So I recieved my set of Cobalt axles in the mail today and they have 34 splines on the inner joint, with a maximum diameter of 1.06 inches. Also most notable there is no inner shaft on the right hand side, just one long axle shaft. They are supposed to be from a 2007 cobalt 5 speed manual. Is there more than one manual transmission offered in the Cobalt, or did I just get shipped the completely wrong axles? Sorry for the lack of pictures.
Just stumbled onto this from page 6.
I picked up one of these 2.2L axles from a Saturn. Good news is, pop on a torrent inner (with tripot, and a sleeve modification to the tripot shaft) put the clip on and boot it. It looks like it will be a direct fit. Bad news, the axle parts are kinda light duty, lighter then the Torrent parts. The axle itself is OK, but has a few narrow parts that could serve as a drive line "fuse". The outer is pretty light duty, the bearings are small. The outer has what appears to be the torrent spline, so that may be an upgrade. Good times.
I would much prefer to use a Fiero long axle, since I can use the good outer cups and its pretty stout. I was just wondering aimlessly in the U pull it, and stumbled on an open tripot that had the correct diameter and thickness rollers that the torrent inner has. It was the drivers side inner tripot on a late 90's-2000's Grand Prix Vin "K" 3800. It has the 34 spline tripot roller. The tripot's overall diameter is slightly to big to fit the torrent cup. I am hoping that this find will lead me to a 32 spline roller tripot with these rollers. If I can find that... Were in business.
Im thinking a late 90's early 00's Grand AM drivers side inner looks like a promising place to check. I am not expecting to find one with the correct diameter, but It would be really nice to.
[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 04-05-2009).]
I got a hold of these equinox axles. Slightly dissapointed with them. The tripot is even smaller then the little one I got out of the cobalt 2.2 Axle. they are tiny.
However, I did take the long saturn axle, and put the tripot from the Equinox on one end, and the star shaped part of the outer joint, with a Fiero outer cup and cage and have a working long axle of reasonable strength, just needs a sleeve to extend the sealing surface. I don't think its strong enough though, It isn't as strong as a Fiero manual axle because its .040 thinner in the thinnest spot, and that tiny tripot is much smaller then I expected. The lenth is 1/2" shorter, but I think that is ok. I don't know if I will bother testing the axle, but it can be made easily.
Here is a pic of the inboard tripod for the Saab 9-5. It looks like a precision casting with machines pivots for the bearings to rotate around.
Here is the stock Fiero. The bearing stud is larger in diameter than the Saab part, but it has a stress riser where the stud is machined into the casting... they even cut a snap ring groove between the stud and the casting.
Here is the inner tripod outer housings for the Torrent (left) and Saab (right):
**************************************** Found a Red 84 4speed, Waiting to get a house so I can re-home it There are Two kinds of Fiero's : Notchies and Donors!
I am going to be doing this swap soon. I have got a lot of good info from other non Fiero forums. There is a lot of good info here. Thanks for some good reading. I was told to use Cobalt SS axles I did not notice if these were tested here maybe I missed it? The axles are my only ? marks. I am running a 3.4 turbo so I can use the stock Camaro 3.4 flywheel and the grand am adapter for the clutch slave plug and I have part number for the Spec clutch to use. I was also thinking of having American CV make the axles for me if the cobalt SS ones do not work. I was thinking of having them make an axle set and use the long axle like the V6 fiero five speed does to make it more simple. I was hoping the Cobalt SS ones will work because there are some good HP aftermarket ones out there.
I am going to be doing this swap soon. I have got a lot of good info from other non Fiero forums. There is a lot of good info here. Thanks for some good reading. I was told to use Cobalt SS axles I did not notice if these were tested here maybe I missed it? The axles are my only ? marks. I am running a 3.4 turbo so I can use the stock Camaro 3.4 flywheel and the grand am adapter for the clutch slave plug and I have part number for the Spec clutch to use. I was also thinking of having American CV make the axles for me if the cobalt SS ones do not work. I was thinking of having them make an axle set and use the long axle like the V6 fiero five speed does to make it more simple. I was hoping the Cobalt SS ones will work because there are some good HP aftermarket ones out there.
