Poly dust boots, like those shown here, are garbage on all joints and rod ends.
They may look pretty but they offer no protection. OEM type boots are the way to do that job. You need the sealing that they provide at both ends.
Replacements for torn ones are not hard to find. You can get them thru MotorMite's HELP! line in several common sizes. They should be at many parts stores or they should be able to get them for you.
To seat the large end, try very big sockets or some plastic pipe. (and/or pipe fittings...) Any tubing type thing w/o sharp edges will make short work of them.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Concerning the front Sway Bar, and the bolts on the sway bar ends.... Is there enough "wiggle room" to get the old bolt and bushings out without having to do more unbolting of the sway bar from the frame??
I have no clue on how I missed this thread! Even though I have 88's, it is good to be able to see how it all comes together. Thanks for taking the time. +4U
------------------ White 88 GT 5 spd (Soon to be a Shelby S1 powered 6 spd) Red 88 GT Auto (Soon to be Shelby S1 powered)
Concerning the front Sway Bar, and the bolts on the sway bar ends.... Is there enough "wiggle room" to get the old bolt and bushings out without having to do more unbolting of the sway bar from the frame??
Thanks John
Good question. I will try that first when I go to do the front end. I'm going to see if I can do it better/faster than I did last time...
-Brian
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Originally posted by telefragg3d:
cool! nice write up! + for you. however....
did you take the spring off at all? isn't that crazy dangerous?
Rear springs stay on the strut. Front springs you have to pop them out. It made me a little twitchy but they just popped out, no shooting across the room or anything like that.
[This message has been edited by MulletproofMonk (edited 05-23-2013).]
One good thing to do is to link a chain around the spring and the control arm. In case that jack slips, it keeps the spring from shooting out of there.
Concerning the front Sway Bar, and the bolts on the sway bar ends.... Is there enough "wiggle room" to get the old bolt and bushings out without having to do more unbolting of the sway bar from the frame??
Thanks John
John, Just got around to working on the front end last night... I have been occupied with a 7730 ECM, Digital EGR and Digital Cruise Control upgrade... I tried taking off just the swaybar and the answer to the question is yes. You can do the front swaybar using two 13mm wrenches but it was VERY time consuming. IF I were going to do it this way again I would use a cutoff tool to cut the extra threads off the bolt. That way you only have to do 2-3 turns to get the nut off. Your arm shouldn't get too tired putting the new nut on since it doesn't have 20 years of rust built up on the bolt threads... Doing it with the two 13mm wrenched took almost the same amount of time it took to get the upper control arm off and use a socket on the swaybar bushing...
"WOW" man that is a really nice build thread on the bushings... thanks so much. I too like a lot of pics. and benifit from the whloe look and learn. i plan on buyong that same bushing set up from ebay. and did you get your cradle bushings from there also? i just pulled my engine this weekend to do a swap to an L67 and i figured this would be the best time to get it out of the way. Since i already have it in my mind that i won't be done my car until late summer 2010. again thanks so much. oh and a + for ya!
"WOW" man that is a really nice build thread on the bushings... thanks so much. I too like a lot of pics. and benifit from the whloe look and learn. i plan on buyong that same bushing set up from ebay. and did you get your cradle bushings from there also? i just pulled my engine this weekend to do a swap to an L67 and i figured this would be the best time to get it out of the way. Since i already have it in my mind that i won't be done my car until late summer 2010. again thanks so much. oh and a + for ya!
, Jason
I didn't do the cradle bushings on that car. I do have a set of poly cradle bushings that I want to do on my current car in the last pics. I also bought a set of aluminum cradle bushings from here on the forum. I may put them in the car.
At some point I need to post pictures of the bushing removal tool that I made to do my current car. It reduced waiting for the bushings to burn out and it only cost about $25 to make 2 (one for the large bushings and one for the small bushings). Anything that helps reduce inhaling that toxic black smoke is good...
This comes just in time! My own kit came in yesterday but its gonna be some rough workin..
A question. Do you have a stock front sway bar or aftermarket rear/front? I have an Addco front and rear sway bars, and I do not think they measure the same. I believe the stock front sway bar is 23mm and that mine is the standard 22mm or 7/8ths. Therefore I don't think my swaybar mount bushings will fit Any ideas?
This comes just in time! My own kit came in yesterday but its gonna be some rough workin..
A question. Do you have a stock front sway bar or aftermarket rear/front? I have an Addco front and rear sway bars, and I do not think they measure the same. I believe the stock front sway bar is 23mm and that mine is the standard 22mm or 7/8ths. Therefore I don't think my swaybar mount bushings will fit Any ideas?
measure your sway bar, they make generic sway bar bushing mounting kits that have slots, you should be able to find them listed by size. If I find the listing, I will add it.
A lot of people are going to end up using your thread as a guide, so it's important that they are aware of the problem.
See Ogre's post above mine for a more detailed explanation of why the polyurethane dust boots should not be used.
You actually *can* use the poly ball joint dust boots......if you're just going for the "look". When I did all my bushings I kept the OEM rubber dust boots in place, as the poly ones obviously wouldn't seal properly. I simply cut the hole in the small end of the poly dust boots larger and fit them *over* the rubber boots.....works like a charm, and helps protect the rubber boot.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 06-11-2009).]
Originally posted by randye: ...I simply cut the hole in the small end of the poly dust boots larger and fit them *over* the rubber boots.....works like a charm, and helps protect the rubber boot.
I wondered about that after reading theogre's comments. Thanks for letting us know.
I wondered about that after reading theogre's comments. Thanks for letting us know.
Well the only way that I have found to get those boots is buying new ball joints. The "HELP" ones that he mentions look like the poly boots except that they are a little larger and rubber.
sorry if i missed it but are these the polys off of ebay????
