respline axles but they have had great success welding them in the past. I think i'm going to try welding a set and then if break i'll just weld them back together and send them to moser and tell them to duplicate them.
There are possibly many axles that could be combined to make this a drop in swap but I don't have the resources or know anyone who ownes a axles (cv) shop. I can just explore the possibilities.
The problem is not the axle, It's the unique inboard joint Tripot roller bearing wheel size and or the unique inboard joint stub size. There are other 33 spline shafts to fit the joints as well as interchangeable outboard joint internal parts but to my knowledge not for the inboard. The F40 and F35 have offset final drives so you have to use the jackshaft on the passengerside since a joint will not insert fully into it.
Welding is not a problem and should work very well provided as mentioned earlier in the thread you use Saab tubular shafts, and with resplining to accept the Fiero outboard joint you may be able to use the Saab shaft at least on the passenger side with just that modification depending on the length of the axle, otherwise cutting and rewelding would be needed to finish it.
The easiest path would be to acquire the G6 right side axle and intermediate shaft which so far appears to fit in the Fiero as is just fine with the joint swap. The left side axle will need to be shortened by about 2" where in I had mine cut and resplined by Moser.
If you deal with Moser be sure to ask for Mike and deal with Mike only, be sure to put every possible measurement you can think of on your modification request because certain staff talked to me as if they were doing me a favor since they were working with a CV axle shaft instead of a rear wheel drive shaft which makes no difference considering the process is the same. Despite being told to move the splined area in to the specified location, the person doing the work made the snap ring groove wider and deeper than the original which made no sense given it was supposed to be copied and possibly compromised strength since the fuse area (snap ring groove) is larger should enough torque be produced to load the distal splines from the groove.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 09-20-2007).]
Ok, in reading, and emailing you, it was stated that the Saab 9-5 intermediate shaft may work with the F40. Am I right in this? I am still waiting to pick up the transmission (hopefully in the next couple weeks) but I do have a 99 saab 9-5 intermediate shaft, and will be getting the axles as well this weekend.
I also wanted to know if the Saturn Ion Redline intermediate shaft and axles may be of use for this? I have a line on a set of those at a decent price, and was wondering if I should pick them up if they may work. Also, would the regular 2005 Ion axles be compatable?
03 and up Saab cars that use the F35 and F40, if the car does not use either of these transmissions chances are the axles will not work. The supercharged Saturn and Cobalt use the F35 so standard model axles will not work. The G6 is the only car that has an intermediate shaft that will bolt to the 60 degree V6, all others require adaptors. More specific information can be found in earlier posts.
So I recieved my set of Cobalt axles in the mail today and they have 34 splines on the inner joint, with a maximum diameter of 1.06 inches. Also most notable there is no inner shaft on the right hand side, just one long axle shaft. They are supposed to be from a 2007 cobalt 5 speed manual. Is there more than one manual transmission offered in the Cobalt, or did I just get shipped the completely wrong axles? Sorry for the lack of pictures.
There is more than one transmission that the cobalt uses. You need to get axles from a supercharged ss version, it sound's like you just got regular ones.
The fill point is likely at the speed sensor which is easily removed. The sensor uses the final drive teeth (78) for a speed signal. Look through the thread and you'll get the info on what axles will work so far as we have discovered.
This is not correct. It has a fill hole at the top (see arrow below). A new unit will come without the cap so you have to order that at the dealer. To fill you take the cap located lower on the side (labeled 1 in pic) and fill until fluid comes out of it. That's the correct fluid level.
