EDIT: This is the car that was "sold" to me https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-4-032634.html Car was described as a "nearly mint 9.5 out of 10" vehicle - so I bought this car without seeing it first. Big mistake!
I started dismantling the car a couple of weeks later on the Labour Day Weekend right after I received it. These are the pics I took at that time back in 2006.
While looking over the body, aside from the usual stone chips on the body and mirrors, the most noticeable problem was that the front bodywork didn't "sit" properly.
A closer look showed up these damaged areas. It looked like the hood and fender got pushed back into the pillar, most noticeably on the driver's side.
The leading edge of the hood by the driver's side headlight had an area of chipped paint (hard to see in this photo) that had been poorly repainted as they didn't even fill and sand the chips first.
You can see that the hood was cracked in the hinge support area. The cracked support was left unrepaired and flexed with opening and closing of the hood, but the hood was repainted as seen by overspray on the headlight door.
Further dismantling showed that this car had been in an accident (a surprise to me because this was NEVER mentioned by Chester!) Here's the hammered out damage in the driver's headlight area.
There's no apparent repair to the steel bumper and honeycomb energy absorber wasn't broken up, so these must have been replaced. But again, the damage that "didn't show" was left as is. You can see the top corner of the fender attaching point broken off.
Also, there was no observable damage or repair that you would have expected to see on a repaired front fascia, so I expect this was replaced. But there was this minor damage at the upper edge, so perhaps it was a used fascia that had been installed.
At the back of the car, there were some problem areas as well - a chip in the decklid's corner.
Some scapes on the mirrors.
Virtually every 84 I've seen has a damaged cover over the battery. Usually the "hook" or the little support tab is broken off.
Another serious problem was that the decklid "skin" was separating from the decklid structure. Lots of bodywork ahead - and needs new paint! (not something expected on a "mint" car!)
Its that 84s are the best. There is nothing more relaxing than working on a white 84 Fiero.
Thanks. Weren't half the 84's that were sold White anyway? Red and White were the only 2 colors at the start of production, weren't they?
The car's clearcoat also appeared to be etched with tree sap or something. I only managed to get the windshield clean with heavy duty rubbing compound and a body buffer. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...090219-1-067246.html
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
More pictures of this thing when I got it. The interior was relatively decent. It suffered from the usual warping of shifter surround and center console, the most severe being the radio surround. Not mentioned or photographed by the seller.
The dome light panel had a scape in it (why with 19,000 miles??), but I luckily found a "like new" one in a high mileage wreck in the junkyard.
The 84's had black switches, and on almost every 84 I've seen, for some reason the switches deteriorate into a burnt out grey with time. Here's my power window switches.
Luckily, the 80's Camaros and Firebirds used similar switches. While you can't use the switches themselves, the caps can be popped off and swapped onto the Fiero switches.
The car had Mr Mike's excellent leather seat skins. About the only thing wrong was that the recliner covers were the dark grey instead of the matching light grey, and the seat rails were kinda rusted. They couldn't bother to paint these??
The most serious interior problem was the deterioration of the headliner foam. Smoothing the fabric left handprints as the foam collapsed. It was so bad, that the fabric basically fell off when I removed it for recovering and the old crap underneath was easily rubbed off with a brush.
The same thing happened with the foam in the sunvisors and they "flattened out". I bought a new headliner kit and visors from the Fiero Store.
I had removed the interior completely for cleanup and soundproofing and for installation of a new stereo system. I wanted to keep everything looking relatively "factory" so I got a Pontiac CD Radio for the car.
To inspect the mechanicals, the first thing I did was put it up on jackstands and pull the aftermarket 14" Enkei wheels. I had expected the brakes and suspension to need work and it did. But steel components were rusted and aluminum was oxidized much more severly than I expected for a car that had been supposedly garaged all its life. Clearly it hadn't been for some time.
The steering had some play on the passenger side, pointing to a worn bushing inside the steering rack and perhaps an inner tie-rod (why with only 19,000 miles??). Shocks and strut seals had leaked. At the rear, the wheelwell liners were missing (took lots of time to find good replacements) and splash shields ripped.
In the engine bay, the battery tray area had some minor rust.
The bottom floorpan of the car was in very good condition, but the "custom pipe" and header the Seller bragged about certainly didn't look to be in too good a shape. All the rusted brake cables would need replacing too.
The "non-working" starter and the "reason" the car could not be started, worked fine (now on a friend's 2M4). We were able crank the engine to run a compression test with it. The results weren't very good. It produced only 92psi dry and 130psi "wet". More about the engine here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-2-076520.html
Anyway, we would have to pull the engine to see what was wrong. Here's what we found when we removed the header. That pile on the ground was the metal that had turned to rust and flaked off INSIDE the header.
