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low dollar 3800 turbo project by darkhorizon
Started on: 09-17-2009 09:43 PM
Replies: 507 (39054 views)
Last post by: Will on 07-01-2019 08:40 AM
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Report this Post08-15-2012 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaSend a Private Message to FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Where are you guys finding the turbos this cheap, everywhere I look wants $400 used to $2000 new?
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Report this Post08-16-2012 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula:

Where are you guys finding the turbos this cheap, everywhere I look wants $400 used to $2000 new?



They aren't cheap anymore. When I got mine it had just been recalled and they were getting dumped on ebay as cores.


And here is an update on my car...

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

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Report this Post08-16-2012 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL... milkshake.

Nice analogy.
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Report this Post08-16-2012 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bummer...

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 08-16-2012).]

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Report this Post08-16-2012 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This week is a big cruise week with Back to the bricks and the Woodward dream cruise. I took it out tuesday night, everything seemed fine. Yesterday I cleaned up my engine a bit and wiped everything down. Checked my coolant and noticed it was low. Checked my oil and it was milky . Pulled the heads and the gasket was bad at the #5 cylinder. Pretty bum'd about this but hopefully I can get it back out tomorrow night.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 08-16-2012).]

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Report this Post08-17-2012 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lift/flex the head you think?
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Report this Post08-17-2012 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

Lift/flex the head you think?


That's what i'm thinking. I probably stretched the bolts. It never overheated and it still ran fine. The head is getting milled right now and I have head studs on the way. Scott wants to back the timing down a degree or two and raise the boost.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post08-17-2012 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Boost was usually my answer too. While I use knock sensors, they're not 'active' in the sense that they pull timing, so I run low 16ish timing and ran up to 25+ on boost. Beat the hell out of my 1 block for years like this though.
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Report this Post08-17-2012 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The pistons, cylinders, heads, spark plugs are so clean I could eat off them. E85 is some clean fuel.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post08-17-2012 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AkursedXSend a Private Message to AkursedXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Switch to ARP head studs while you're in there??
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Report this Post08-17-2012 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AkursedX:

Switch to ARP head studs while you're in there??


Yes, that's what i'm waiting on from zzp. For some reason USPS made a stop in Detroit on the way to Flint or else I would be out on woodward tonight.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post08-20-2012 12:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Back on the road. Looks like I caught it in time before the rod knock started. That's a relief

I'm a day late on getting it done. It's too bad that the parts took a detour on the way to my house .It may have saved me a ticket and some rubber on the tires though.
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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 08-20-2012).]

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Report this Post08-20-2012 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad to hear everything is ok. I gotta ask though, do you have any issues finding a gas station with E85? I haven't seen many around here, but I honestly haven't looked very hard.
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Report this Post08-20-2012 06:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations.html

They are all over. I try to be mindful on where i'm going and top off if I think I might get close to empty.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post08-20-2012 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Closest station with E85 is 14 miles from my house. :/
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Report this Post08-20-2012 07:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well that sucks. You could always get like 5 gas cans and leave a stash at your house, or buy a drum. You can still make plenty of power with premium gas but once you go E85 you won't go back.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post08-20-2012 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Closest station with E85 is 14 miles from my house. :/


And that's 10% of your range on E85...
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Report this Post08-20-2012 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


And that's 10% of your range on E85...


Yea exactly!! Haha.
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Report this Post10-28-2012 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/090492.html

 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

Well that didn't murder my times or trap 130+....


Took a little time...


My fuel gauge started to act erratic for a few weeks and now its just pegged to the full side. Probably the E85 screwing with the sender.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

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Report this Post10-28-2012 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/090492.html


Took a little time...


My fuel gauge started to act erratic for a few weeks and now its just pegged to the full side. Probably the E85 screwing with the sender.



Congrats! what's next?

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Report this Post10-28-2012 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:
My fuel gauge started to act erratic for a few weeks and now its just pegged to the full side. Probably the E85 screwing with the sender.



Or it's just the typical crappy GM sending unit. Mine doesn't work, and the 11 years newer sending unit in my Riviera doesn't quite work either.
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Report this Post12-14-2012 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Took advantage of the ZZP black Friday sale. Picked up a Stattama ST5 cam, modded Ti-retainers, Rollmaster double chain set, valve seals. Sold off my 1.9 rockers, 60 lb injectors and got some 80lb injectors. I wasn't going to install everything until spring but I sold off my parts faster than I expected.

It looks like It was a good thing I didn't wait any longer. The 130# springs really took a toll on my tensioner. I found pieces in my oil when I did a change after the cam install. I'm not sure why the LS1 retainer cracked. They were used when I got them so who knows what they have been through.


Right now i'm on 16 lbs and i'm flowing more air than when I was at 21. The power curve is way different. I can't believe how much it picks up past 5k rpm. ...or i'm just used to it falling off with the stock cam. At first the cam was not as street-able as I had hoped. It would surge or stumble while cruising and dip pretty far down after I let off. Scott spent some time tuning it and it is much better now. Almost the same as before I put the cam in. I really like the lumpy idle. The exhaust note is much deeper. I guess there is quite a bit of room left in my injectors so It should get crazy when I turn the boost up. It's pointless right now with 30* temps. Spring should be fun

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

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Report this Post12-15-2012 12:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
DOH! re-read your post, disregard....

do you plan to dyno the car anytime soon?

