The cables are from Advance autoparts and cost $60 each. The cables will clear the turbo without a problem. Hopefully the cables are long enough and it isn't necessary for me to look for other options which will be a real hassle.
that is awefully close to the trubo. i would add some aluminum shielding around the cables near the turbo so the outer shealth doesnt melt.. just my 1/2 cent
Oh and a question: I allready have a machined down camaro flywheel that I was going to us on my L67 mated to the 4sp V6 Muncie. Is there any use for this this machined flywheel if I decide to go with an F40 G6 6Sp instead of the muncie??
Oh and a question: I allready have a machined down camaro flywheel that I was going to us on my L67 mated to the 4sp V6 Muncie. Is there any use for this this machined flywheel if I decide to go with an F40 G6 6Sp instead of the muncie??
Iwan
I believe it would have been of better use to you before it was turned down since the required flywheel is thicker than the Fiero's. I'm not sure how close it gets you to the required thickness.
With all the troubles shortening axles, I was wondering if increasing rear trackwidth should be considered? On an 88 it should not be so difficult using longer links and coilovers. At the moment I run 25mm spacers in the back because the 88 front needs large offset wheels..
So the real question is: is there a combinaton of axles (from different donor vehicles perhaps) that can be used without cutting or resplining , and by how much would that increase the trackwidth? (is it acceptable or no way around cutting and resplining?
With all the troubles shortening axles, I was wondering if increasing rear trackwidth should be considered? On an 88 it should not be so difficult using longer links and coilovers. At the moment I run 25mm spacers in the back because the 88 front needs large offset wheels..
So the real question is: is there a combinaton of axles (from different donor vehicles perhaps) that can be used without cutting or resplining , and by how much would that increase the trackwidth? (is it acceptable or no way around cutting and resplining?
Thanks in advance Iwan
You can probably use the axles from the Cobalt SS directly on both sides by securing the intermediate shaft to the engine since it has a different mount than the G6 intermediate shaft and is also female ended. I'm using the stock G6 axles on the passenger side with an outboard cup change to fit the hub. As a result of the transmissions position on the cradle, I believe there maybe enough room to use the stock axle from the Cobalt SS on the driver side which I intend to try at some point.
Got on some cobalt SS forums looking for axle info. It seems the axles are a weak point of this car and a lot of owners are replacing them. new stronger versions run around $700. A lot of money in my book.......guesse the weaker stock axles of the cobalt SS should be cheap though, which is good news if you want the axles to be the weakest link thus sparing other hard parts.
From the little I read the problem involves abuse regarding the member who broke two axles and indicated they had been subjected to multiple 5k clutch dumps, a possible design change after 04 where it was stated that GM increased the amount of taper on the shaft going into the joint and it doesn't appear these guys are running stock power levels either. Another issue is there is a near 400 lb difference between the 04 and 05 Saturn redline, the Cobalt SS debuted in 05 and it's even heavier than the redline, the base 04 Ion is heavier than the same year Redline, in 05 the base model was made even heavier. The base Cobalt and SS weighs about the same regardless 2991 lbs.
In 04 GM probably figured out that little car was to darn fast and immediately slapped a near 400 lb wt penalty on the following year and started the SS off with even more weight to slow them down especially given how little effort it would take to make such a small and easily accessible car very, very quick. The axles are probably purposely made to break once a certain power level is reached to discourage this.
The Subaru WRX for 05 has 25 more hp and 17 more lb/ft than the Redline and SS but it also weighs 3126 lbs. The STi model is 300/300 at 3298 lbs, these little cars are fast.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 03-22-2008).]
From the little I read the problem involves abuse regarding the member who broke two axles and indicated they had been subjected to multiple 5k clutch dumps, a possible design change after 04 where it was stated that GM increased the amount of taper on the shaft going into the joint and it doesn't appear these guys are running stock power levels either. Another issue is there is a near 400 lb difference between the 04 and 05 Saturn redline, the Cobalt SS debuted in 05 and it's even heavier than the redline, the base 04 Ion is heavier than the same year Redline, in 05 the base model was made even heavier. The base Cobalt and SS weighs about the same regardless 2991 lbs.
In 04 GM probably figured out that little car was to darn fast and immediately slapped a near 400 lb wt penalty on the following year and started the SS off with even more weight to slow them down especially given how little effort it would take to make such a small and easily accessible car very, very quick. The axles are probably purposely made to break once a certain power level is reached to discourage this.
The Subaru WRX for 05 has 25 more hp and 17 more lb/ft than the Redline and SS but it also weighs 3126 lbs. The STi model is 300/300 at 3298 lbs, these little cars are fast.
Never thought about it that way. Thanks for that post.
