Yes, the engine would need to be moved to the passenger side quite far which might result in clearance issues with the rear springs. My car is an 88. A passenger side axle would work just fine in place of a drivers side.
Do you know how much you wound up moving the N*/Transmission assembly from where the stock cobalt axles would have put it?
Originally posted by thestackpole: Do you know how much you wound up moving the N*/Transmission assembly from where the stock cobalt axles would have put it?
I know little to nothing about the Northstar swap myself but this might help with your question, the need to shift the assembly to the right is the result of the F40 axle seal locations relative to the Fiero trans. The shaft output location is 2" further to the left on the left side of the F40 and 1" further to the left on the right side of the tranny, this does not take into account the passenger side axle location as placed by the jack-shaft, however it is clear that the driver side axle in theory would need to be about 2" shorter than the stock Fiero axle in that location. I would certainly opt for a custom axle instead.
The G6 axles are longer than the cobalt axle and it has a male-ended jack-shaft instead of female such as what is found on the Cobalt and Saab cars using a similar axle.
I have to appologize for having not yet posted the pictures of my shifter modifications and I will get to it sooner or later. Just wanted to mention that there appears to be a gear change in the AWD Saab F40 for 2009 that if parts are still interchangeable and from the picture that hides what the output end looks like, it appears they are, the tranny just got stronger; 295 lb/ft max engine and gearbox torque, 5423 lb gross vehicle weight, up from 3527 lbs. It's wishful thinking as far as parts availability but for those planning on building a 600 hp Fiero (me) in the not to distant future it's an important find.
The gearing got worse and better at the same time, 1st: 3.769 to 3.917, 2,3,4 and 5 the same, 6th; .707 to .740 and final drive; 3.55 to 3.762. If the final drive makes it easy enough to pull off second gear starts then it's a 5 spd in a Fiero.
I know very little about gear interchange as far as the ability to mix and match ratios independently with each gear, but if it's possible there are three or four different gear configs now counting the first Saab gearbox although it was close to the 06 in the G6.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-28-2008).]
If that's true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then 1st will top out at like 10 mph. That's ridiculous!!! Why does GM screw everything up? Why bother making a 6 speed if one or more of the gears is going to be useless?
If that's true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then 1st will top out at like 10 mph. That's ridiculous!!! Why does GM screw everything up? Why bother making a 6 speed if one or more of the gears is going to be useless?
/ GM rant
It's not without merit, consider the strength(less) legacy of the fwd transaxle, then imagine what dumping the clutch on one in 1st gear would be like in a 5423 lb car. Something has to give and it's not likely the tires in an AWD platform. That's a Saab specific tranny that was designed with that gearing because it is being used in a heavier car than usual according to documentation. It also drops the GME prefix suggesting it's not a GM directed change. The final drive would make things nicer in the current G6 tranny barring 1st. It works for me because I'm pulling to redline above 6k rpm.
It's not without merit, consider the strength(less) legacy of the fwd transaxle, then imagine what dumping the clutch on one in 1st gear would be like in a 5423 lb car. Something has to give and it's not likely the tires in an AWD platform. That's a Saab specific tranny that was designed with that gearing because it is being used in a heavier car than usual according to documentation. It also drops the GME prefix suggesting it's not a GM directed change. The final drive would make things nicer in the current G6 tranny barring 1st. It works for me because I'm pulling to redline above 6k rpm.
Understood. Everybody has different goals. I like my brother's Z28 where he has 5 gears for driving / racing / etc. and 6th for mileage. The ratio is like 0.5:1; I don't remember the final. Anyway, it hits 2000 rpm at about 82 mph. To many that may sound stupid, until I tell you that I got 30 mpg on a full tank driving 90+ mph on the highway. Again, everybody has different goals.
I was thinking that they would put the same trans in the G6 (and possibly many other cars) and it would get significantly worse gas mileage because of the gearing. In Europe, most cars are manuals because they get better mileage with them. Here, because of the asinine gearing, the autos and manuals get about the same, at least according to the EPA numbers.
The '94-'02 Z28 uses a 0.74:1 fifth and a 0.50:1 sixth with a 3.416666667:1 axle, and the tires are 25.7" dia. As a side note, most of these guys switch to a 3.73:1 or 4.10:1 axle ratio, but there are other choices for them.
I know very little about gear interchange as far as the ability to mix and match ratios independently with each gear, but if it's possible there are three or four different gear configs now counting the first Saab gearbox although it was close to the 06 in the G6.