The Cobalt SS and Saturn Redline axles work because they are from the 5 speed version of the Saab transaxle which has the same spline configuration as the F40. The base models of those cars get the weaker muncie 5 spd.
So the SS axles will bolt in and no axles need to be made.
According to FieroAddiction the bearing seal surface on the cobalt outer CV is not directly compatible with the Fiero upright seal. Length and splines are correct, but the fiero upright seal will not fit the Cobalt axle.
I have ran into the same issue with the SAAB 9-3 and 9-3 axles having a larger seal diameter than the fiero ones and I am looking for alternative seals or might just make a 1/4" seal spacer to keep the larger Saab seal area outside of the fiero seal area.
For those who are contemplating a 3.6VVT/F40 swap into a Fiero, Pontiac apparently wanted iit for the G6, but the bean counters at GM probably axed the idea.
the stock 5 speed tranny that comes with the 2.2 ecotec is the F23 getrag .weaker than the F40 but a lot stronger than a fiero getrag .the only thing on the cobalt axles that does not fit is the outer dust seal and you can do without that .the info is in " LSJ supercharged ecotec swap ".look in the construction zone .
So the good news is the seal is bigger so that area could be turned down to fit the Fiero seal. Other than that it is a plug and go?
...from what I can gather, yes. This will probably be the route I'll take, because as you said; there are aftermarket high HP axles available for the Slobalt SS's and Saturn Redlines that could easily be used. My only issue is the flywheel. Any N*/Aurora guys know if the stock G6 flywheel can be plugged/re-drilled to work, or is there a better option? Don't particularly feel like spending $500+ on a custom flywheel, but if I have to, I have to.
...from what I can gather, yes. This will probably be the route I'll take, because as you said; there are aftermarket high HP axles available for the Slobalt SS's and Saturn Redlines that could easily be used. My only issue is the flywheel. Any N*/Aurora guys know if the stock G6 flywheel can be plugged/re-drilled to work, or is there a better option? Don't particularly feel like spending $500+ on a custom flywheel. If that turns out to be the case, I'll spend a couple extra bucks and have a button flywheel punched out for a Tilton twin-disc setup.
Here is the shift assembly with its three cables, I didn't put much effort into checking the third cable out but it does something when the shifter is moved to reverse. It is also evident from a thread placed on the Z24 forum from the G6 forum that GM was having problems with the F40 transmission rebelling during certain shifts as evidenced by the number of G6 owners chiming in throughout the thread with the same complaint along with individuals doing vehicle test drive reviews and apparently some Saab F40 owners as well. Some of the vehicles were replaced under warranty and lemon laws due to the problem and the owners persistance.
There was also an implication that GM seemed to be in denial about the complaint from what I read. Whatever the case there is a possibility that the abundance of these new trannies in the "free" world has more to do with the unforseen mechanical problem than the initial gear ratios they were well aware of in advance.
Has anyone here had any problems with this issue that was talked about in the G6 forum?
Is there a fix for this issue? Or, is it something that one of us who have purchased a brand new F-40 should be worried about?
I bought a brand new F-40 six speed off of ebay, and hopefully soon I will be able to get it in my Fiero. With as many transmission issues as I have had in the past couple years I surely dont want to put ANOTHER transmission in that is junk!
...from what I can gather, yes. This will probably be the route I'll take, because as you said; there are aftermarket high HP axles available for the Slobalt SS's and Saturn Redlines that could easily be used. My only issue is the flywheel. Any N*/Aurora guys know if the stock G6 flywheel can be plugged/re-drilled to work, or is there a better option? Don't particularly feel like spending $500+ on a custom flywheel, but if I have to, I have to.
