Ok I was wrong, but its ok. I thought this info could be useful to you. Remember when I told you my misfires went away after cleaning the injectors, I was wrong. It was a combination of that and something else. After I cleaned the injectors I took it out to get on it and it had NO power and the minute I got on it it started misfiring again at WOT!!! I was ticked so I parked it. Well yesterday I went outside and did a little tinkering and cleaned my plugs. Well I had a brand new delco ICM I had been thinking of changing but pretty much everyone told me that that shouldnt be causing my misfire issues because they said ICM usually work either 100% or 0% of the time. Of course mine was different. I changed the ICM, let the car warm up and took it for a spin again, and all I have to say is FREAKIN WOW. I nearly crapped myself. I have never driven something like that before! Seriously I was shaking when I finished, and best of all, not a single misfire!!! So if, after you explore all other options, you still have a misfire, try a new ***DELCO*** ICM.

Yea the truck and the camaro style flotech afterburner look very similar. I just got mine at advance auto, told them I needed the camaro muffler, got it in a day.

If I can't get anything figured out I'll definitely swap out the ICM, thanks for the tip! I was really happy with the guy at spintech, he seemed to be enthused about what he was doing and for future reference, the fiero split case spintech is smaller than the one that is listed on their site.

I'm cutting it close! classes start a week after tomorrow 3 hours away from where the fiero's sitting now!

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-16-2009).]

In looking up the ICM on rockauto, it cross-referenced the ICM AC Delco PN with a lot of older vehicles as well. It lists 92-93 bonneville SSEI but not a 94-95 SSEI (Which I have an ICM from). I'm wondering, why would it not work? The connector is exactly the same on my 94's ICM.

Edit: With a little more research I found out that rockauto doesn't list an SSEI for the years 94-95. This would explain why the PN only applied to 92-93.
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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-17-2009).]

Why would you have a non series2 ICM? I guess they would be similar, but I figure it is asking for trouble running S1 parts on a S2. They are listed as a cross referencing part, but you can try a new one if you only pay like $20 for it.


go to car-part.com and get a new ICM and try it out.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 08-18-2009).]

I have a non series 2 icm due to the fact that I purchased a whole 1994 Bonneville for $100 to attempt to swap in the Series 1. If the AC Delco part # is exactly the same I can't see why there would be a problem.

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I wasnt saying specifically that that was the issue.. I just lends a bit to the idea as that ICM is almost 16 years old now?

I haven't swapped it in yet, it's just nice to know that I can swap that one in to TEST out the ICM. If the one I'm currently using (2000) is bad then the 1994 one should make it work for the time being.

Update: The muffler will be here FRIDAY. My classes begin 3 hours away on the following monday. It's not looking like I'll be driving this down to Lincoln before classes start .
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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-18-2009).]

Update - pics on the front page, headed back home today to install the new rodney dickman slave cylinder and bleed the brakes to hopefully get it out of the shop.

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We made some progress tonight. My dad was out there helping me (ex-hotrodder and dirt oval racer) and we pulled the plug on #6. It came up a lot closer to .063" gap. We brought the gap down to .055" and now it is actually sputtering off and on like it's randomly firing on that cylinder.

That really screws up the idle and now it's dying when it tries to idle. I put a noid light on the injector connector and it is firing based on the engine rpm. Why would bringing the gap down cause it to actually fire every now and then? We replaced the plug afterwards with one that was set to .055" and it didn't seem to make a difference. It was still just sputtering off and on.

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9/10 spark issues I ever have turn out to be plug wires....

You were right on. I think that all I needed to do was put a combination of a non-fouled plug in and have the right plug wires go to the right plugs. Before I left to lincoln the last time I pulled the ends off of the coil pack end to clean them off (used soap to squeeze the wires through) and let them dry off. When I reassembled I reversed plugs 2 & 6. Before that time I had verified the plug wires went to the right place. I had changed spark plugs before the drying, and assume that it was fouled with fuel for whatever reason.

Tonight we had our first breakthrough decreasing the plug gap from .063 to .055. That made cylinder #6 start sputtering to life but it didn't sound right. On a hunch I went under the car to make sure I got the plug wires going to the right place, and traced the problem cylinder #6 to coil pack plug #2. We switched #2 and 6 around at the coil pack end, and what do you know? It runs like a top.

I still can't figure out what caused it to have so many problems when I verified the plug wires went to the right cylinder before. I don't care anymore though, all 6 cylinders are firing! Thanks for all the help guys!