I looked through Saab service literature when the trans first came out and 1st and 2nd are both integral to the input shaft, just like all previous transverse gearboxes.
Originally posted by Will: I looked through Saab service literature when the trans first came out and 1st and 2nd are both integral to the input shaft, just like all previous transverse gearboxes.
Does that mean the 5th and 6th gear are interchangeable along with the final drive?
As some of you might know, I am using the F40 in my own V8 swap -- a V8 into a 2nd generation (91-95 body style) Toyota MR2.
Anyway, I am attempting to get a handle on the axle situation, because as you can imagine, my axle problems are both the same and different than yours (I have to use use the outboard Rzeppa joints of the MR2).
If anyone has any corrections or additions to the following info, please let me know
quote
Summary of F40 info by CBulen: The 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP F40 (MT2) is related to the F35 used in the 2005-2006 Chevy Cobalt SS and Saturn Ion Redline. The F40 was originally used in the Saab 9-5 cars, and that version of the trans (possibly) has a different bellhousing and bellhousing bolt pattern. GM decided to change the ratios for 2007 (now called the F40 MU9), and liquidated their stocks of 2006 (MT2) F40’s so they are for sale very cheap, everywhere (at least for a while). Another potential reason for the liquidation is gear rattle in neutral of the 2006 F40, and possibly one other problem that G6 owners have complained about – a possibility of the trans popping out of gear, but this appears to have been fixed by changing the cables, by adding a 3rd cable.
Axles: Obviously, Pontiac G6 GTP (manual trans) axles can be used, but they are very rare used, but can be purchased new for about $650 for all 3 axles. The intermediate shaft of the Pontiac G6 GTP is male splined on both ends, and uses Tripod style inboard CV joints, and Rzeppa outer joints.
22668353 intermediate axle shaft (G6) (MU9, but should work for the MT2—needs verification) 10357933 passenger side axle (G6) 10357932 Driver's side axle (G6)
The axles made for the F35 have the same spline, and shaft dimensions where the axle plugs into the trans, so they will fit the F40, however, the Cobalt SS’s are experiencing a high number of axle breakages. So many that there is an aftermarket manufacturer of axles. The Driveshaft Shop makes them, and Intense Racing is the exclusive dealer: http://intense-racing.com/M...y_Code=LSJ_Transaxle
The Saab and Cobalt SS use a different axles and intermediate shaft than the Pontiac G6. The Saab and Cobalt SS intermediate shaft is male on the trans end, and female on the passenger side (right). The Colbalt SS and the Saabs use the same axles left and right, hence the female end on the intermediate shaft. Please note that it is unknown if the Cobalt SS and Saab’s use the same axles and intermediate shaft. The prior statements mean that they are similar in general features, but my not be in actual dimensions. The Saab 9-3 and 9-5 have different track widths (9-5 is wider), which implies that they use different axles and intermediate shafts, within the Saab family, despite using the same F40 trans.
There is an aftermarket Quaife Limited Slip differential available for the Saab F40, which internally is the same, and it has been verifed that the LSD will fit the GM F40. At the time of this writing, it is over 550 british pounds (about $1100 usd), and shipping is on top of that, along with Britsh Value Added Tax (VAT the UK name for Sales Tax). http://www.quaife.co.uk/Saa...box-ATB-differential
PATRICK TRAGESER PARTS DIRECTOR PATRIOT BUICK PONTIAC GMC 22668353 is the inter shaft for a MU9 trans 10357933 is pass side drive shaft for an MT2 10357932 is d/s drive shaft for an MT2
The 22668353 is the intermediate shaft that comes with the bearing and support, but I am unsure as to what numbers you need for the shift cables as MU9’s and MT2’s are different. Patrick
Koolgtz https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/078656-7.html The 2006 5spd Cobalt SS axles do fit the F40 6spd with no problems. My trans is out of the car so I can't tell you about axle lenght or fit at the bearings. As far as I'm concern once the axle fits the trans you could custom everything else. The jack shaft uses a SAAB part number 12788651 M5. I hope this helps anyone else thinking about doing this swap.
The F40 originated in the Saab back as early as 2003 in the 9-3 series so proper fit is assured, the most encouraging thing about the Saab axles is that they apparently share the same spline configuration on the automatics also and the 9-5 from what someone mentioned earlier has either a longer version of the same axles or stronger or both. Since the joint ends of the shafts themselves are pretty thick they can probably be turned down and resplined and as I mentioned earlier because of the tubular designed shaft they are okay to weld on.
