From reading and talking with others that run the same it looks to be around 550-600HP......
Dratts should have some numbers that you can base on soon. Fieroking needs to get the trans in, and should have it on the dyno. You will have yourself a monster there, and still get impressive gas mileage out of her.
You'll need a good cam and a good IC to do that on 93 octane. Otherwise it should do fine with race gas and a stock motor.
Gonna keep XP in and IC I will be running is rated up to 1000 HP from what the site says. Hell anything over 450 will be plenty. This will still be my DD to work...
Well, I'm on the hunt for an F23 now. Yesterday I noticed I was leaking oil about 20 miles from home. When I got home it was leaving a trail all down the road and into the driveway. It looks like its coming from inside the bell housing. Either the input shaft seal went out on me or I cracked the case inside there somewhere. Not making any noises or anything yet. The clutch isn't slipping so it hasn't contaminated it. Sort of wish I would have just done this during the winter. The weather in Michigan is fantastic right now!
I just finished driving back on Sunday night... of course you would be having awesome weather up there NOW... the whole time I was there it was typical chilly/rainy save for a day or two.
It'll be interesting to see how an F23 will hold up to your 3800 and how it will affect your 1/4 times. Assuming you get the 3.94 FD version and don't combine two F23's to get the lower 3.63 FD, the shifts are going to be even shorter then the 282. I'm close to driving my F23 for the first time as well.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-15-2012).]
It'll be interesting to see how an F23 will hold up to your 3800 and how it will affect your 1/4 times. Assuming you get the 3.94 FD version and don't combine two F23's to get the lower 3.63 FD, the shifts are going to be even shorter then the 282. I'm close to driving my F23 for the first time as well.
I remember reading about the hybrid setup somewhere. Do you have a link to the thread? Is it as simple as unbolting and bolting the cases back together. What car do I search for?
edit, 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt (economy package 3.63:1 FDR is RPO FY1) sound right? My local choice junk yard as 2...hmmm
I remember reading about the hybrid setup somewhere. Do you have a link to the thread? Is it as simple as unbolting and bolting the cases back together. What car do I search for?
edit, 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt (economy package 3.63:1 FDR is RPO FY1) sound right? My local choice junk yard as 2...hmmm
I don't have a link besides L67's F23 tutorial, that I know of. But yes it's as simple as swapping cases. Makes it easier for you if you use the cobalt gearset side of the case, since that has bosses for a mount in the stock location at the front of the cradle. But yes that is the correct car/application. The PITA part is just finding and buy two F23's and swap the bellhousing side of the case from a 2000-2002 J-body onto the FY1 F23.
Nosrac, Dayum that turbo looks really big on there. I am sure you are pretty excited about the prospect of making your car even faster than it already is. I wish you the best of luck with this and that you get the speed and power you hope for. I HOPE to be going 3800 Turbo soon myself. Never had a turbo car before and I am really anxious to get it done and enjoy some serious power. Are you planning a build thread with this setup so we can all see what goes into it. Peace
Nosrac, Dayum that turbo looks really big on there. I am sure you are pretty excited about the prospect of making your car even faster than it already is. I wish you the best of luck with this and that you get the speed and power you hope for. I HOPE to be going 3800 Turbo soon myself. Never had a turbo car before and I am really anxious to get it done and enjoy some serious power. Are you planning a build thread with this setup so we can all see what goes into it. Peace
Pete
I will have some build pics. My car should be a solid 10 sec car when done, I hope. Right now, I need to nail down my L26 vacuum routing. Unfortunately I won't be doing the wrenching but will be doing most of the design.
I assume that is the intake that you had asked me if I Could make for you awhile back huh? Who did you wind up getting it made by? I am trying to figure out what motor I should go with. I see so many numbers out here l26,l36,l67, etc... I know some of the NA intakes are good and whatnot but I am pretty lost on this stuff so far. Is that intake on a standard L67 LIM? Do you mind sharing some of your specifics of the build so I can understand what you are doing. Watching your car run as an SC car it sure looks impressive. Your car is a 4t65E right? What model and year vehicle did you get it from and what do you have done to it to try to handle this monster power you intend to make? Thanks man...peace
I assume that is the intake that you had asked me if I Could make for you awhile back huh? Who did you wind up getting it made by? I am trying to figure out what motor I should go with. I see so many numbers out here l26,l36,l67, etc... I know some of the NA intakes are good and whatnot but I am pretty lost on this stuff so far. Is that intake on a standard L67 LIM? Do you mind sharing some of your specifics of the build so I can understand what you are doing. Watching your car run as an SC car it sure looks impressive. Your car is a 4t65E right? What model and year vehicle did you get it from and what do you have done to it to try to handle this monster power you intend to make? Thanks man...peace
Pete
Yes, thats it. I found one on ClubGP, it is a Custom built from Stamatta for L67 LIM or S2 IC.