It makes sense to make a relatively "cheap" breakaway part, rather than engine, or tranny. For us Fiero owners $700 is a lot of money, but people with Cobalts, Evo's, Gti's, Sti's, Honda's, have the cash to burn. That means we could use their "old" axles. I guess the old adage of "in nature nothing is ever lost" holds true.
I'm going to try to buy a set of stock weak cobalt ss axles for testfitting (still need a f40 though...) If all fits perfect I guesse I'll use it untill it breaks, then its time to upgrade to stronger cobalt ss axles..
[This message has been edited by fiero-iwan (edited 03-23-2008).]
I got your PM and responded. For the rest of you guys and gals.
Joe still has F40 trannies available. We are at the moment looking into shipping from Canada 2 Netherlands. looks to be around $400 shipping. Seems fair. Joe is doing a really good Job for me and responds quickly to PM's. I Just needed to say that for any others looking to buy a F40 trans. Joe is your man. He also has a custom flywhweel and clutch set for this trannie that he sells. I 've run out off cash though for the moment. Should be worth it though for those 6 strong gearzz with no worries of sudden tranny failure.
Iwan
quote
Originally posted by Team Race-Tech: Iwan, did you get my P.M. I too ordered some cobalt SS axles, I'll see how they'll work out too.
The Cobalt SS axles do fit the F40 6spd with no problems. My trans is out of the car so I can't tell you about axle lenght or fit at the bearings. As far as I'm concern once the axle fits the trans you could custom everything else. The jack shaft uses a SAAB part number 12788651 M5. I hope this helps anyone else thinking about doing this swap.
The Cobalt SS axles do fit the F40 6spd with no problems. My trans is out of the car so I can't tell you about axle lenght or fit at the bearings. As far as I'm concern once the axle fits the trans you could custom everything else. The jack shaft uses a SAAB part number 12788651 M5. I hope this helps anyone else thinking about doing this swap.
Is that Colbalt SS a manual, 5 speed or 6 speed or auto?
------------------ DONE: 86gt 5 speed 4.9 complete rebuild with buds outback northstar pistons , delta cams E303 cam , full ported , polished , stronger head springs, and flow tested heads and manifolds. rockcrawl's custom chip , polished crank . too much to list
Hang in there, I'll be posting the revised 4 speed shifter modifications for the swap in a day or two. My corrections have made it much, much better than what it was previously.
Hey joe, Just wondering if you changed the outer joint to lets say a Cobalt SS or any other Gm smaller joint on a stock G6 axles, shift the entire engine and trans assembly to one direction to compensate for the different length axles would it then be a bolt in? Going over your post I don't think there wasn't any mention of it.
I was kind of hoping I could muster together all the info about specific Spline sizes of the different compatible axles, and other technical data relating to the axles for this transmission. I have one of these transmissions on the way now. I'm hoping Mr. Upson can give the low down about the axle specifics, spline counts, diameters... ect. I know some of that info is here in this thread, but its not very organized.
I am not as far along as some, but I can confirm that the Cobalt SS axles will fit into the F 40 on the inboard side and into the stock fiero hub bearings on the outboard side. I only have the Passenger side Jackshaft and axle (still looking for the drivers side) but the length is at least very close. Of course I don't have the other side axle yet so I may be way off, but at least both ends fit properly.
I am not as far along as some, but I can confirm that the Cobalt SS axles will fit into the F 40 on the inboard side and into the stock fiero hub bearings on the outboard side. I only have the Passenger side Jackshaft and axle (still looking for the drivers side) but the length is at least very close. Of course I don't have the other side axle yet so I may be way off, but at least both ends fit properly.
Mike
I'm already using cobalt ss axle parts with my F40 northstar setup. The passenger side and drivers side axle for the cobalt are identical if that helps you with your mockup. Because of the mounting location needed with the northstar I had to use custom length axle shafts but am using a cobalt intermediate shaft and inner joints and the fiero outer joints. The cobalt outer joints will work aswell but they are smaller and less beefy than the stock fiero.
I'm already using cobalt ss axle parts with my F40 northstar setup. The passenger side and drivers side axle for the cobalt are identical if that helps you with your mockup. Because of the mounting location needed with the northstar I had to use custom length axle shafts but am using a cobalt intermediate shaft and inner joints and the fiero outer joints. The cobalt outer joints will work aswell but they are smaller and less beefy than the stock fiero.
Is the problem not being able to get the Northstar far enough to the passenger side without hitting the strut tower, therefore you need custom axles? I too am using the Northstar and that is the only clearance issue that looks like I might have. Is yours an 88 or earlier?
Thanks for the axle info, that does help. BTW, would you think that means I could use a second passenger side axle in place of the yet to be found drivers side? I've been unable so far to find a complete set, so I'm picking them up one at a time as I see them.