Luckily, the header still seems salvageble. I was worried it would be so rusted out that it would need to be thrown away.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
Time to post more pictures. This was an unfinished engine installation and there was lots of goofy jury-rigging going on. Here's some examples.
The engine cradle had 1-inch aluminum spacers between the rear bushings and frame, apparently, to get the engine to sit lower in the engine bay. But it also raised the body relative to the wheels for even more wheel gap.
This engine had an SD4 valve cover. Even with the engine lowered, it still interfered with the decklid hinge. The person who installed it solved the problem by denting the valve cover.
At the end where the thermostat housing is supposed to be, there was a plug in the head with a sensor.
At the "front" of the engine was a coolant outlet. There was no thermostat here, only a restrictor plate (essentially a washer) to control coolant flow. This guy also didn't believe in using gaskets. This ugly brown sh1t was everywhere!
So the hoses ran across the engine bay to connect the out-flowing coolant to the coolant pipe on the opposite side of the car. Because of this, he threw away the firewall's upper heat shield that was in the way. The heat shield protects the firewall wiring and A/C hoses from the exhaust heat. What a fire hazard!
An example of several "hose adapters" using plastic parts from Home Depot. Not sure why they didn't buy the correct diameter hoses to start with.
With the header off, it was obvious that the exhaust had been leaking past the header gasket.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-23-2018).]
Time to post more pictures. This was an unfinished engine installation and there was lots of goofy jury-rigging going on. Here's some examples. ............................ At the "front" of the engine was a coolant outlet. There was no thermostat here, only a restrictor plate (essentially a washer) to control coolant flow. This guy also didn't believe in using gaskets. This ugly brown sh1t was everywhere! ................ So the hoses ran across the engine bay to connect the out-flowing coolant to the coolant pipe on the opposite side of the car. Because of this, he threw away the firewall's upper heat shield that was in the way.
The orifice but no thermostat in the coolant outlet is not a hack, its actually the recommended procedure from the Pontiac "Performance Plus" Super Duty engine build manuals circa 1984-1985.
Ditch the corrugated hose. Those hoses do not work well in performance applications.
Is your car a Superduty automatic? Can you put up some more stuff about your engine and engine management/fueling?
Is that a SD head on a production block? Do you know what the harmonic balancer is off of? Does it have a part number on it? No V-belt Dukes came from the factory with a V-belt pulley that actually has a damper in it.
The orifice but no thermostat in the coolant outlet is not a hack, its actually the recommended procedure from the Pontiac "Performance Plus" Super Duty engine build manuals circa 1984-1985.
I know that - got the same book. I was just showing what a crappy install the outlet and the hoses were. It could have been installed at the opposite end of the head and simplified connecting the coolant hose.
Please keep in mind, this IS NOT my build. Just showing you how the car was when I bought it. I never had the engine running, neither did the previous owner.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-29-2008).]
Here's the reason they they had to get the engine sitting lower in the engine bay. These Webers should get a few people excited.
The placment of the Weber carbs is very tight without even room for proper air cleaners.
Lowering the engine was the only way to get Carb #1 to clear the dogbone mount on the firewall, otherwise the horn on the first barrel would need to be removed.
In addition, there was no way to fit the stock dogbone, so this beautifully engineered substitute was used.
Pulling the top of the valve cover revealed a some minor gunk, surface rust on the valve springs and a set of 1.7 ratio Crane Gold Roller Rockers. Some of the rockers had seen better days.
The engine had Crane solid roller lifters and a Crane solid roller lifter camshaft PN 298011. I guess this supposedly worked, but camshaft PN 298011 is designed for 1.55 ratio rockers, NOT 1.7 ratio rockers. Guess he wanted even more lift.
The lifters were connected by bars to keep them from rotating in the bores.
This is very different from the factory setup and its "basket" retainers pictured here.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-24-2009).]
Some overall pictures of engine described by Seller as "spotless" once the cradle was out. I'd never seen rusted rubber belts before.
The engine on the stand with long tube header attached. Note route of primary from #4 in relation to area where starter mounts. While it clears the factory starter and solenoid, it interferes with an aftermarket high torque starter's solenoid.
This is the sludge we saw when we pulled the oil pan, but under the valve cover was described as clean as a whistle - not.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
1) Looks like you've got some solid hardware to work with- If you change your mind, i'll take it!
2) I got to thinking about your low 130psi compression readings- The overlap of a big cam will lower cranking numbers and if there are stock type pistons in there with the head milled to leave over 60cc chamber volume, you're not doing too bad, though the oiled vs non-oiled numbers are pretty concerning even for an engine that's sat a while.