The Saab axles are more abundant at a good price as opposed buying a brand new G6 axle and paying to have it modified. The last pictures posted are of the G6 axle attached to its intermediate shaft.
Zac Brown The axles and intermediate shaft that i'm using [in my Fiero V8 swap] came front a 2005 Cobalt SS with the supercharged engine. The Saturn Ion redline uses the same axles as well. Make sure when you get them that they came from a car with the 2.0L supercharged engine as that uses the F35 transmission. The drivers side and passenger side axles are identical so dont worry if you cant find one of each. The G6 uses a female tulip and a male intermediate shaft for the passenger side, where as the cobalt uses a female intermediate shaft and a male tulip. So they are not interchangeable. I got all of my axle parts from Ed Morad at Morads auto parts on ebay. He was very very helpful and they just so happen to have an intermediate shaft for sale right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...6QQitemZ330236568482 As far as the stock cobalt axles holding up to the torque, i'm not sure. I made my axles from a single fiero axle and had splines re-machined onto the end. The narrowest part on the stock cobalt axles is .890" in diameter which is only .100" smaller than the fiero axles I modified. My axles are holding up just fine and my motor is producing about 390hp and 365ftlbs of torque at the flywheel. Hope that helps, Zac Brown. Tim Kalinin [6 speed into a Pontiac Grandam project http://www.grandamgt.com/fo...owthread.php?t=73212 ] Well from the digging that I did, as far as I know, the only difference between the MU9 and the MT2 is the gear ratios for the first 3 or 4 gears. as far as everything else, it should all be the same. the shifter cables did come with 2 different part #'s though. For the MU9 and the MT2, but if you read the GM updates they talk about an addition to the cables from the 06' G6 to the 07' G6 that prevents the shifter from popping out of gear, I guess that must have been an issue and that's why they changed the cables and thus the part #'s, but I would venture to guess they're interchangable. I have all the part #'s listed on the forum, the ones that I got at least. i was going to mention that and I totally forgot, yes, it's an assembly, bearing, mount and axle. I have a pic of everything:
another thing you can dig more into is finding some Saab axles. I read on a fiero forum that a Saab ( i think it was a 9-5) used the same f40 tranny so the ends on that would work as well.
I tried a bunch of junk yards and no one had any G6 GXP. only the automatic 5 speeds which are totally different.
The axles were a big chunk of money that i spend on this besides the clutch assembly. Good luck. Let me know if you need any other info. I have a bunch of pics from the swap on www.photobucket.com there's a link on www.grandamgt.com Tim Kalinin
Clutch Master Cylinder The end that plugs into the slave cylinder is not available separate from the master Cylinder assembly. Fortunately, I found that other years and models of GM cars shared the same slave cylinder, and consequently, the end that plugs into the slave Cyl can be obtained for a different car. (See cars listed below, 2.2L with a manual 5-speed). OLDSMOBILE ALERO (2000 - 2004) PONTIAC GRAND AM (2000 - 2004)
I did some more measuring of my engine and the G6 axles I have. I have pretty much decided that the only way this is going to work for my particular project is to use a permanent angle on the axles, and put the center of differential 2 or more inches ahead of the hub centerlines. This is because my engine is too wide near the crank pulley, and just behind the crank pulley—the area were the intermediate shaft support bearing is normally attached to an engine on a transverse setup. That’s what I get for using an odd-ball engine, but I don’t have any other viable choices. I don’t know if the OEM Fieros have a permanent angle on their axles, but the 91-99 MR2 turbo does (but it uses an intermediate shaft as well). However, its not very much of an angle. The MR2 na (normally aspirated) uses a completely different enging/block and trans, and has no intermediate shaft. Just a long pass side shaft.
So, as I see it, here are my options.
1) Option 1: No intermediate shaft or support bearing. I simply buy another driver side axle (or just the Tulip), and shove it into the pass side of the trans. I shined a strong light into both side and it appears to be exactly the same as far as the splines, and the retaining clip. It looks like the axle goes all the way through the splines, and the retaining clip springs out after it passes through, locking the shaft into the differential. I took the retaining clip off of my driver axle, and experimented with plugging it in both sides. The only thing I have to deal with is the pass side seal on the trans. I can either find another seal that has the right OD and ID, or I can have a ring machined to slip onto the shaft, to bring its diameter up to seal ID. This option is probably the cheapest, simplest (always a good thing), easiest, and yields the lowest permanent angle on the pass side CV joints.
