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From Fiero to umbrella by Fog
Started on: 11-07-2009 10:16 AM
Replies: 88 (8495 views)
Last post by: bigblockfieropacecar on 01-25-2016 12:13 PM
Fog
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Report this Post11-07-2009 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As the racing people say, car is just an umbrella to an engine, so...

I have started to build a drag Fiero, but must warn readers, it will be a very slow build.

Some pictures from the past few months:















The box is TH425 out of a Eldorado, engine block is '86-'87 Grand National "109" strongest factory block.
I have the infamous half-shaft interference issue, but Right now, I'm in progress to make a 50mm(1.97") spacer between engine and box, then the shaft is below the main bearing and fits. Right now it hits the rod cap bolt.

Goal of the project is simple, single digit quarter mile times...

------------------
EX: ('86 2.8 V6)
Current: '85 3.8Ti V6
New: '84 waiting for Grand National heart and Eldorado/Toronado soul

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Report this Post11-07-2009 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Excellent! Don't worry about slow progress... it just builds suspense.
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Fog
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Report this Post12-12-2009 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Engine mounts are done, also spacer is half done.
Suspension is also converted to large 33-spline bearings, etc...

Just mocking things up. If I get all the big things mocked up some time in the future, then another teardown, rust removal etc before rebuild.

First time in the car:


Minivan suspension:
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Fog
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Report this Post12-23-2009 03:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little update.

Adapter half-done


Mock-up engine in place


Header clearance


Adapter in place


Stub axle clearance and placement. Right under main bearing now.


Crank spacer


Rear end weight in this condition is 930lb
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Report this Post12-23-2009 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
nice start of a wheelie machine. looking real good!

------------------
First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987 | My Fiero Fuel Economy | MPG Display for OBD I
Youtube Videos of My GT | modernize your fiero with technology!
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem
Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones
screw paying those bastards. im not going to become rich by paying for things.....

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Report this Post07-02-2010 02:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Half a year passed and:

Wheel fit before... Those are 325 wide ET Streets


Moving the strut mounts 2-1/4" inward. Also, I cutted 1-7/8" out of control arms. That gave me 2" of wheel sidewall clearance inward...


Roll cage.



Self made transbrake


Lexan



And a trailer for carrying the umbrella to events...


Rear end weight according to spring drops is ~600lb as it sits right now with seat, cradle etc...
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Report this Post07-02-2010 06:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jsketchamSend a Private Message to jsketchamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks fantastic so far, forgive my newbiness but what exactly does a transmission brake do? Keep the pictures coming.
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Report this Post07-02-2010 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rudytjSend a Private Message to rudytjEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
another newb question...explain minivan suspension
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Fog
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Report this Post07-02-2010 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jsketcham:

Looks fantastic so far, forgive my newbiness but what exactly does a transmission brake do? Keep the pictures coming.


Transbrake is situation, when reverse and 1st are engaged together. So I can put pedal to the metal and spool the beast up without moving an inch. If I release the T-brake reverse is de-engaged and car blasts off in 1st.
There are several ways how to do that but 0 products for TH425, so I made my own. I modifyied the manual valve so, that when lever is in Low actually Low and Reverse both are engaged. When green light is lit, I move the lever to Drive and blast off.

 
quote
Originally posted by rudytj:

another newb question...explain minivan suspension


Eldorado/Toronado witch the trans came from used 33-spline wheel bearings and a pair of fat(1+") CV axles. I did not want to change the CV-axles to inferior Fiero ones. Rather I looked at ways to use the fat axles...
1993-1995 Pontiac trans sport/Chevrolet lumina APV/Oldsmobile shilouette with 3800 engines used wheel bearings that had the same 33-spline receiver. Now, Using only the bearings inside a Fiero spindle would require milling, but instead, I used the whole spindle.
That had another problem. The Fiero ball joint was too small, so I measured the whole lower control arms, and they Fitted.

