I will say that justin is a great driver, he knows how to keep his trans in 1 piece and run it pretty hard.
I would say if someone was a bit crazier than justin, they could have ran basically as fast as they wanted to on that nitrous setup, lol. I just have no idea how much the trans would take it. He only sprayed in 3rd/4th gear, with some in 2nd gear.
when i first did the swap the only real engine mod i had was a 3.4 pulley and a 4 speed. i ran 12.6@108 Dark with his auto trans ran 12.8@107 i believe with just a 3.4 pulley just a 150k miles $250 junkyard engine. Its not hard to get some decent power with a good tune
The only person Banned on the DHP Forum is FastFieros and that was done by Charles a Long, Long, Long Time ago and it wasn't for trash talking....
Are you completely crazy Scott? You expect me to just sit back and let you trash talk me? You were not even tuning on cars when I was on the DHP forums. You have no clue what the real issue was between me and Charles. It was actually between me, ZZP, and Charles. Your right, it nothing to do with trash talking on DHP forums because that is not my style. Unlike you are the worse instigator this forum has today.
Got it going tonight. L a a a aaggg city, hopefully we'll get the vgt working tomorrow. On 9psi it felt a little faster than supercharged. It feels good having it on the road again, being down for 2 weeks sucked. Nothing broke YET!
I want to note that he has never driven a turbo car, ever.... and the tune is still a bit on the safe (ok well I didnt change much of the spool area yet) side.
Wont be that hard to bump up the spool rpms a bit, and once the driver learns how a 700+hp turbo car works.
Got it going tonight. L a a a aaggg city, hopefully we'll get the vgt working tomorrow. On 9psi it felt a little faster than supercharged. It feels good having it on the road again, being down for 2 weeks sucked. Nothing broke YET!
im kind of suprised that it has a lot of lag. the turbo in your setup isn't much bigger than my holset and it spooled up pretty well as soon i hit the throttle (on a 2.8/3.4 running 12lbs mind you)..i would have thought with the added torque of the 3800 it would be decently responsive. i hope you can get the VGT to work, hopefully that and upping the boost a little after tuning will clear everything up.
btw, i really like the way your turbo i mounted, looks like you have a decent gravity line for the oil return and i'm sick of the turbo in the engine bay..reallyyyy hot in there lol
So you're saying that thing has the spool characteristics of a 700+hp honda?? Everyone here knows that thing isn't close to 700, lol.
I was just saying it has the flow characteristics of a 700 crank hp car. Its really not that bad.
quote
the turbo in your setup isn't much bigger than my holset and it spooled up pretty well
Its quite a bit bigger... almost double the size of a 12cm hx35. The compressor wheel is also the size of a hx40 pro 6blade.
The DSM guys are spooling this turbo in the 4k range, brake boosting... We made full boost under 3 without trying to make boost lower than that... so like I said, the spool times are relative. I have logs that will show this.
The car is crazy quiet. At idle with the vgt open it has a nice rumble but when you close it, its almost silent. I would say its quieter than a brand new compact car.
Originally posted by darkhorizon: Its quite a bit bigger... almost double the size of a 12cm hx35. The compressor wheel is also the size of a hx40 pro 6blade. The DSM guys are spooling this turbo in the 4k range, brake boosting... We made full boost under 3 without trying to make boost lower than that... so like I said, the spool times are relative. I have logs that will show this.
As soon as I saw the trunk shot of the turbo I thought it was unusually large for a 3800. The Turbonetics rep suggested a T66 for my engine so you're not far off there but the turbine housing size from what I have researched should be around .69 as high as 6-700 hp so the turbine housing along with the larger turbine wheel is probably the cause of the slow spool up.
Trap speed dropped because I enriched it up a tad bit too much, and the slave cyl broke before he could get another run. It had a ~12.2@116 in it at 9psi.
I guessed 117 traps before we went, I feel like I had it nailed down pretty good.
i managed a 1.9 60' so i guess the lag isn't toooo bad. Its quite a bit faster than the supercharged setup, just feels different and i'm not used to it. Its going to be crazy with another 7psi
[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 09-30-2009).]
I expected MAYBE 117's, its only flowing 38lb/m worth of air right now on 9psi. I run 56lb/m or so, and he should be able to run more than that due to the exhaust housing, and bigger compressor. So I would say those results were pretty good considering he is running about half the airflow he will be running.
Put the actuator on today to control the VGT. Started out with it at about 5-10% open. Instaboost in first and blew the tires off the car. Cruising around sounded like a jet plain with the turbo spooling like crazy, any touch of the throttle and it just would take off. So i adjusted it to start out at about 60% open and that seems to be the sweet spot. Taking off from a stop at 2krpm felt just like the supercharger it built boost very smoothly and launched car out of the hole. No shift lag it would go right to 9-10psi instantly. I wish I could of had this done yesterday I know it would run at least 12.0 now
This project is funded by my winnings at a circle track spectator drags over the last couple of months. So its basically free to me. Scott posted some videos a while ago. Here is the one from last weekend. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERK_krZfxiU I may put it in the video section.
Kinda late and off topic but I really enjoyed watching this video over and over again one night last week. Congrats on your build and keep the circle and 1/4 mile track videos coming.
Put the actuator on today to control the VGT. Started out with it at about 5-10% open. Instaboost in first and blew the tires off the car. Cruising around sounded like a jet plain with the turbo spooling like crazy, any touch of the throttle and it just would take off. So i adjusted it to start out at about 60% open and that seems to be the sweet spot. Taking off from a stop at 2krpm felt just like the supercharger it built boost very smoothly and launched car out of the hole. No shift lag it would go right to 9-10psi instantly. I wish I could of had this done yesterday I know it would run at least 12.0 now
Inquiring minds want to know about your VGT actuator.