2) Shorten the G6 intermediate shaft into a stub shaft. One option I have for the passenger side is to have the G6 intermediate shaft shortened (or have a whole new short shaft made) splined on both ends, so that the G6 tulip I have slips on. Then I just need a really long passenger side axle. However, I can do it two ways:
2A) Keep the axle spline, and shorten/respline for the trans spline – probably cheaper as there would be less machining involved than option 1B I found that the G6 axle has a taper near where the support bearing is on the shaft. The taper is on the other side of the bearing from the splined end (axle spline). This taper adds about an inch to how short I can make the intermediate shaft, and I need to get it as short as possible. Shorter = better because it would require less permanent angle on the Tulip joint.
2B) Keep the other end of the shaft (trans spline), and have it shortened and resplined for the axle side, and I am pretty sure I will have to have a new bearing register machined as well. However, this would allow me to put the intermediate shaft bearing right up against the axle seal on the trans case. Sort of like that aftermarket support bearings Fiero guys put on the Getrags. I think this will be more expensive to machine because now I have to have 3 grooves (2 snap rings, and one O-ring), and the bearing register, as well as the splines.
3) My third option is to get the 1998-2007 Saab 9-5 axles (I found a lot of confusion with the 9-3, as they seemed to have switched axles in 2004), and have the hollow intermediate shaft shortened. I studied the photos of the Saab axles, and I realized that because the left and right axles are the same, they use the same male tulip, so the length of that shaft that is part of the Tulip will determine how short I can make the hollow intermediate shaft. It can only be shortened to some minimum length. Measuring the male G6 tulip I have (I assume the shaft part of the Tulip is the same as the Saab axle, as they both fit the same tranny on the same side of the trannny), showed I need about ½ inch more than option 2a (and ½ inch less than option 2B).
Questions:
1) Can Moser machine/cut/respline the shaft of a male axle Tulip ? I am predicting that the Tulip itself gets in the way, if they attempt to chuck it into a lathe or a spline cutter. 2) What is the diameter of the Fiero long (pass side) axle ?
I was originally typing this as an e-mail to Joseph Upson, but I realized its too long for that.
[This message has been edited by CBulen (edited 09-09-2008).]
F40 ratios: initial release = MT2 = 3.77/2.04/1.32/0.95/0.76/0.62 with 3.55:1 final. then they revised them to: 3.769/2.040/1.365/1.04?/0.85?/0.707, but still with 3.55:1 final.
Anyway, I need some info. Possibly Joseph or someone can answer this:
What is the difference in lengths on all three parts of the G6 axles compared to the Saab 9-3 axles? I have a set of G6 axles, but I am wondering if I could use the Saab axles, but I don't have a set. I would like to find out without having to purchase the axles.
I need shorter axles. I know the G6 axles can be shortened, but I am wondering if the saab 9-3 axles could be used ?
Also, what is the spline count and OD on the Saab 9-3 axles, at the ends where they plug into the races, at the outer ends (Rzeppa non-plunging joints) ?
Anyway, I need some info. Possibly Joseph or someone can answer this:
What is the difference in lengths on all three parts of the G6 axles compared to the Saab 9-3 axles? I have a set of G6 axles, but I am wondering if I could use the Saab axles, but I don't have a set. I would like to find out without having to purchase the axles.
I need shorter axles. I know the G6 axles can be shortened, but I am wondering if the saab 9-3 axles could be used ?
Also, what is the spline count and OD on the Saab 9-3 axles, at the ends where they plug into the races, at the outer ends (Rzeppa non-plunging joints) ?
You should be able to find some info on the outboard joint count earlier in this thread near the picture of the Saab axle and jackshaft. The Saab axles would be perfect for shortening due to their tubular design but you would likely run into a problem with the outboard joint. The Saturn and Cobalt (supercharged/turbocharged models with the F35 5 spd) are closest to the Fiero axle stock lengths for a reference point and are shorter than the G6 axles. Custom axles are a good way to go if you already have the joints. Shortening the G6 axles and resplining them depends on how short you need them due to the taper of the shaft below mininmum thickness needed going into the joint.
Hi, Sorry if I missed it but did anyone ever figure out exactly how much thicker the flywheel needs to be going from a Getrag to a F40? WCF says they'll make a flywheel as thick or thin as I want for my V8 project for the same price and I'd really rather not use a spacer.