So all I wanted was 33 spline wheel bearings, but to have that without milling, I changed out lower control arm, outer tie rod end and spindle.

Bonus is, that I gained big vented rotors with 52mm calipers for brakes also. Also, minivan bolt circle is 5x115 witch is close enough to use Ford wheels(5x4.5" = 5x114.7).
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Report this Post07-02-2010 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HausFieroSend a Private Message to HausFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sweet build, u really stripped the hell outta it

once ur done I'd love to see u and fierox go head to head, tho his car is still street legal (by the looks of it, guessin urs won't be lol)
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Report this Post07-02-2010 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by HausFiero:

Sweet build, u really stripped the hell outta it

once ur done I'd love to see u and fierox go head to head, tho his car is still street legal (by the looks of it, guessin urs won't be lol)


One of us would have to swap continents then
But yes, it will not be street legal, so whatever it runs, it cant be compared to FieroX. He has done an excellent job with a street-legal Fiero.
The cage is good for 8.5 safety index. Class ruled minimum weight will be 2250lb and engine will be 272ci Buick V6 Stage 2 off-center.
I'm not gonna toss out any numbers before I have actually run them, 'cause there is bad economy on this part of the world also, and the car will get ready when it will I'm sure hoping for next year, but that's just me and my hopeless optimism.
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Report this Post07-02-2010 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HausFieroSend a Private Message to HausFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ahh I didn't even realize ur in Europe. It would still be fun to watch

Any predictions on numbers? Hp, tq, 1/4 mi, etc.
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Report this Post07-03-2010 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Made a final payment for the engine as well.
It WILL NOT be that pretty when it arrives. It will be less accessories, less turbo, crack in #1 cyl and in need of a full rebuild... But it looked that good a year ago



List:
Block: 4.5L 274 ci Stage II Off-Center Block
Compression ratio: 8.0:1
Heads: Champion GN1R Aluminum Heads/Valve Covers Latest Castings, 2.02 Intake, 1.60 Exhaust Valves
Cam: Solid Roller
Rocker arms: T&D 1.65 Roller Rockers
Flywheel JW SFI w/BHJ SFI Balancer
Oil Pan: Deep Wet Sump
Pistons: JE Forged Pistons
Rings: JE Rings
Crankshaft: 3.625 BMS Forged
Rods: Oliver 6.5 Rods
Fuel injectors: 160 lb/hr
Headers: Custom Made 1.625” Primary Stainless Headers
Intake: BGC Intake and Spacer



Also, calculated weigth in another thread and came up with 2350lb with all bells and whistles including myself. So I need to lose another 100# somewhere...
The cage is good for 8.5s safety index, so the goal is 725 at the wheels. We'll see if and how that's possible.
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Report this Post07-05-2010 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ghost187xSend a Private Message to ghost187xEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
pm sent
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Report this Post07-13-2010 11:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The thing called a "spool" is half-way done...






And the engine arrived... Crank is already in milling and so on...







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Report this Post08-05-2010 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cant get away from the 3.8 when it comes to drag racing a fiero I see!

Those 700whp numbers shouldnt be that far away, just be ready to invest in some nice race gas. Decide on a turbo yet?
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Report this Post08-05-2010 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Cant get away from the 3.8 when it comes to drag racing a fiero I see!

Those 700whp numbers shouldnt be that far away, just be ready to invest in some nice race gas. Decide on a turbo yet?


Depends, one PT88 is on the sight, but if that deal falls off, then HX60 with 80mm wheel.

Right now, Im tied up with 2 1500hp th400 tranny rebuilds and one on-center buick v6(1200hp) that needs a rebuild asap. (need to pay for my engine with labour).

The latter drinks ethanol, and I'm also planning towards E85 or E100
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Report this Post08-05-2010 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fog:


Depends, one PT88 is on the sight, but if that deal falls off, then HX60 with 80mm wheel.

Right now, Im tied up with 2 1500hp th400 tranny rebuilds and one on-center buick v6(1200hp) that needs a rebuild asap. (need to pay for my engine with labour).