Regular old school waste gate actuator, basically welded to the VGT arm. Its "default closed" position is about at the 50% mark of the VGT operating range (which is about 50 degrees of rotation). At 8psi, the spring pressure of the wastegate actuator, the VGT slides open to full.
Right now I'm assuming the exhaust housing is at around 12cm and then at ~6psi it starts to open and at ~8-9psi the vgt rack is fully open to a 24cm exhaust housing. This should be more noticeable when I'm running 16-18psi. It will be interesting to see logs and track time differences by adjusting the base position. When I do my circle track races I may close the vgt rack way down so its more responsive.
Float city on 1.9 rockers and stock springs... Expected this so we will go back to 1.6's for the time being.
Almost touched 400 g/s flow numbers... between the float sessions. The float was only slightly noticeable by feeling it some times, it was mostly visible in the scans where power in third dropped off pretty quickly around 4800rpms, and in 4th gear it pretty much just floated the whole time, resulting in 330ish g/s flow (when I expected 450).
My 1.8 rockers on the same boost in my automatic car, have never shown signs of floating before. It flows about 430-440g/s most times at the same boost level as this car is at, and this turbo is just plain amazing, which brings me to issue number 2.
The intercooler is pretty much trash... It was designed with 2 inlet/outlets at the bottom... and after a bunch of beating on it.. the intercooler stayed pretty damn warm from what I am used to, but never got TOO hot (because the turbo was not making hardly any heat) Turns out the 2 outlets on the bottom just open into nothing, and the nice cool water just sits around down there and does a quick u-turn, and doesnt even attempt to flow through the cores.
In the picture, it is quite obvious to see that the "water end tank" is just a wide open cavern, with no divider to separate the 2 cores inside.
i got all my intercooler and piping stuff from silicone intakes. com .the prices are good and their stuff is great .the one mistake i made when i ordered my water/ air intercooler was i thought the specs said "good up to 450 hp" when actually it said " good up to 450 cfm ".so i ended up having to buy another , bigger one . what exactly is VGT ? i know nothing about holset turbos .
My current opinion is that it didnt do much... Still finding some KR in 4th gear, but it seems to be getting a bit confused and going a bit lean during shifts. Going to adjust base PE a bit to see if that fixes it.
The water lines are some extra underground natural gas line I had laying around. They work really well, nice and ridged, just have to heat it up a bit before i clamp it.
The front mount Heat Exchanger is from an 88 voyager. It was a tight squeeze but fits well.
The water pump is from a 2000 Montana mini van with rear heat. I looked for this at 3 different junk yards and spent like 3 hours. Scott stopped at one and found it in 5 minutes for $8.
Stainless icebox/water tank. Not the prettiest thing but it works. There is still room for a spare tire. Holds about 2.5 gallons
The vgt controller is waste gate actuator
Removed the rotors from the supercharger housing and put a block off plate on. I would like to put a NA intake on with HV3 in the future.
Type RS blow off valve, used, cleaned it up and it works good now $15. It looks like its pretty close to the muffler but it stays cool.
Maybe you should have bought a T fitting and put it on one of the bottom ports, with the elbow on the other. Do this to the top, then you can duel feed the core.
Maybe you should have bought a T fitting and put it on one of the bottom ports, with the elbow on the other. Do this to the top, then you can duel feed the core.
I would have to suggest that this wouldnt matter, as the end tanks are almost definitely completely wide open. If we had a bad ass high flow pump moving alot of water, I would consider the advantages, but I dont think it matters.
SOMEONE neglected to put a IAT sensor in, so I wont ever really know how the change of IC helped intake temps. I am fairly disappointed at what I am seeing from this setup right now on the scans... its not flowing hardly as much as I want, and knocking quite a bit more than I want.
I am fairly disappointed at what I am seeing from this setup right now on the scans... its not flowing hardly as much as I want, and knocking quite a bit more than I want.
He needs something to compensate for the lack of airflow, so the E85 should be a good deal.
I changed my car over to the same injectors/injector constant that Justin is using... and my peak flow numbers were moved in line with his a bit better... I still flow more, but as much anymore (was peaking around 58lb/m, now i am around 53 due to some issues with the calculation that I do not fully understand as of yet). I am still running about a psi less than he is. Rockers would bring those back in line I would guess... but I am a bit surprised as I suspected that a bigger exhaust side would equate to more power.. but I suppose that my suspicions were wrong, at least at this level of airflow.
My intake temps should be significantly higher than his due to his intercooler and turbo being right in the center of their efficiency ranges... and mine is slowly falling off the ranges of peak efficiency.. Airflow wise, that puts Justin at 49-50lb/m at 16psi, and me at 53-54lb/m at 14.5psi. He is now 100% stock motor, with a gutted blower case, and 1.6 stock rockers, and I have yellaterra pushrods, 1.8 rockers (full roller tip/forged aluminum), and stock springs.
I would have to say that the rockers would make that flow difference possible... I am planning on fixing a few things on Justins car due to some issues I feel would be worth addressing.
[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-07-2009).]
Called out one of my buddies with a supra (fully built, high compression 2ZJ-GTE, T74 turbo, built head, giant cams, est 620whp on 93, 950-1000whp on Q16).
Justin spun a ton from a 50 roll in 2nd... but he sorta got a lead, so they were dead even when he went into 3rd. He then walked about 2-3 cars on him in 3rd and 4th gear. Supra was on pump gas and "short shifted because he didnt think he needed to try".
I dont consider it a huge accomplishment, because that supra has never put up a real number in any form, other than feeling fast, but its cool that he beat him.