The Camaro Firebird flywheels for the 3.4 and 3800 are the correct thickness. I am using the stock 3.4 flywheel for my engine that is a 3.4 out of a 95 firebird you might be able to use the 3800 one?????
Yep, correct thickness, however they are larger in diameter, they do not fit inside the bellhousing of the G6 6 speed without removing the larger RWD ring gear, and the smaller FWD ring gear doesn't fit.
Any decent machine shopcan machine the flywheel to accept the FWD ring gear, but depending on the design of the flywheel, they may have to position the ring gear either further forward or rearward, and this could create new problems.
I'm looking into changing the bolt pattern to the larger 5x115 and was wondering if you have come across some axles about the same length as the Cobalt SS but with the larger outer hub but would fit the F35 tranny? Don't care if the hub bearing fits the fiero knuckle.
Thanks,
Chuck
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
Here is the shift assembly with its three cables, I didn't put much effort into checking the third cable out but it does something when the shifter is moved to reverse. It is also evident from a thread placed on the Z24 forum from the G6 forum that GM was having problems with the F40 transmission rebelling during certain shifts as evidenced by the number of G6 owners chiming in throughout the thread with the same complaint along with individuals doing vehicle test drive reviews and apparently some Saab F40 owners as well. Some of the vehicles were replaced under warranty and lemon laws due to the problem and the owners persistance.
There was also an implication that GM seemed to be in denial about the complaint from what I read. Whatever the case there is a possibility that the abundance of these new trannies in the "free" world has more to do with the unforseen mechanical problem than the initial gear ratios they were well aware of in advance.
Has anyone here had any problems with this issue that was talked about in the G6 forum?
Is there a fix for this issue? Or, is it something that one of us who have purchased a brand new F-40 should be worried about?
I bought a brand new F-40 six speed off of ebay, and hopefully soon I will be able to get it in my Fiero. With as many transmission issues as I have had in the past couple years I surely dont want to put ANOTHER transmission in that is junk!
Just wondering if anyone seen this, and had anything to say about my concern?
[This message has been edited by chrishahn87 (edited 06-16-2009).]
Here is the shift assembly with its three cables, I didn't put much effort into checking the third cable out but it does something when the shifter is moved to reverse. It is also evident from a thread placed on the Z24 forum from the G6 forum that GM was having problems with the F40 transmission rebelling during certain shifts as evidenced by the number of G6 owners chiming in throughout the thread with the same complaint along with individuals doing vehicle test drive reviews and apparently some Saab F40 owners as well. Some of the vehicles were replaced under warranty and lemon laws due to the problem and the owners persistance.
There was also an implication that GM seemed to be in denial about the complaint from what I read. Whatever the case there is a possibility that the abundance of these new trannies in the "free" world has more to do with the unforseen mechanical problem than the initial gear ratios they were well aware of in advance.
Just wondering if anyone seen this, and had anything to say about my concern?
The G6 problem shouldn't be a concern. Be on the look out for F40 problems in the Fiero of which there have not been any serious complaints I'm aware of except for an occasional rattling noise. The OE G6 shifter and cables will not work in the Fiero and it was thought that they may have contributed to some issues in the G6 as well.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-16-2009).]
Originally posted by chrishahn87: Has anyone here had any problems with this issue that was talked about in the G6 forum? Is there a fix for this issue? Or, is it something that one of us who have purchased a brand new F-40 should be worried about? I bought a brand new F-40 six speed off of ebay, and hopefully soon I will be able to get it in my Fiero. With as many transmission issues as I have had in the past couple years I surely dont want to put ANOTHER transmission in that is junk!
I have put a couple thousand hard miles on my F40 and haven't noticed any problems other than a rattle in neutral with the clutch released, which can be remedied by slightly pulling back on the shifter and slowly releasing it. I read all of the GM service bulletins I could find about the F40 (the second to third hard shift one concerned me the most) but NONE of the problems came up with my "E-Bay Transmission". Most all problems G-6 owners were having were superficials ones about hard shifts or noises that were most likely caused by loose tolerances on the first few batches. Fortunately, most all of the surplus 6-speeds available now were units made well into the final batches where assemblers were holding the trannies to the proper tolerances. If you do end up with a "loose" F40 that makes excess noise or shifts hard, replace one quart of the BOT 0063 trans fluid with a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer. It will help with those problems without changing the properties of the proprietary and GM recommended fluid.