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Took it into the exhaust shop yesterday. I have classes all week and will be headed back after my last class on friday. Hopefully the engine will be behaving better with an exhaust on it.

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We've had a few setbacks at the exhaust shop. The flange I ordered from ZZP didn't have the right bolt pattern. He ordered a flange based on my flange assuming it was the right one, so now we have two bad flanges. He found out rather quickly he couldn't bend pipe as tight as was needed to fit the exhaust, so he's ordered some mandrel bends to make it possible.

On a side note - Unless the exhaust remarkably makes the engine vibrations go away, I'll be taking the engine back out of the car to re-check the flywheel. Apparently it's possible to force the flywheel into a position that it wasn't supposed to be in. You should be able to thread the bolts in by hand until they come in contact with the flywheel. If you're having difficulties, rotate it until you no longer have difficulties.

I'll hopefully post a video of the car when it's done at the exhaust shop.

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You are correct. It is possible to get the bolt holes in a position that is really really close and get the bolts in the holes, but they would be tight and require a wrench to finish installing. The holes will line up at a point that the bolts will go in by hand however when correct. I match the flexplates to the manual flywheels and index the extra hole marks to even by more sure.

A+ (¯`'·.¸o(^_^)o¸.·'´¯) A+ http://www.fastfieros.com A+ (¯`'·.¸<(•¿•)>¸.·'´¯) A+

I vaguely remember having to finish off the bolts with a ratchet before they mated to the flywheel. The thing shook bad on 5 cylinders and even now that I have it running on 6 it still vibrates the car like crazy. Stupid Stupid me!

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Well, I picked up the fiero from the exhaust shop this weekend. It's fully mandrel-bent stainless steel. Yay!



Now this coming weekend I get to drop the engine back out and try to figure out why it's vibrating as badly as it is.

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 09-21-2009).]

Mind sharing how much you paid to have that done?

While I didnt read over the whole thread, If your using polyurethane mounts and or solid mounts and they are not something your used to then it may seem like excessive vibration when its actually pretty normal if this was covered and I missed it in my skimming feel free to ignore. If not just something to think about.

The exhaust tally -

Muffler - ~$160
Labor - $120
Flex joint and tubing - $230
Flange - ~$10

The exhaust shop charged me just a smidge under $350 and I supplied them with the muffler, tips, and flange.

FieroFiend - I don't blame you for not reading the entire thread, I never intended it to be this long! I wish I had someone local who could sit in the car and tell me if the vibrations are normal or not. I really wouldn't classify them as violent, but I wouldn't say they are minor either. I'm going to do a few last checks to get the engine running a little smoother and then I'll take her for a drive before calling the shot.

Well I've made some progress. Cyl #6 isn't a problem anymore and I was able to test mount the exhaust and get the scanner hooked up. The scanner has revealed a few other problems.

#1 O2 Heat circuit (wiring most likely)
#2 Cyl 3 misfire

Spark plug from cyl 3 (cyl 1 also looked just like this, but didn't have as even of a distribution of carbon).


I replaced the plug with a cheapo and gapped it to .045 to make sure the cyl would fire and cleared the code. The cyl 3 misfire came back pretty quickly. I'm taking the engine back out to look at the flywheel and I'll be taking the coil pack in to get it checked because 3 and 6 are on the same coil. I'm not that great at reading plugs, but doesn't it look like it's getting too hot?

Scanner info at idle (BBV removed)

MAP - 10
TPS - 0
STFT - varies from 5-15
LTFT - 15
o2 voltage - .05 - .9
o2 % - 15
ECT - <180

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 09-26-2009).]

That stage 4 clutch is WAY overkill for your build and you are going to hate it on the street. A stage 2 is plenty for a 3800SC and will give you a smooth engagement and a much lighter pedal. As for the excess vibration you're feeling FieroFiend is right, it's from the poly mounts. Welcome to the love-hate world of modified cars. The more "sticker" items you use the less you'll enjoy driving it on the street.

So far I have loved the engagement of the stage 4. It doesn't feel any different than the stock clutch did. Are you speaking from experience? It doesn't have a harsh engagement at all, takes no more pedal pressure, and so far hasn't chattered at me.

Yeah, I have a stage 3 on a 430hp/430tq V8. If you go back and step on a bone-stock Fiero clutch you'll feel the difference. You'll want to keep a supply of brass pedal pivot bushings on hand as you'll be going through them frequently. Slave cylinder seals too.