[This message has been edited by fiero_addict (edited 01-29-2009).]
I am doing research for my SBC/F40 swap (I know there is a kit, but want to doing it my way) I came across this:
Pontiac Torrent/Chevy Equinox DS axle:
Ponatiac G6 F40 DS axle:
The Torrent axle looks to have the same inboard tripod as the G6, but the outboard is a 33 spline and might be Fiero hub compatible. The Torrent axle is 1/8" longer, but these will probably need to be cut down anyway...
******************************************************************* UPDATE: the 33 spline on the Torrent/Equinox axle is HUGE and will not fit a fiero, but the Inboard joint does fit the F40 - more details a few posts down *******************************************************************
I just purchased one and will let you know what I find from a compatibility standpoint.
Also, here is a good website with axle info (and lists the G6 axle as available - part number is in pic above)... might be cheaper than the $200 GM wants for it. http://www.empius.com/2008_.../driveaxles_pg1.html
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 04-01-2009).]
I have faith. I just bought one. I nearly decided to wait when I saw they had 99 of them, but if I wait, my finances may change, so I got mine while I knew I could.
I am hoping mine will be here in a day or two and can confirm if it will fit - I wouldn't recommend spending and $$ on it till I confirm it... that way just I am out some R&D $$.
I also have a different set of axles (complete set) coming to me used for $125. If either of these pan out, I should be good with my axles (aside from resplining them).
Both the Torrent/Equinox and my 1999 Saab 9-5 axles showed up today....
The Torrent/equanox axle has the correct inboard joint to fit the DS of the F40, but the outer 33 spline is HUGE and will not fit a Fiero wheel bearing. Both of these are 33 spline, the smaller one is Fiero compatible:
The inboard tripod that fits the F40 is stamped with part # EMPI GM 235-2-506. This tripod should be able to be purchased cheap (whole axle is under $60) and it fits the DS of the F40 and the end of the SAAB intermediate shafts. However, it accepts even smaller bearings within the tripod than the stock manual fiero tripods... so it will require a smaller tripod assy than the manual fiero application... Someone might be able to figure out a way to use these and some other more common axles, but not me... my primary goal is find axles that will be stronger than stock manual fiero axles (and not break the bank).
As a side note, the passenger side MUST use the intermediate shaft - the driver side tripod is too long to seal up against the tranny.
Now some better news....
1999 SAAB 9-5 axles and intermediate shaft fit the F40 just fine (and I got the whole set for $125 shipped off ebay).
Here is the Equinox and 9-5 (used) inboard joints:
Also, the outboard splines are the same as a fiero. Here is the 9-5 axle in a fiero wheel bearing:
The only obstical to using these outboard joints is the seal surface is larger than the fiero one and this will need to be addressed for proper fit (maybe use a Saab seal or turn the 9-5 seal surface down to that of the Fiero) Left: SAAB 9-3, Middle: Fiero, Right Saab 9-5
That's all I got done this evening... but all my efforts going forward will be focused on a Saab based solution, but still have not finalized the needed lengths for my application.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 04-01-2009).]
You should be able to disassemble the outboard joint for the GM axle and swap the cups around provided you use the medium duty Fiero joint that the manuals usually have. One version (auto axle I believe) is to small internally to allow the later style bearing cage found on the G6 axle and probably the Torrent axle to fit inside the outboard joint cup.
As a side note, the passenger side MUST use the intermediate shaft - the driver side tripod is too long to seal up against the tranny.
I don't see this as much of an issue, It would take me about an hour on a lathe to make a press on sleeve that will extend into the seal on the passengers side.
Does the Equinox inner tripot (the bearing part) have the Fiero type axle splines? Im thinking a stock manual Fiero long axle, into that tripot, with a sleeve to make it fit would be just perfect, seeing as how the F40 needed a slightly longer axle anyway due to the carrier being off to the drivers side a bit, and the long tripot shaft might make up for it roughly, actually, looking at the picture again, it puts the tripot housing just outside the bellhousing surface, exactly where it is on the Fiero. I know you said the bearings are smaller, but I am only concerned with the splines.
Again, for the drivers side, if the Equinox axle has the correct splines... maybe the outer can be switched out? I don't know. It would probably still be a bit long I would guess. If it has the Fiero's splines, there are so many axle bars with that spline configuration, something could be easily worked out then.
