Im attempting to run +12v switched power to the distributor, egr/ps pressure, and the trans round plug .
Do I take it from the injector feed or the ecm feed or somewhere else?
these would be the pink or pink/black ones. Maybe I just am missing something?
I took my +12v "hot in run" power from C203 F (in the orange circle) to power the EGR and Power Steering Pressure Switch. It's the same amperage as the caddy 12v supply and I haven't had a problem yet.
The distributor coil was powered by the C500 E3 thick pink wire on the fiero, I figure it should power the Caddy distributor coil as well. Given it's guage, it must be supplying considerably more current than the C203 F could. I ran mine across the engine to the distributor from the C500.
I found this caddy ECM wiring layout quite helpfull. OK, it's for a 95, but the wiring colors are the same as are the pinouts on the ECM side. Earlier ones won't have two O2 sensors, different trans range switch etc. To bypass the power steering switch, I just jumped from BR wire to O/B.
post edited for clarity and more pictures!
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 01-09-2013).]
85-88 Fieros have the ignition power wired to C500 E3. It is not fused before the connector so you should add a weatherproof fuse holder there.
Normally I use C203 F for the ECM and the MAF (If equipped), and the speedo buffer (if equipped)
Normally I use C203 J (INJ1) for Injector power
Normally I use C203 K for all the other power requirements. Heated O2, EVAP solenoid, Vent Solenoid, Cruise Power and Transmission Power.
Phonedawgz, the caddy 4.9 injectors are powered by two seperate 10A fuses; 4 injectors per fuse. I used C203 K for one set of four and C203 J for the other set of four. Both K and J are fused at 5A each in the fiero. I didn't want to change to 10A in case they are to protect the wiring more so than the injectors. Are you not concerned that all 8 injectors on the 4.9 will be too much for the one fused C203 J wire? Do you bump up the fuse amperage?
I do have concerns that sharing the C203 F with items other than the dedicated ECM supply could draw current away from the ECM and potentially cause issues. I know that on the 4cyl fiero it is shared with the fuel injector but stands alone ECM on the V6. I'm hoping that sharing it with the EGR and PSPS won't cause me any problems....I'm probably over-thinking things as always.
85-88 Fieros have the ignition power wired to C500 E3. It is not fused before the connector so you should add a weatherproof fuse holder there.
On this wiring print, it shows that the V6 C500 E3 has a fusible link. I've got the 4cyl, so I can't confirm what it shows in this picture, but I can confirm that on the 4cyl, the pink wire from C203 E3 is NOT fused as you have stated. What Amp fuse do you recomend putting in that weatherproof fuse holder? I'm not sure what the rating is for the fusible link in this Pic.
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 01-09-2013).]
reallybig, I'm using a modified diagram similar to the 1995 you have posted. I drew in the colors I have plus the pin positions for the trans etc. Im using a late harness with early trans, but wiring the whole thing as mickeys diagrams. This makes the colors and trans wiring wacky. As a bonus I'm fairly color blind. I know my car is red though... anyways thanks for the help.
thanks phonedawgs for the last few posts as well. seems reallybig and I are somewhere around the same wires.
I dont have it with me, but if I posted my diagram do you think you could take a look at it to double check? I seriously start to go crazy after looking at all these wires for more than a few hours at a time. I dream about wires, its weird.
When I ground to the chasis, it draws 12v thru the sensors and my temp reads 12v/5v higher or 2.4x higher than it should hence it pegs by 120F when ground to the chasis. I have the TPS and temp gauge on the same ground.
Phonedawgz, the caddy 4.9 injectors are powered by two seperate 10A fuses; 4 injectors per fuse. I used C203 K for one set of four and C203 J for the other set of four. Both K and J are fused at 5A each in the fiero. I didn't want to change to 10A in case they are to protect the wiring more so than the injectors. Are you not concerned that all 8 injectors on the 4.9 will be too much for the one fused C203 J wire? Do you bump up the fuse amperage?
On my swaps I use the INJ1 - C203 J for all injectors and fuse it at 10 A
quote
I do have concerns that sharing the C203 F with items other than the dedicated ECM supply could draw current away from the ECM and potentially cause issues. I know that on the 4cyl fiero it is shared with the fuel injector but stands alone ECM on the V6. I'm hoping that sharing it with the EGR and PSPS won't cause me any problems....I'm probably over-thinking things as always.
The ECM gets it's main power from the unswitched source. Put an amp meter on it and test. It only uses the switched source to sense if the ignition is on or off.
quote
Originally posted by Reallybig:
What Amp fuse do you recommend putting in that weatherproof fuse holder? I'm not sure what the rating is for the fusible link in this Pic.
20A
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-10-2013).]