The latter drinks ethanol, and I'm also planning towards E85 or E100


you have the injector for E85/100 so have at it. Mine is going off the race gas here soon for E85 when I can get the fuel pumps sorted back out and bigger injectors(not really in that order).

I would be a bit weary of going with turbos as big as you are looking at. I am running a HX55ish (PT67) with a 67mm wheel turbo right now (with a small exhaust) and it has plenty of space in the 620-650whp area, yet it stills spools well enough.

If you dont mind a suggestion, heres my thoughts on turbos for these little buick v6's.

A PT74 would be more than enough turbo for 750whp, and you will retain weight advantages and keep some spool around. Guy I race with has a borgwarner S400 turbo with a 74mm blade on it making 730whp on low boost and a rough tune. He makes TONS of boost at the line and isnt quite able to exploit it like you may be able to... so smaller the better! He and I both expect almost 800 out of it when he is done maxing it out.

The holset line of turbos in a car that is already looking to drop weight would most likely be a rough battle. My smaller holset I used to run was just light enough to not upset things, but it was still about double what a comparable garrett brand turbo would have been. The "reliability" factor of the holset goes out the window when you plan on putting less than 10k miles a year on them too. I am always in fear of overheating my PT67.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 08-05-2010).]

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Report this Post09-15-2010 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not much done past few months.
Crank is ground to 20/20, block is getting a sleeve and I'm trying to fit 13" sidewall wheels...
Well, the biggest I could fit would be 26/10-15 so widening the rear was in order.

bent and original:


How it is done: only outer skin is cut and bent, inner fiberglass frame stays in place.


And the main building material, PU foam:


Those wheels now tucked into the wheel well are 325-50R15 ET Street Radial-s that have 13.1" sidewall and 11.6" thread.
On the same scale is 28-10.5W and 28-11.5 ET Drag-s

Also, some other stuff has been held for me. The PT88 and BigStuff3 ecu. Right now I'm calculating the pro-s and con-s of hard filling the block.

Inside, seat and harness has found it's places:


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Report this Post10-03-2010 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ghost187xSend a Private Message to ghost187xEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump
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Report this Post10-04-2010 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow! looks sweet!
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bump
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Report this Post01-02-2011 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Celthora87GTSend a Private Message to Celthora87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I LIKE IT!! cant wait to see it finishted

------------------
1987 Black GT with BIG plans

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Report this Post01-02-2011 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kwagnerClick Here to visit kwagner's HomePageSend a Private Message to kwagnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for bumping this, I missed it the first time around.
This is exactly what I was about to look for. Saves me the time. Curious how well this setup works in practice, and if he ever got it done.
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Report this Post01-04-2011 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fog:

Engine mounts are done, also spacer is half done.
Suspension is also converted to large 33-spline bearings, etc...

Just mocking things up. If I get all the big things mocked up some time in the future, then another teardown, rust removal etc before rebuild.

Minivan suspension:



What Calipers are you going to use? Also, what mod need to be done to get them to fit? Is there a parking brake?

[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 01-04-2011).]

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Report this Post01-04-2011 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

nosrac

3520 posts
Member since Jan 2005
 
quote
Originally posted by Fog:


Eldorado/Toronado witch the trans came from used 33-spline wheel bearings and a pair of fat(1+") CV axles. I did not want to change the CV-axles to inferior Fiero ones. Rather I looked at ways to use the fat axles...
1993-1995 Pontiac trans sport/Chevrolet lumina APV/Oldsmobile shilouette with 3800 engines used wheel bearings that had the same 33-spline receiver. Now, Using only the bearings inside a Fiero spindle would require milling, but instead, I used the whole spindle.
That had another problem. The Fiero ball joint was too small, so I measured the whole lower control arms, and they Fitted.

So all I wanted was 33 spline wheel bearings, but to have that without milling, I changed out lower control arm, outer tie rod end and spindle.