[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 04-02-2009).]
I don't see this as much of an issue, It would take me about an hour on a lathe to make a press on sleeve that will extend into the seal on the passengers side.
Does the Equinox inner tripot (the bearing part) have the Fiero type axle splines? Im thinking a stock manual Fiero long axle, into that tripot, with a sleeve to make it fit would be just perfect, seeing as how the F40 needed a slightly longer axle anyway due to the carrier being off to the drivers side a bit, and the long tripot shaft might make up for it roughly, actually, looking at the picture again, it puts the tripot housing just outside the bellhousing surface, exactly where it is on the Fiero. I know you said the bearings are smaller, but I am only concerned with the splines.
Again, for the drivers side, if the Equinox axle has the correct splines... maybe the outer can be switched out? I don't know. It would probably still be a bit long I would guess. If it has the Fiero's splines, there are so many axle bars with that spline configuration, something could be easily worked out then.
I hadn't thought about sleeving the tripod for the seal and letting it stick out... might be an option (but I would want to build a support bearing on that side of the diff (plenty of bolt holes to use) to stabilize that tripod. I tore the equinox axle down and its inboard spline was completely different (spline count, overall diameter and shape of splines) than the fiero axle and the shaft had a stepped lip immediately after the spline... which might limit resplining options.
I still need to tear down the Saab axles to see if the inner tripod (which has a larger OD than the Torrent one) is compatible with a fiero bearing set. Also, need to check the splines and overall shape of the Saab shaft for potential resplining.
For my application, I must run the intermediate shaft... I will be rotating the diff up to allow the engine to sit lower while keeping the axles at the proper elevation. In the stock location, the tripod is close to the original starter pad of the SBC and no room to rotate the diff up with the tripod there.
Personally I wouldn't bother with supporting the joint, the extra 3/4" of length isn't going to change anything. It still has as much support as it would in a getrag, about an inch resting inside the carrier, thats not bad. As long as it doesn't wobble more then it does in the getrag, it shouldn't tear up the seals, that's the only thing I would be concerned with.
But the axle spline not fitting. arg. that puts another damper on this project. If the Saab's fits, now that would be nice.
Haven't uploaded the pics yet, but last night I took the 99 Saab 9-5 inboard joint apart. It is the flat/slot design with the pivot action happening on the bearing bosses, verses the traditional fiero setup with fixed non-pivoting rollers.
Also check the smaller Torrent inboard roller assy and the rollers can not be moved to the Fiero roller assy (boss length and diameter issues).
Still need to take the outer CV's apart on the Torrent, Saab and Fiero axles for comparison... maybe this Sunday.
Hard to say without knowing the allows and heat treatments between them...
Here is a pics of the tripod inners: Torrent, Fiero, Saab 9-5
I think the Saab CV side has a welded retaining clip, so I will have to cut it off and see if it will come apart (I do not think Saab wanted these to be servicable... first the flange holding the tripod end together and now a CV clip with a spot weld at the seam).
I haven't been able to find the CV clip on the Torrent axle yet... it is hiding somewhere
As I'm using the hubs from a '97 Bonneville, I'm hoping the 33-spline-end won't be too big for that. But at least the other end fits the F40!
I believe what I said earlier was mis-understood, if the outboard joint roller bearings and the joint cups internally are the same size between the axles the number of splines on the shaft will not matter on the outboard end because the bearing separator hub will interchange across the joint cups.
For example, it was only necessary for me to remove the outboard joint cup from the Fiero medium duty (passenger side) axle and install it on the G6 axle using the G6 axle outboard hub, bearings and cage. The inboard joint is where most of the interchange troubles are.
I believe the Saab axles are much stronger due to the tubular design which makes modifying the length much easier, like customizing a rear wheel drive, drive shaft. The Torrent axle and to my understanding the later cobalt SS and saturn redline axles maybe a problem in high power applications due to the shaft taper going into the joint where some have snapped in the OE applications.
Fieroguru, I don't think you need to cut anything to get the outer CV's off.
Most of the CV's that don't have the obvious snap ring, have an internal one (not sure on the terms there) I got some pictures somewhere I will try to find tomorrow.
But once you get the CV boot off, then do either of these 2 options: 1) hold the assembly by the shaft with the CV hanging down and then use a soft faced hammer such as a dead blow and smack it down the internal spring clip will release. (Watch your toes!) 2) If you have a large vice, open the jaws wide enough to give yourself a little room and with the CV on top and the shaft pointed down in between the jaws of the vice slam downward...