Yes, the engine would need to be moved to the passenger side quite far which might result in clearance issues with the rear springs. My car is an 88. A passenger side axle would work just fine in place of a drivers side.
My focus and passion has been with completing the 3900 Tune being at a point where the car can actually be driven and has since improved performance wise tremendously though there is still a good bit of tuning left before I reach the goal of at least 12 psi.
The best option in my opinion for axles is to simply have a custom axle made for the driver side, using the Fiero Manual trans outboard joint because the autos are smaller and the G6, Cobalt SS, or Saturn Redline inboard joint. There are a few Chrysler axles on some of the full size cars Concord and LHS whatever models that have the same spline count "axle shaft". Moser can cut and respline a stock heavy duty axle such as what is found on the above mentioned cars at very reasonable price as shown from an excerpt of their site below. You should talk to Mike and be very, very, very, very specific and insistent that they match the sample you need to provide or the individual doing the mod will screw up the snap ring groove by cutting it like a rear axle lock ring groove and that will make you sorry once you snap the joint on and can't get it off because the snap ring has moved eccentrically in the excessive groove depth and pemanently locked the joint on the axle shaft.
So simply disassemble your current axle and send the shaft in with at least one female sample as a spline tester, Fiero joint hub and inboard joint hub (the actual roller hubs that fit on the axle shaft), insist that they not loose any of the parts and have them duplicate the axle in the length that you want. If you start with a Chrysler axle you may only need to have them cut and spline the joint end, it's been a while since I looked at my sample.
We can cold spline almost any shaft up to 60 Rockwell in hardness that has enough material to cut full depth splines. Our machining capabilities include shafts up to 3" in diameter and lengths up to 48". All resplining is done cold so no annealing or heat treatment is required.
Single Axle $65 each
One Pair $110 pair
2 to 5 pair (at the same time) $100 pair
6 or more pair (at the same time) $90 pair
I'll get around to posting the pics of the shifter mods I performed on the shifter.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 05-31-2008).]
Joseph, for all of us who interested in the 3800 swap; can the place that made your fly wheel make them for us or do you know of a place that can? It can be dual mass or based on the stock 3800 flywheel but made from aluminum. Thanks "I'm already using cobalt ss axle parts with my F40 northstar setup. The passenger side and drivers side axle for the cobalt are identical if that helps you with your mockup." That kind of information is huge when searching for parts.
Joseph, for all of us who interested in the 3800 swap; can the place that made your fly wheel make them for us or do you know of a place that can? It can be dual mass or based on the stock 3800 flywheel but made from aluminum. Thanks "I'm already using cobalt ss axle parts with my F40 northstar setup. The passenger side and drivers side axle for the cobalt are identical if that helps you with your mockup." That kind of information is huge when searching for parts.
No mock up, my F40 is installed and has been beat on a little already. I'm using a stock G6 flywheel with a custom clutch disc. The flywheel assembly is heavy but it makes up for the weight between shifts with inertia by keeping the rpm up. What I would have done had I thought about it is have some metal milled off the back side of the flywheel to lighten it by a few pounds.
For those who maybe thinking about the Saab F40 and the GM 3.6 DOHC it appears though I haven't confirmed it that in addition to sharing the same bellhousing pattern they also share the same flywheel bolt pattern from pictures that I observed.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-01-2008).]
I have a 1996 northstar that I'm currently working on in my 88GT T-Top. I'm using 1 inch lower Getrag tranny brackets compared to stock. With the tranny being lower, the getrag can remain in its stock location with minor modification to the passenger strut tower. Because it sits lower, your engine sits lower as well. I have about 1/4 inch from the cradle to the left side of the oil pan on the northstar. So, I had to modify the cradle to allow the N* to sit that low. What I also needed was another !/4 inch more clearance between the N* and the strut tower. Ball ping hammer and it was done. So, I think you could get away without custom length axels as I'm doing now with stock GM fiero axels.
Originally posted by IXSLR8: I have a 1996 northstar that I'm currently working on in my 88GT T-Top. I'm using 1 inch lower Getrag tranny brackets compared to stock. With the tranny being lower, the getrag can remain in its stock location with minor modification to the passenger strut tower. Because it sits lower, your engine sits lower as well. I have about 1/4 inch from the cradle to the left side of the oil pan on the northstar. So, I had to modify the cradle to allow the N* to sit that low. What I also needed was another !/4 inch more clearance between the N* and the strut tower. Ball ping hammer and it was done. So, I think you could get away without custom length axels as I'm doing now with stock GM fiero axels.
Are you using the 282 trans? Most ppl here are speaking of putting the F4o into the cars w/ the N*, not the stock 282 so custom axles are required.
I guess the old adage of "in nature nothing is ever lost" holds true. 