3) Those cradle spacer pucks wouldn't really increase the rear ride height of the car, as that's set by through the knuckle by the spring height to the strut upper/body.
Some pics of engine disassembly before sending everything out to the rebuilders.
The harmonic balancer has integral pulley grooves. Some metal had transferred (welded itself) from the balancer to the crank.
While the extra metal can be machined off the crank, the harmonic balancer is ruined and a new one would be needed. (Lucky it wasn't the crank!) There is a suitable replacement if an SD4 balancer cannot be found. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...HTML/146575.html#p35
This SD4 crank has a 3.9375" stroke and 4.000" bore. That makes it approximately 3.3L
Here's the block with head removed. The bores and pistons looked OK, but had produced only 92 psi on the compression test. New pistons would be purchased to reduce the compression ratio from 12.8 to about 10.5 or less to run on premium gas.
And the aluminum head as it came off the block.
We kept the block, crank, connectioning rods, and bare head for the rebuild. Except for the Crane rockers, everything else would be brand new.
Just some final pictures I had missed posting earlier.
Here's the trailered car on it's way through Montana.
A peek at the dash cluster.
After unloading and pushing it into the garage, the first order of business was to get it in the air and get the wheels off. This is how the exhaust was hanging when it arrived on the trailer. It's obvious now why the Seller didn't post a picture of the back.
Here I had started disassembling the front trunk/radiator area.
Just some of the missing and other parts I started gathering from the wreckers for the rebuild.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-29-2010).]
Wow, I never noticed from any of the earlier picture sets that your car was Indy-style!
3.9375" stroke, damn, the hydroplane guy was telling me that all the motors he built with that stroke shook at idle, being that big with no balance shafts.
I like your cluster. Is that the old FOCOA one?
I see you grabbed the alt mount/dogbone bracket- how are you going to fit those big carbs with that in place?
Are you putting on an exhaust-side heatshield to try and preserve the starter with that monster header on there?
Tow things. One you can drop that compression ratio by using a thicker gasket. That is what my builder was going to do. He knows a company that make copper gaskets in varying thickness. Second I think the only way to get to a 3.3L Super Duty engine was with maximum bore and the crank used to get 3.0L. It is my understanding that they only made three different stroke cranks.
I like your cluster. Is that the old FOCOA one? Yup. FOCOA conversion kit with stick on faces. Came already on car.
I see you grabbed the alt mount/dogbone bracket- how are you going to fit those big carbs with that in place? Not using those carbs.
Are you putting on an exhaust-side heatshield to try and preserve the starter with that monster header on there? It protects the water pump and A/C compressor more.
... I think the only way to get to a 3.3L Super Duty engine was with maximum bore and the crank used to get 3.0L. It is my understanding that they only made three different stroke cranks.
As far as I could find out, finished cranks could be bought in 3.00", 3.25", 3.50" and 3.75" strokes. With the standard 4.000" bore, these would give you approximate displacements of 2.5L, 2.7L (Indy #1), 2.9L and 3.1L respectively.
It looks like GM also had an unfinished forging that could be custom ground. Shows as PN 10027777 in the Super Duty book. I think this is what went in here with a custom ground 3.9375" stroke. The block had to be ground for the connecting rod throws to clear and the oil pan was hammered out a bit for clearance.
Simple calculation works out to about 3.3L
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-03-2008).]
A very interesting and unusual Fiero. I'll bet you can't wait to get it running and back on the road. Not too many super duty Fieros out there it seems. I've always believed that Pontiac should have built the Indy with the SD4 engine but they cheaped out and went for a looks only model.
------------------ 87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Good to see all of this going to someone who appreciates it and can make it work I have a question on the pushrod guides, do they appear to be modified stock units?
I noticed your buttons were a bit "stained", if you still have them, they clean up real nice with those Armor All cleaning wipes, then the Armor All protectant wipes. The ash tray covers in mine were grey... but with a bit of cleaning with both of those... they turned black
[This message has been edited by cujoe_da_man (edited 11-04-2008).]
I thought this setup looked familiar, is this the same Indy Chester was selling back in 2006? Looks like the same engine.
Yup. This is THAT car. Since it "needs a new starter" and couldn't be started and driven onto a trailer, I had a tough time finding someone to trailer it all the way to Calgary.
What was most surprising is how worn out and terrible the condition is for a car with ONLY 19,000 miles. AND I was never told that it had been previously damaged in an accident. I definitely expected better and was misled to believe I was getting it. The pictures he posted are from when when HE bought the car 3 years earlier. It appears the car had been sitting exposed to the weather afterward - hence the deterioration, and why we see no newer pictures.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-13-2009).]