I'm going with L26/HV3 insert cause it's soo pretty and I'm donating my "change my mind" parts to MstangsBware.
Nice man....so you are going with an L67 block and heads and the l26 NA intake and what the hell is the other thing the HV3 insert? Is that a custom piece or part from another car? I really hope whatever you build here kicks ass and gets you into the tens.... I know you love dragracing that thing so bigger, better, faster... Good luck with that. What fuel pump are you using, what injectors are you planning, what cam do you intend to use with what lifters? I am trying to figure this stuff out for an eventual build myself so any information is valuable. Peace]
Nice man....so you are going with an L67 block and heads and the l26 NA intake and what the hell is the other thing the HV3 insert? Is that a custom piece or part from another car? I really hope whatever you build here kicks ass and gets you into the tens.... I know you love dragracing that thing so bigger, better, faster... Good luck with that. What fuel pump are you using, what injectors are you planning, what cam do you intend to use with what lifters? I am trying to figure this stuff out for an eventual build myself so any information is valuable. Peace]
Pete
I will start a new thread so I don't steal Justin's thunder.
Also, Mine is NOT a low dollar turbo project.
[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 05-04-2012).]
Just an update to this thread since I've taken it over as my build thread. Finished the F23 hybrid swap using the 2000 Cavalier bell housing and a 2010 cobalt gear side with FY1 3.63 gears.
Installed Yellow Stuff EBC brake pads on all four corners and WOW, you can call me and EBC fan boy now. These things are incredible. I'm going to look into EBC anytime I do a brake job on any vehicle I own now.
I was at a pretty fun car meet bbq over the weekend and found some pictures that someone took of my car. It was funny to see people walking buy browsing at all the cars, back pedal when they looked inside my engine bay. They kept doing the "wait,what" responses.
I noticed that my turbo was sagging and actually touching the sway bar last week. I ordered some new header wrap (DEI 010127 2" Titanium Exhaust/ Header Wrap) Awesome stuff. I like it a lot better than the fiberglass stuff I had before.
Saturday I took the manifold off and it was pretty bad. I was planning on just tilting flange back up to where it is supposed to be but I just scrapped it instead and started from scratch on a new one. The bottom was squashed inward. The #2 primary was almost going back towards the engine. The manifold was ballooned out on the bottom instead of being flat. I'm sure this was affecting flow somewhat.
I ran a brace from the bottom turbo flange down to a bolt that holds a shield for the knock sensor. I ran a brace from the top of the turbo flange to the header flange. I also put a plate of steel around the bottom on the manifold. I'll wait for Ryan to say, I told you so...
Since I was in this deep I decided to move the wastegate over to the crossover and then plumb the dump into the exhaust, pre muffler. I'm hoping this will quiet it down a bit under full boost. (I need the least amount of attention as possible) I think I like it over there better than coming out of the old o2 bung area. I wire wheeled everything clean and put some 2000* header paint on it all then wrapped it.
This ended up being A LOT more work that I had planned, hopefully its worth it. I have to do a few heat cycles for the header paint so I wasn't able to drive it yet to see if there is a difference in sound and power.
Looks much better! I'm thinking i'm going to try and completely support the weight of my Holset by an expanding joint on the trunk wall or else where...keep as little weight off the manifold as possible.