The TEMP GAUGE grounds to the engine block. I think you mean Temp Sensor. Both grounds should be essentially the same. The sensors wire directly to the ECM for ground to avoid any less than perfect grounds causing changes in the engine operation.
Are you sure you are using the correct ECM wiring diagrams for YOUR ECM? (What is your ECM SERV #?)
quote
When I ground to the chasis, it draws 12v thru the sensors and my temp reads 12v/5v higher or 2.4x higher than it should hence it pegs by 120F when ground to the chasis. I have the TPS and temp gauge on the same ground.
Something is seriously wrong with that. Chassis ground SHOULD be the same as ECM ground. If swapping from one to the other causes significant differences, you have a grounding problem.
Are you talking about scanning the ECM and reading the temp sensor, or are you talking about the reading on the gauge?
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-10-2013).]
Is this how you normally power things phonedawgs? I used reallybigs sheet to make this terrible drawing in paint I'm using a 95 harness with an early computer and trans so the trans is a little different, but that is irrellivant for this discussion I think.
[This message has been edited by gen2muchwork (edited 01-11-2013).]
Something is seriously wrong with that. Chassis ground SHOULD be the same as ECM ground. If swapping from one to the other causes significant differences, you have a grounding problem.
Are you talking about scanning the ECM and reading the temp sensor, or are you talking about the reading on the gauge?
As you can see here, the TPS and coolant sensor share a 5v ref ground.
I swapped the temp gauge wire and CTS signal wire and the gauge reported ~160 while the CTS reported about 73C so it looks like that's all set. However my TPS still says 1.18v /60% thottle at idle at that temp. WOT sees it go to 4.88v. I jumped on the ground from the MAP sensor since that's also supposed to be a 5v ref ground. For some reason Pin F11 is an open pin on my ECM. The pin is there but it acts open.
All readings were taken using TunerPro RT with the '2240 .ads file converted to .adx...
Looking at the page I linked 2 posts ago, the TPS signal goes to B4 before it goes to F13. What is meant by B4 here? I'm thinking B4 steps it down to the proper range at this point. Right now I take the TPS signal and it's going straight to F13...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-15-2013).]
B4 is the pin of the bulkhead connector used in the Caddy. It does nothing electrically.
quote
I jumped on the ground from the MAP sensor since that's also supposed to be a 5v ref ground. For some reason Pin F11 is an open pin on my ECM. The pin is there but it acts open.
Doesn't the print say E11, not F11?
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-15-2013).]
I swapped the temp gauge wire and CTS signal wire and the gauge reported ~160 while the CTS reported about 73C so it looks like that's all set. However my TPS still says 1.18v /60% thottle at idle at that temp. WOT sees it go to 4.88v. I jumped on the ground from the MAP sensor since that's also supposed to be a 5v ref ground. For some reason Pin F11 is an open pin on my ECM. The pin is there but it acts open.
All readings were taken using TunerPro RT with the '2240 .ads file converted to .adx...
Looking at the page I linked 2 posts ago, the TPS signal goes to B4 before it goes to F13. What is meant by B4 here? I'm thinking B4 steps it down to the proper range at this point. Right now I take the TPS signal and it's going straight to F13...
are you using c225 or whatever the big connector is? I cut it out like many people have. The B4 is just a pin in a connector. the connector is the box around B4 and is refefenced on the print as a star.
If you are not using that connector, cross it out on your copy so you dont have to get confused looking at it. It helped me to just sharpie it out.
[This message has been edited by gen2muchwork (edited 01-15-2013).]
I have found a few of those when doing this that did not copy well for me too, and I almost mixed them up as well.
I had the wire there from the harness supplied by the Fiero Factory. I'm on the connector side and the 11th pin. I looked at all the other wires used and everything matches up...unless the schematic is wrong. Regardless I tied it to the MAT ground wire which should go to another 5v ref ground.
I am wondering if that bulkhead connector had some built-in resistance that knocked down the the voltage... Again, I'm using the Fiero Factory harness...
I had the wire there from the harness supplied by the Fiero Factory. I'm on the connector side and the 11th pin. I looked at all the other wires used and everything matches up...unless the schematic is wrong. Regardless I tied it to the MAT ground wire which should go to another 5v ref ground.
I am wondering if that bulkhead connector had some built-in resistance that knocked down the the voltage... Again, I'm using the Fiero Factory harness...
The only built in resistance is corrosion. Take a look at the schematic. There are two 5v returns. Tps goes with cts. Map and mat.
man time goes by - 5 years since I did the original write up and good to see that others have also taken up the cause to help some of the newbies (I haven't been on here in ages).
Anyways, just bumping the thread since I am still getting a fair number of emails asking.
This and a few other pages are getting me through my swap. I can't thank you guys enough for what y'all have done.