Bonus is, that I gained big vented rotors with 52mm calipers for brakes also. Also, minivan bolt circle is 5x115 witch is close enough to use Ford wheels(5x4.5" = 5x114.7).


Does this Mod work on the Front wheels too?

If I knew then what I know now?
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Report this Post02-09-2011 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ghost187xSend a Private Message to ghost187xEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump
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Report this Post02-09-2011 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fog:

Made a final payment for the engine as well.
It WILL NOT be that pretty when it arrives. It will be less accessories, less turbo, crack in #1 cyl and in need of a full rebuild... But it looked that good a year ago

http://mb3.live.hot.ee/rps/D/1079197.JPG

List:
Block: 4.5L 274 ci Stage II Off-Center Block
Compression ratio: 8.0:1
Heads: Champion GN1R Aluminum Heads/Valve Covers Latest Castings, 2.02 Intake, 1.60 Exhaust Valves
Cam: Solid Roller
Rocker arms: T&D 1.65 Roller Rockers
Flywheel JW SFI w/BHJ SFI Balancer
Oil Pan: Deep Wet Sump
Pistons: JE Forged Pistons
Rings: JE Rings
Crankshaft: 3.625 BMS Forged
Rods: Oliver 6.5 Rods
Fuel injectors: 160 lb/hr
Headers: Custom Made 1.625” Primary Stainless Headers
Intake: BGC Intake and Spacer



Don't forget: http://www.taperformance.co...il.asp?prod=TA_V3800
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Report this Post02-22-2011 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Long time no update here, let the pictures speak for themselves...

Front:


Window frames:


Fuel pumps:


Rear panel:


Inside:


ECU:


Engine:


Right now, the car is at speed shop since I cant weld well, the headers are made there along with new coolant tubes.
Also, I drove in the car for the first time when we towed it from speed shop storage to fabrication, and it was scary
The spool limits the steering by 90% at least. Also, the front is too high, Rodney's drop ball joints have arrived to fix that.

Fortunately, there is still a couple of months to go until first test&tune day...
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Report this Post03-16-2011 05:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little more progress.

Headers, turbo and downpipe is done.


Additional injectors for chargecooling.


And paint, or actually, it is sticker.




And a little video, with a lot of blablabla is Estonian, but basically the point is that speedshop owner talks what he did on the car. Cooling system and headers, downpipe and wastegate. In the end there is his 300zx block hard filling topic.


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Report this Post04-05-2011 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's ALIVE!

Modified the ecm file for E100 by adding 70% fuel over C16 and today it finaly started up!

The motivation kicked in big time.
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Report this Post04-05-2011 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ghost187xSend a Private Message to ghost187xEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
video?
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Report this Post04-05-2011 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ghost187x:

video?


Nope, not yet. I only had time to go to the garage on lunchtime, uploaded new file and pushed the button. It started and ran for a minute, then I had to go back to work.
Planning on testing and tuning on the weekend. Then I'll take the camera with me.
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Report this Post04-09-2011 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As promished, video
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Report this Post04-09-2011 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sooo, will this thing run 9's?

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Report this Post04-09-2011 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Vroom,vroom!

Can't wait to see this thing fully tuned and driven in anger. Also curious what the weight and weight balance is now.
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Report this Post04-09-2011 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
? is the front of the engine facing the back and the bell housing against the fire wall if so what did you do to reverse the rotation did you flip the diff so you dont have 3 gears of reverse and 1 forward

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 04-09-2011).]

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Report this Post04-10-2011 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FogSend a Private Message to FogEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
nosrac: I hope it will not run 9-s, I'm hoping 8-s

fieroguru: weight is about 2250lb, balance is about 60-65% to the rear.

engine man: look at the pic's on the thread, The diff is flipped. I opted this solution to have the diff gears work the right way. I could also swap the sides of the sprag.

Anyhow, brought the car home today. A lot of small issues to solve.
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engine man
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Report this Post04-10-2011 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
cool cant wait to see video of it at the drag strip
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