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[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 12-15-2012).]

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Report this Post12-15-2012 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

do you plan to dyno the car anytime soon?


Probably not. Too much money for a number that doesn't really mean anything. A before and after would have been neat but it's too late now.

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 12-15-2012).]

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Report this Post12-15-2012 12:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
10-4, well bring the car down here to Florida and make a couple of passes, we want to hear results!

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Report this Post03-10-2013 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think either my clutch or F23 transmission is about to go, possibly both. It is making a lot of weird noises. I can't really isolate either component to make noise so i'm thinking both. I still took people for rides after all the noises. I might pull it apart today or sometime this week if I get motivated.

Ok. Figured out how to rip a video from facebook and put it on youtube.


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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 03-30-2013).]

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Report this Post03-10-2013 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Video didn't work. I found a worn shift fork pad on mine during the teardown. I assume that could make some noise, re up the video.
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Report this Post03-10-2013 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ah, it might not work since it's on someone else s facebook page. It just a short clip to ~95mph nothing to do with the noise or anything. I was trying to get it to scatter and it still held up.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post03-10-2013 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well if you take it apart, check/replace the flywheel bolts while you're there, make sure they didn't loosen.
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Report this Post03-21-2013 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pulled the trans off yesterday.
This little guy fell out when I removed the clutch disk. I think this was part of the noise I was hearing. I still suspect something wrong with the transmission. It has been making a faint harmonic sound since late summer and seems to have gotten louder lately. It makes it in every gear if its under load. It will go silent under no load and then make noise again when engine braking. If its in neutral it's silent. With the windows down I don't hear it. With them up it drones. It reminds me of a bad wheel bearing sound. Still shifts great. Any ideas? I'm going to pull the transmission apart tomorrow. Hopefully its obvious when I open it up. Then I'll decide if I want to fix it or just chunk it for another.




I think the clutch has been like this for while. lol





The clutch disk doesn't appear to have worn much. As for the flywheel and pressure plate.... I need to get a feeler gauge in there.



Flywheel


No leaks!


I just ordered another Spec stage 5 but with the super clamp this time.
------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 03-21-2013).]

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Report this Post03-21-2013 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The noise was most likely the clutch disc and the loose flywheel. I bet the Trans is fine. What you described sounded like mine when the flywheel loosened.

Another broken spec clutch....

Edit: you shouldnt have clearance issues with that superclamp, mine fit no prob

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 03-21-2013).]

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Report this Post03-21-2013 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alright. If I don't see anything obvious when I split the trans i'll let it ride. I ordered those ARP flywheel bolts when I suggested them to you a few months ago. So thankfully I have those on hand. They took a few weeks to get here.

These came in the mail today! New front tires Hopefully these will let me turn and stop better than the old dry rotted azenis.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post03-22-2013 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I read on this forum a way to extract bolts. So I did this and took some pictures if anyone else was wondering. It was so simple and came right out!.







Three of the bolts looked bent and you can see there was some sheer force on the side of the bolt from the flywheel. There was marks on each side of the bolt.



Is it normal to have indentations from the bolt heads on the flywheel?


I'm feeling pretty confidant about that noise coming from the flywheel and clutch. Also too lazy to pull the trans apart, at least for today unless someone can convince me otherwise.

I measured .022" for the flyweel wear and .035" for the pressure plate. The pressure plate mostly tapers down towards the outside. Yeah, this clutch is a little harsh.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post03-22-2013 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice technique with the washer and the nut to remove broken bolts and studs!
I often use a nut welded what's left of the stud - but the washer is a good touch for protecting the surrounding area!
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Report this Post03-22-2013 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EnglishrafeSend a Private Message to EnglishrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Englishrafe

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P.S. Looked like you were only using grade 8 bolts! Not surprised they broke for a flywheel use!!

[This message has been edited by Englishrafe (edited 03-22-2013).]

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Report this Post03-22-2013 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Englishrafe:

P.S. Looked like you were only using grade 8 bolts! Not surprised they broke for a flywheel use!!



Agreed, looks like 'tight tolerance' grade 8 bolts. He has 'better' ones now, so no big deal. Also, might want to replace that rear main seal. I don't know that i'd trust it to not leak and ruin your new clutch disc after having the weld next to it.

Also, My flywheel looked like that too.. Not that it was a good thing.



Edit, I was thinking marks from 'threads', but you said heads. Those marks are to be expected from not using flat washers. Looks like yours may be caused by the lock washer digging in.

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 03-22-2013).]

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Report this Post03-23-2013 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

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Report this Post04-02-2013 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Clutch arrived today and I got it back together. If feels really good. Unfortunately the transmission is still making the whirling sound. I might just drive it for awhile and see if it gets any louder.






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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
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Report this Post04-02-2013 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NoMoreRicersSend a Private Message to NoMoreRicersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Closest station with E85 is 14 miles from my house. :/


Don't feel bad. I just checked on there and the closest one to me is 84.6 miles.
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Report this Post04-02-2013 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are those 8mm bolts or 10mm bolts?

If they're 8's, what's the part number?

Thanks!
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