On a side note, since I have a spare F40 and I am trying to find the breaking point of the first F40 (if it will), I will be replacing the above fluid with some Red Line ShockProof Gear Oil. I am too curious to know if an aftermarket synthetic gear oil will work with the sensitive double and triple cone synchronizers of the F-40. If it does, we have a new fluid option for higher torque engines.
------------------ 87 GT Tilt Clip-Widebody-RamAir-Fastback-GlassHatch Powered by SBC 383 6-speed w/ NOS Build Thread "Roads?...Where we're going, we don't need roads." - Emmett "Doc" Brown
Yep, correct thickness, however they are larger in diameter, they do not fit inside the bellhousing of the G6 6 speed without removing the larger RWD ring gear, and the smaller FWD ring gear doesn't fit.
What's the interference problem? Those flywheels (RWD 3.4 and 3800) already have the FWD (142 tooth) ring gear stock. They are used in 3800 swaps with 282's but machined thinner. The ring gear shouldn't be a problem.
What's the interference problem? Those flywheels (RWD 3.4 and 3800) already have the FWD (142 tooth) ring gear stock. They are used in 3800 swaps with 282's but machined thinner. The ring gear shouldn't be a problem.
I think he was thinking because camaros are rear wheel drive they would be the same size as the V8 flywheel but now he knows the 3.4 and 3800 Flywheel is the same as a front wheel drive flywheel So no High dollar things made to bolt to your Flywheel is needed that is a waste of money.
Any more luck on finding out if the (seemingly) more heavy duty 2009 F40 from the AWD Saabs will work? I'd really like to get something that can take alot of power and still be a manual.
I'm planning on using the Archie kit for getting most of the parts I need for this, I'm just going to supply the transmission and see what can be done about flywheel and clutch options (as we've discussed in PM).
Heres the ingredients, and the semi finished product. To the right: an equinox cup, center: Fiero cup, Left: combination of the two.
And, the two units before welding begins. The one on the right has a sleeve over the equinox axle to make it fit the jackshaft (passenger) side of the transmission without leaking. The sleeve is actually the equivalent part from the fiero's cup, cut off, bored to smaller then the equinox shaft, then torched till hot, and it slipped right on, and shrunk in place.
At first, this project was a bit discouraging. The equinox cup metal was soft enough to lop the bulk of the cup off with a sawzall. Ok, fine... but then I tried to cut the shaft off of the Fiero's cup. Forget it, it wouldn't even scratch the surface. The metal the fiero cups are made of is hardened. I almost gave up on this idea right there.
I wound up torching the area near the shaft to nearly 1000F, then letting it cool. Then, it was soft enough to work on the lathe. I chucked it up in the lathe and spent several hours cutting away, then making the internal diameter the just smaller then the outer diameter of the equinox cup. I had to sharpen my carbide cutter 4 times. The metal is tough. I surfaced the remains of the equinox cup and pressed the two together.
One thing that stood out, was that the Fiero cups are not straight, not even by a long shot. These new cups I have made are at least straight. The whole purpose of this project, was to utilize stock, off the shelf axles, as well as have it be strong enough to break those oem axles. This is why I opted to weld the cups at the most major diameter I could. Hopefully, it will all work out. I may have the metal treated after I finish the welding to recover some of its strength. The fiero's cups are made from some hard forged steel.
Forgot to add. The passenger side shaft is an OEM Fiero shaft. For the drivers side, it looks like a Quad 4 Grand AM 4T60 drivers side axle should be the closest fit, I grabbed a passenger side axle from a grand am, but its a 1/2" longer then ideal, Not to say it won't work. We'll see.