Justin, I am wondering exactly how much does that turbo weigh? I am amazed at how simple that setup really is. I know it looks like plumbing going everywhere but is that a stock exhaust manifold? It sure looks like a stocker, what does your front manifold look like? The lines going to the center of the turbo are as you stated in the Mattwa thread for liquid cooling of the electronics? I am sure one is for the oil bath for the turbo of course. Still planning my setup here and there is much to be learned from you guys from viewing what you have done. That cold air elbow off the intake is that a pre bent one? Did you have it bent in that direction or is it just flexible and conforms? Where did you source all of your cold air tubing and hardware from? I know that car flat out hauls ass so it is quite inspiring to me that you have been able to do it so inexpensively relatively speaking. What kind of intake temperatures are you able to get with the intercooler? I always wondered how effective the intercooler is being behind the hot engine bay like that. I know a lot of air circulates back there and even under the car but just not sure completely. I cannot wait to start my build for this 3800 turbo madness. I know that turbo is bulletproof basically coming from diesels and whatnot. Did you do any mods to it to get it improved in flow or anything like that. Here's hoping your new setup will support the turbo better and I appreciate your honesty about issues you have here as NO setup is gonna be perfect but you get perfect by testing and making little improvements like this along the way. I wonder what kind of performance improvements would come from a custom set of exhaust manifolds designed to accept this turbo. Anyways, nice work and do you plan to run this thing again soon with the new tranny down the quarter? Peace
I noticed that my turbo was sagging and actually touching the sway bar last week. I ordered some new header wrap (DEI 010127 2" Titanium Exhaust/ Header Wrap) Awesome stuff. I like it a lot better than the fiberglass stuff I had before.
Saturday I took the manifold off and it was pretty bad. I was planning on just tilting flange back up to where it is supposed to be but I just scrapped it instead and started from scratch on a new one. The bottom was squashed inward. The #2 primary was almost going back towards the engine. The manifold was ballooned out on the bottom instead of being flat. I'm sure this was affecting flow somewhat.
I'll wait for Ryan to say, I told you so...
No need, now...
-Ryan
------------------ OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
I think the shipping label for the turbo said 62 lbs.
Stock manifold on the back. Plog style on the front.
Intercooler piping was from ebay. I think it was this kit http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXR...xp=mtr#ht_3292wt_826 I only needed 3 pieces but it was cheaper to just buy that. My friends have scavenged the rest it seems.
Intake temps are 12*-16* above ambient. The intercooler isn't affected by engine bay temps since there is always water cycling.
Turbo is stock. I didn't do anything to it. ___________________________________________________________________
I drove it around today. It is so much quieter under full boost now. I'm not sure if I like it or not. I think it might sound better, as in, not as much 3800 death noise. It's just so different than what i'm used to. I keep waiting for the wastegate to crack open.
Saturday I took the manifold off and it was pretty bad. I was planning on just tilting flange back up to where it is supposed to be but I just scrapped it instead and started from scratch on a new one. The bottom was squashed inward. The #2 primary was almost going back towards the engine. The manifold was ballooned out on the bottom instead of being flat. I'm sure this was affecting flow somewhat.
Justins car likes to default to 0 degrees of timing often, as he has some sort of knock sensor issue.. which makes EGT's go quite high as you can imagine. The manifold functioned well for a very long time, and seemed to fail all at once after a long day of alot of boost on 0 degrees of timing.
Saying one thing broke because something else was broken and not repaired appropriately doesn't make a good case for anything but fixing known problems as soon as possible.
I think the wrap I had on there was partially to blame also. It used to glow even if I was just cruising around not getting on it. I checked it last night and it was completely dark. This new wrap was defiantly thinner than the "ebay" stuff I had on there before. ...unless the paint isn't letting the light out??
Originally posted by Justinbart: I think the wrap I had on there was partially to blame also. It used to glow even if I was just cruising around not getting on it. I checked it last night and it was completely dark. This new wrap was defiantly thinner than the "ebay" stuff I had on there before. ...unless the paint isn't letting the light out??
I believe heat wrap on a daily driven turbo car is a bad combination altogether. I'm using the stock late model cast iron exhaust manifolds and they took a beating while heat wrapped in just ~5000 miles. Upon removal to install on the replacement motor, I unwrapped them for inspection after noticing tension on some of the manifold bolts. The OE manifolds are made nicely from good metal (GM brags a little about them) and they still flaked quite a bit and warped from the already high temps behind a turbo compounded by heat wrap which caused chronic high temps.
After relieving the stress points I installed them with just the heat shields which were pretty good in the first place. I ran two exhaust temp gauges and there was a ~ 200 deg difference between the pre and post turbo exhaust temps with the sensors about 16" apart. In closedloop the sensor in the manifold ran around 8-900 deg in town and about 1000 deg on the hwy +/- 100 and ofcourse boost took those temps up to around 1300 deg regularly where it was limited by water injection. Trapping that kind of heat in the manifold just took its toll in a short time. It's probably much worse on tubular manifolds.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 07-13-2012).]
Haha.
Mine was 18lbs