Should not take a lot of force either way... Hope that helps. Scott
RWD Driveshafts is something I did for a living for a long time, and I saw way too many shafts where people had cut a few inches out of the middle, and welded them together, or used the front half from one application and the rear half from another. This is illegal, dangerous, and guaranteed to fail. It's not a real option for driveshafts, so it's not a real option for these, either. Someone is sure to argue me, about howthey've done it that way for 40 years with no issue. Professionals in every trade hear this all the time, and the fact is always the same: They've been doing it wrong for 40 years, they got lucky. Now, it looks like the Fiero version is the strongest of the 3, thanks for that pic. I'll disassemble the Bonneville CVs and see if they're stronger than the Fiero version.
I just popped open a 2.2 manual cobalt axle I had laying around. It wasn't an F35 though. It had the exact same tripot bearing set as the one you got from the torrent. Same odd 24 axle spline. The outer did fit the Fiero's hub, but it has the same 24 spline at the outer joint. grr.
when you see one of these small tripot's you will notice that they are a thick forging, with the thickest part being the center of the collar around the axle. The torsional force is just kept closer to the collar by bringing the overall diameter down and using thinner bearing wheels. This actually makes it a stronger piece then the Fiero's tripot, which with its larger diameter and thinner center, is more likley to snap the collar around the axle.
My goal is to work out a long axle setup. I do not want to use the intermediate shaft if there is any way to avoid it.
Here are the pic's of the Saab 9-5 CS that I had taken apart a while back:
CV end of the shaft, note the internal spring clip that I mentioned in my previous post
This is looking at the CV internal splines of the Saab 9-5
I thought I had written down the diameter of that end and the spline count but I can't find the info and the shaft is at a different location than I am currently.
Anyways don't know if that helps of not, I hope it does..
Fieroguru, I don't think you need to cut anything to get the outer CV's off.
Most of the CV's that don't have the obvious snap ring, have an internal one (not sure on the terms there) I got some pictures somewhere I will try to find tomorrow.
But once you get the CV boot off, then do either of these 2 options: 1) hold the assembly by the shaft with the CV hanging down and then use a soft faced hammer such as a dead blow and smack it down the internal spring clip will release. (Watch your toes!)
Scott
Thanks for that info! I just held the assy by the wheel bearing spline and slammed it down between 2 pieces of steel and the axles popped out of the Torrent and Saab axles. I am used to the fiero CV's that have a retaining clip that you must enlarge to remove.
Today was a very productive day with some very good news!
From top to bottom, Torrent, Manual Fiero, Saab 9-5... all are very close to the same length.
The axle diameters in the center - the Saab is the largest, followed by the Torrent, then the Fiero. The axle diameters at the ends, just inboard of the splines - Saab again is the largest, then Fiero, then Torrent. I will add the actual diameters later... left the sheet outside.
The Saab axle is large enough to be resplined with the fiero spine in the tapped portion:
Here are all the CV assemblies - Torrent, Manual Fiero, Saab 9-5 - the Saab one is clearly the largest, but it does look like the inners of the Torrent and the Fiero are interchangable. This would mean the Torrent axle could be disassebled and have the fiero outboard joint installed... length still might be an issue.
Now for the best news....
I took some axles, released the boot clips and slid them in so the axles would rest in the fully compressed position for comparison. Also, slid all the wheel bearing faces tight to a board and then clamped them all in place. Top: 93 Cavalier Z24 Getrag with intermediate shaft Middle: Manual Fiero Bottom: 99 Saab 9-5
The Saab 9-5 is 7/8" longer than the stock Fiero Manual axle. The seal surface on the F40 is 1" further to the driver side, so if the engine remains in the same place and axle that is 1" longer is needed.... 7/8" longer should work. Since the 9-5 axle also has a fiero compatible outboard spline... it should be a drop in once a solution for the larger Saab wheel bearing seal surface is figured out.
Since the Torrent Axle will fit within the F40 (or Saab intermediate shaft) and the Fiero outboard looks like it can be swapped to this axle, this axle setup could also be used with the Saab 9-5 intermediate shaft, but might need to move the engine 1/4" to the passenger side.
With the tranny in the stock location, the driver side axle will be about 2" shorter than the Fiero manual. The FWD Auto (baretta/Cavalier) axles are shorter than the Fiero manual, so maybe one of those might work for the short side.