I thought this setup looked familiar, is this the same Indy Chester was selling back in 2006? Looks like the same engine.
Yeah, this is the same car. Chester really dicked the purchaser. He bought this car for $2500, sold the original Indy seats, 3 of the 4 sets of wheels it came with, let it sit unprotected for 3 years, intentionally omitted several mechanical and body issues with the vehicle, and then offered it up for $8500 without the slightest bit of guilt.
Fierosound is too mature / levelheaded to start a big flame war about it on the forum, but I'll tell you this. I wouldn't ever buy anything from Chester without looking it over in person after seeing this. Actually I might not even then. ----------------END HIGHJACK---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bump for progress. What are you doing for a 4T60 setup- are you going 4T60E? What chain and diff ratios are you using? I'll be watching this since my Pace Car is missing 2nd gear and I want OD anyway.
[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 11-04-2008).]
Yeah, this is the same car. Chester really dicked the purchaser. He bought this car for $2500, sold the original Indy seats, 3 of the 4 sets of wheels it came with, let it sit unprotected for 3 years, intentionally omitted several mechanical and body issues with the vehicle, and then offered it up for $8500 without the slightest bit of guilt.
Fierosound is too mature / levelheaded to start a big flame war about it on the forum, but I'll tell you this. I wouldn't ever buy anything from Chester without looking it over in person after seeing this. Actually I might not even then. ----------------END HIGHJACK
That's funny because I offered that same seller that much and he told me that he was getting $3000 or more and didn't offer me the chance to offer more. Just said someone was coming to pick it up before I could get there.
Yeah, this is the same car. Chester really dicked the purchaser. He bought this car for $2500, sold the original Indy seats, 3 of the 4 sets of wheels it came with, let it sit unprotected for 3 years, intentionally omitted several mechanical and body issues with the vehicle, and then offered it up for $8500 without the slightest bit of guilt.
I think Fiero5 bought the original Indy wheels from the car. Not sure who eventually bought the Indy seats.
Is the header still available new? I have my doubts. You have the perfect opportunity to replicate it. Build a jig, take lots of measurements and build away! Would be fairly easy. Just a thought.
Is the header still available new? I have my doubts. You have the perfect opportunity to replicate it. Build a jig, take lots of measurements and build away! Would be fairly easy. Just a thought.
According to the Super Duty Guide, Hooker made 2 styles of headers. I found some pictures.
PN 4702 is the 4-into-1 competition style that was used on the Indy pace car without convertor and is the one I have.
You wouldn't want this for street use. The primary pipes are huge and designed for high RPM horsepower - likely way to big for use on any Duke engine which would benefit from smaller primaries to keep engine torque up.
In addition, the long primaries and collector run so low under the cradle that it reduces road clearance by about 2 inches which would not be very good if you wanted to lower the car to boot. See the pictures above of the header in the car to see what I mean.
Also, it would be impossible to mount a rear sway bar because this header wouldn't fit between the cradle and sway bar.
A much better fit would be Hooker PN 4703 with smaller primaries and a Tri-Y design that wraps around to connect with the catalytic convertor.
A Tri-Y design is a superior on almost any engine, but isn't as common due to increased production costs associated with this design. Plus most people wouldn't buy it because they don't realize it's a better design - they want the 4 into 1 type they see on "race cars". As you can see, it pairs 2 primary pipes together into 1, then has another Y pairing those into a single exhaust pipe. This keeps exhaust velocities high for better torque throughout the engine's RPM range.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-06-2008).]
Here's on that may work..I'm thinking of ordering it? ------------------
1999 GMC Jimmy 2dr 4x4 1996 Chevy Lumina LS 1986 Fiero Base Coupe...NO OPTIONS !! 1985 Fiero GT 3800 N/A-sometime this year 3800S/C..maybe 1984 Fiero Indy-Restoring back to former glory
[This message has been edited by KEV (edited 11-06-2008).]
The only one of those three headers posted that will work is the shorty. The other two won't. I had an S-10 header I thought I could make work with some bending and cutting. Nope they just won't. I suppose maybe the top one if you took off the bottom part at the 4 into 2 collector and turned it around. But that's still alot of work and cash for a maybe.
The only one of those three headers posted that will work is the shorty. The other two won't.
Looking at it a second time, the Borla's #1 primary pipe will likely hit the water pump. If that clears, the pipe after the clamp would be scrapped and it should be possible to route around into the catalytic convertor - provided it's not hitting the cradle.
can,t wait to see more 
Information seems to be sketchy in some sources.