Sorry, I was on vacation. Yes, I bought the kit off eBay for around $99.00 shipped to my door. It included all the front suspension poly and the rear suspension poly. It did not include the cradle or engine poly.
Ok, if you have the upgrade finished, tell us what has changed as far as ride and handling. Yeah, we can all see that black has changed to red from the pics. That's OK if all you are going to do is "show" the car. Some people even place mirrors on the grass to try to get people OOH and AHH over the red.
But here in the real world of driven cars, we want to know.
Ok, if you have the upgrade finished, tell us what has changed as far as ride and handling. Yeah, we can all see that black has changed to red from the pics. That's OK if all you are going to do is "show" the car. Some people even place mirrors on the grass to try to get people OOH and AHH over the red.
But here in the real world of driven cars, we want to know.
To get that answer to that question, you should post a new thread (there may be one out there). I did this as an instructional thread on how to do the install for people like me that were going to do it. I am not a poly-pusher I just got the full setup cheap off eBay. I believe that there are too many factors and opinions on this upgrade.
I bought this car, and have recently started driving it daily and it handles good IMO. I havent driven any fiero like i have this one and it goes right around bends with ease. There is also a lesson here: when all this stuff is apart change the ball joints, no matter what. I put lowering springs on this car afterwards and the ball joints seemed to have no play, but at the alignment shop they were loose (and they were for real). I had to take all the front apart again to install Rodneys ball joints. This car is bumpy so if roads around you arent good, i wouldnt recommend all the poly, Kybs, and lowering springs. I have good roads with nice banked curves here so I dont have a problem at all.
I also disposed of the poly boots. They are **** , dont use them.
For those who are replacing the control arm bushing, there is a much easier way to remove them, other than BURNING them out. you still need torches of some sort, if you flip the control arm over you can see the metal sleeve that the rubber bushing is installed in, all you need to do is heat that steel sleeve, somewhat evenly but doesnt have to be perfect, you will hear hissing and see steam come out from one side of the bushing, it will shoot out pretty good so dont have anyone stand near the side it comes out. It takes only about a minute of heating to get it out, no need to hit it or burn the centers out or drill anything. I have done it many many times and it works great. It will actually leave the sleeve in the control arm fairly clean, take a little sandpaper and clean it up, but i havent had to. This method cuts down significantly on the smoke and stink. Works on all control arm bushings and engine cradle front bushings.
I made a little bushing puller with some galvanized pipe, end cap and bolt. You just heat the control arm, when you hear the hissing start tightening the nut on the bolt. The bushing will sort of pop out into the pipe. If there is any residue in the control arm or cradle I just use a wire wheel to clean it out. I said I was going to post a picture of my tool I made but haven't gotten around to it. Some of the negative posters here took away my desire to spend the time putting everything in the pictures... I see that over 3,500 people have read this thread so far. Hopefully it has helped someone.
Word of caution when removing sway bar bolts. I used impact wrench on mine and twisted off two of the four in the process. It's a pain in the ** to drill out and retap when you do this!
Suggest using lots of penetrating oil to soak in advance and hand sockets when doing this to avoid what I had happen. Slower but faster!
I used an impact to do all of mine on two cars with no issues. When there is rust it makes them hotter then hell, but they have come out... That being said, you always take a risk when using any air tools... Sometimes it's good to use the wrench to break it loose and the impact to remove it the rest of the way.
02greens10 bought the car from the pictures. His response is:
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Originally posted by 02greens10:
I bought this car, and have recently started driving it daily and it handles good IMO. I havent driven any fiero like i have this one and it goes right around bends with ease. There is also a lesson here: when all this stuff is apart change the ball joints, no matter what. I put lowering springs on this car afterwards and the ball joints seemed to have no play, but at the alignment shop they were loose (and they were for real). I had to take all the front apart again to install Rodneys ball joints. This car is bumpy so if roads around you arent good, i wouldnt recommend all the poly, Kybs, and lowering springs. I have good roads with nice banked curves here so I dont have a problem at all.
I also disposed of the poly boots. They are **** , dont use them.
Thank you for the great photo record. I have an 87 GT and installed a rear sway bar with no other upgrades and found the car handles worse. I am taking the bar off for now until I have the time to do what you did.
I have trolled this thread a few times and am referencing it again for my poly upgrade coming in the mail. Thanks for the detailed by the numbers and also to those who allowed us the information on the dust covers and also using the poly to cover the rubber! Saving me some time and money in the long run.
You actually *can* use the poly ball joint dust boots......if you're just going for the "look". When I did all my bushings I kept the OEM rubber dust boots in place, as the poly ones obviously wouldn't seal properly. I simply cut the hole in the small end of the poly dust boots larger and fit them *over* the rubber boots.....works like a charm, and helps protect the rubber boot.
Now thats more like it... Looks like he was doing the poly upgrade on a donor car with all those cob webs and rust. JMO
a great writeup and photos. kudos to all that gave optional tips and input as well. I havent done this yet to my 3 fieros but it is in the works for this spring.
PM Me if you need: Interior/Exterior Parts Stock Switches/Bezels Gauge Clusters Body Panels Fiero Rotor Hubs for Brake Swaps Or custom fabricated parts! My prices are very low.
Originally posted by jmex: Now thats more like it... Looks like he was doing the poly upgrade on a donor car with all those cob webs and rust. JMO
I appreciate all the people that have left positive comments and hope this has helped you.
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Originally posted by MadDanceSkillz: I'll be starting my poly upgrade on my 86/87 GT conversion in the next 5 minutes using Brian's great guide. Wish me luck!
Good luck David. Let us know if you do it by the numbers and it works or if you find a shortcut.
Any ideas?
here so I dont have a problem at all.