This is a great thread to use! Everything you need for wiring / vacuum lines, etc is here. Helped me take care of all the tricky stuff. It's a definite "must read" for anyone doing the 4.9 swap.
IMPORTANT: the server that I have all my pictures on will be shutting down in the near future - so if you want to keep this as reference, download/copy the pages/pictures and save as a word file so that you have a copy of any of my pictures. Sorry, no I will not be going through all the posts (editing them) and relocating the pictures to a different location.
Here is an archive of the first post of this thread I took awhile ago, all the pics that were lost are here once again! Click on the links to view them.
http://imgur.com/zJdIydz
http://imgur.com/3zlZOJD
http://imgur.com/XWbfT3L
http://imgur.com/H7Eanep
http://imgur.com/H7Eanep
http://imgur.com/wnjE78r
http://imgur.com/cbbKRT3
http://imgur.com/mHHRi2z
http://imgur.com/IxMNkdV
http://imgur.com/jT314P5
http://imgur.com/jtRR5tu
http://imgur.com/mTyBcjw
http://imgur.com/u9asEM5
http://imgur.com/C5elQmh
http://imgur.com/Hz08pP3
http://imgur.com/bUZrLZi
http://imgur.com/dwrCz5I
http://imgur.com/2fRt8um
http://imgur.com/2fRt8um
http://imgur.com/5rKFAGu
http://imgur.com/33T6HeL
http://imgur.com/6UG1UQz
http://imgur.com/H7Ep6lS
http://imgur.com/5OhIxzF
------------------ "Discord" Red 1988 GT under restoration!
Thanks Mickey_Moose! This still remains as the best source of info for the 4.9 swap. I don't think I could have completed mine without it.
thumbsup:
This was an excellent thread but IIRC the OP finished the swap didn't have any oil pressure but rather than replacing the oil pump (easy BTW) he scrapped the project. Just wonder if he ever got the 4.9L working.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
This was an excellent thread but IIRC the OP finished the swap didn't have any oil pressure but rather than replacing the oil pump (easy BTW) he scrapped the project. Just wonder if he ever got the 4.9L working.
???
If you are referring to me - the swap was completed and drove daily for several years, this car then became a project once again when I swapped in the f-body interior after seeing JScott's thread - and then I drove it daily some more. I then changed jobs and had too many cars in the garage, so this one was cut (sold to a young kid in Saskatchewan). Sometimes I miss it.
Also, never had an issue with the oil pump - the only issues I had with the car was destroying a SPEC clutch (back when they used cheap metal on the pressure plate and the springs broke out) and and early overheating issue (which was attributed to an air bubble in the system). Edit: actually I killed a Centerforce clutch early - piece of crap would not hold when the beans would be put to it - SPEC at least sent me the new modified pressure plate, Centerforce basically said too bad...
This car had gone through a lot of transformations: originally a 86 4 cyl coupe, then a 4.9l "SE", then custom tail lights (design based on the 91 GTA), then a "GT", then the f-body interior. lol
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 06-05-2019).]
If you are referring to me - the swap was completed and drove daily for several years, this car then became a project once again when I swapped in the f-body interior after seeing JScott's thread - and then I drove it daily some more. I then changed jobs and had too many cars in the garage, so this one was cut (sold to a young kid in Saskatchewan). Sometimes I miss it.
Also, never had an issue with the oil pump - the only issues I had with the car was destroying a SPEC clutch (back when they used cheap metal on the pressure plate and the springs broke out) and and early overheating issue (which was attributed to an air bubble in the system). Edit: actually I killed a Centerforce clutch early - piece of crap would not hold when the beans would be put to it - SPEC at least sent me the new modified pressure plate, Centerforce basically said too bad...
This car had gone through a lot of transformations: originally a 86 4 cyl coupe, then a 4.9l "SE", then custom tail lights (design based on the 91 GTA), then a "GT", then the f-body interior. lol
Oops, sorry about that. I was referring to Josef644 build that lost oil pressure. He did a neat 4.9L swap but lost oil pressure, then gave up and put in a 3.4L P/R engine.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I'm still driving my 88 4.9. Puts a smile on my face every time I turn the key! A bit worse for wear cuz I drive it year round. On my second isuzu 5spd; (stripped second gear), but kept the centre force clutch. So far so good!
I don't have a specific thread, but I took all the information from this thread. There were some challenges mating the tach with the 4.9l, but got it all sorted along with some other novel solutions to some problems (HVAC controls). My pictures in this thread are also probably dead, but they are too spread out over many pages for me to really go back and update the links. I probably have some pictures laying around of the finished product if you are really interested. lol
I never resolved my code. Runs pig rich so I stuck E85 in it and it seems to not run rich but has cold-start issues. Blew a Getrag transmission mount. Waiting for a replacement. Can't seem to kill it...