[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 07-13-2009).]
What's the interference problem? Those flywheels (RWD 3.4 and 3800) already have the FWD (142 tooth) ring gear stock. They are used in 3800 swaps with 282's but machined thinner. The ring gear shouldn't be a problem.
Apparently, The flywheel I was checking out may have been off an S10. It definatly had a larger ring gear, and it didn't appear to have any possibility of being re-machined. The 3800 flywheel, we all know its thick and the correct diameter, people have been running them in Fiero's forever. I'm now curious about the 3.1/3.4 Fbod wheel...
Heres the ingredients, and the semi finished product. To the right: an equinox cup, center: Fiero cup, Left: combination of the two.
And, the two units before welding begins. The one on the right has a sleeve over the equinox axle to make it fit the jackshaft (passenger) side of the transmission without leaking. The sleeve is actually the equivalent part from the fiero's cup, cut off, bored to smaller then the equinox shaft, then torched till hot, and it slipped right on, and shrunk in place.
That is very cool! For the Drivers side Axle, I suggest the 96 Corsica 4 speed auto driver side axle. It has fiero compatible splines on both ends, but is 1 1/4" shorter.:
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-14-2009).]
how were the Fiero cups not straight? I don't yet get your meaning. I'm an engine builder by trade, not a CV axles guy. Doesn't the fact or design of the CV make straightness a non-issue? Any chance the Fiero cup you had was damaged or otherwise atypical?
The OD of the tripot should be rough machined. However, the internal slides of the tripot are what need to be straight, not the OD. If you found one in which the OD work was not concentric or parallel to the shaft, then if may be bent OR the OD and internal machine work on the tripot may not be parallel and concentric... Just be careful with what you assumed is supposed to be a certain way. You're going to a lot of trouble and a faulty assumption at the beginning could waste a lot of effort.
That is very cool! For the Drivers side Axle, I suggest the 96 Corsica 4 speed auto driver side axle. It has fiero compatible splines on both ends, but is 1 1/4" shorter.: http://i152.photobucket.com...ru/96CorsicaAxle.jpg
Sorry, I've just been out of the loop lately, lots of home work and little time. I'm going to try and post what I did to my shifter soon so that you know what modifications to make.
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:
Joseph,
Any more luck on finding out if the (seemingly) more heavy duty 2009 F40 from the AWD Saabs will work? I'd really like to get something that can take alot of power and still be a manual.
I'm planning on using the Archie kit for getting most of the parts I need for this, I'm just going to supply the transmission and see what can be done about flywheel and clutch options (as we've discussed in PM).
Thanks!
I believe the only difference in the two transmissions is just taller gearing to shift more of the torque load to the axles, otherwise it's pretty much the same casing I believe with the auxillary gearbox mounted to the threaded bosses on the right side.
The OD of the tripot should be rough machined. However, the internal slides of the tripot are what need to be straight, not the OD. If you found one in which the OD work was not concentric or parallel to the shaft, then if may be bent OR the OD and internal machine work on the tripot may not be parallel and concentric... Just be careful with what you assumed is supposed to be a certain way. You're going to a lot of trouble and a faulty assumption at the beginning could waste a lot of effort.
I stuck to internal chucking on the 3 jaw for this exact reason. I still think the Fiero's cups were just not perfect.
I got my Dual Voltage Input Miller MIG turned up to 4, first tacked, checked for straightness and burned hot and slow. I had machined a chamfer in the cup for some real hot welding. This is the first time I have ever used the 240V plug on my welder. I was blown away by how wicked hot this thing could weld.
I think I will clean up the welds a little with the flap disk, then I am debaiting on weather or not to have some sort of temperature treatment done to the cups to regain some of the hardness It had before I torched and subsequently welded. These parts aren't under the kind of stresses seen in the rest of the axle system. I may just leave them as they are now, but clean them up a little. It's looking pretty complete to me.