I own a '02 6-speed sentra so maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges. I haven't drove my stock clutch fiero in over 2 years, but from what I remember it doesn't take any additional pressure. The engagement is just as smooth if not smoother and less harsh than a stock '02 sentra.

I'm running out of time and money, all I have left is the rest of today and next weekend before I have to pick up a weekend job to pay the bills. After I disconnected everything and drained the coolant I pulled the spark plug wires off the coil packs and noticed a lot of rusty looking corrosion build-up on the posts particularly bad on the 3/6 coil pack. This will be the third time I'll have had to clean up these posts so I'm going to be looking for some dialectric grease soon.

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I'm sending the injectors off to get cleaned.

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 10-03-2009).]

This is not uncommon for fuel rails on the 3800's. I have seen only 3 on one side almost completely stopped up, and the other 3 are brand new looking.

http://www.fastfieros.com/catalog.htm

It looks like the injectors were in alright shape. We'll see how everything runs a few weekends from now.

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 10-19-2009).]

That is some nice paper work they provided. What did they charge for those 6 injectors?

http://www.fastfieros.com/tech

that is nice paper work. and X2 on the cost.

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2001 Grand Prix GT: supercharged L36, XP Hot cam, SSAC headers, 3.4 pulley. 12.99 @107 MPH

looking for a Fiero

Edit: Haven't really come through on customer service like I would like them to. The numbers they came up with for flow-rate are impossible to come up with.

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 10-19-2009).]

Injector-Rehabs webpage is down.

Apparently your 33# injectors flow 39#' now...

IDK what that deal is with those readings.....

thank you for bringing that to my attention DH. Upon further investigation, those are some strange numbers to be had from stock injectors. I did some research on the part number they put in the flow data and sent them the following message.

quote I just calculated the flow of my injectors based on your cc number. it states that I now have 39-40# injectors when I should have 33# injectors. GM Ratings for stock injectors 12.2 Ohm, 354cc @ 3 Bar (33.71 lbs/hr @ 3 Bar) 34.28 lbs/hr @ 45 psi I'm showing this flow # for the 0280155811 injector The Bosch 0280155811 flows 375cc/min at a tested pressure of 3 bar (43.5 psi). If the engine was designed for 354cc injectors stock, a 416cc flow rate could cause some issues. You are 100% sure that 416cc is the correct reading?

we'll see what they say back.

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I noticed it as I know that CC is typically a nearly direct conversion to lb/m... its like, multiply lb/m by 10.04 or something close to it, to get CC.

I would guess that their scale is just broken.. I dont see how an injector gets older and flows more...

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-19-2009).]

Man this thread is getting way too long.

Still NO reply from injector rehab. I'm going to pull down the good things I've said about them. I haven't been able to contact them since I paid them. Keep going with http://cruzinperformance.com/ for your injector needs!

I'm headed back tomorrow for some fall break fiero work. We'll see if clean injectors help at all.... If I still have problems I'm going to switch out the ICM. That is basically my last resort.

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I have a feeling you're going to like the way that 333 split case is going to sound.




Build looks good. Hope the injectors work out.

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 10-19-2009).]

Spark plug wires!! Arghhh they're driving me nuts.

#6 plug wire had a bad end. The spiral core snapped where it went into the end. Anyone want to make me a set? lol. I hate spending $100+ for this 8.5mm set and having a set full of bad ends.

I found a set! It's for a v10 but it's the only set NAPA had that had a length of >52" with normal-style ends. The part # is 700911. It's for a v10 but it's only $60 and has all varying lengths from 58" down to something like 10" so I think it should have the correct lengths for people who put the coil pack down below behind the gas tank.

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 10-20-2009).]

Well everything went smoothly today. I switched out the spark plugs with brand new v-powers gapped to .050" and swapped out the wires with the wires from the v10 kit. The PCM is still telling me I have a misfire on cyl 3.

At least this trip was productive. Last night and this morning I -
Tried a seperate ICM with different coils, no change
Sent the injectors off to be cleaned, no change
Installed new factory spark plug wires, no change
Installed 6 brand new ngk v-powers gapped to .050, no change

CPU scan info this morning -

STFT - ~0-3
LTFT - 16.4
O2 voltage - ~0.0 - 0.15
Spark Adv - 6*

I'm beginning to think that I have a mechanical problem somewhere in the engine. I don't currently have the funds to do anything else to the car. This thread will be sitting for a while (along with my fiero) until I get the funds and time to take the engine out and do a teardown.

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Any way that you can check compression on three?