I realize you're choked, but it'll be kind of disappointing if you (or at least someone) can't explain how a stolen car can be picked up by a previous owner and then registered again in their name.
Aren't there records kept of cars/VINs in the States for insurance/ownership purposes?
Wow is this ever going to be a twist into the story - and I cant believe that I didn't see it after even posting in this thread. I've been asked by the title holding owner to make this post as they are not on here much but want the group as a whole to know their side of the story. Being that I have a personal involvement, I said I would make my best attempt. Lets see if I can get some clarity on the matter -
Back in December of 2008 while cruising through Craigslist I happened to come across a Fiero GT for sale. Knowing that just days prior I had a buddy who you've so lovingly referred to as the "dick-head auto-engineering student" was in need of a car, I contacted the seller and spoke with 'em on a couple three of occasions about the sale of the car stating that I knew someone who was very interested. We spoke about it, and they stated that they were going to be deploying to the Middle East and didn't want the car to sit while they were gone which was totally understandable.
He and the seller ( presumably you ) finally hooked up, he checked out the car while his father was there and agreed that he ( the son ) would purchase the car. Agreed selling price was set at $500.00. Now, not wanting to think that this would / could be the wrong Sam Rogers, I checked your PFF ID, and this is what I found:
According to the title issued by the state of Washington, the licensed owner of the vehicle is also which by presumably your signature showing the release of said vehicle on the 20th of December 2008 can be seen below, albiet a crappy cellphone pic. There was also a bill of sale, of which is being currently located.
The car was driven for a while after the sale, and then due to a number of issues as described by Archie, it was parked and never registered in the new owners name. Piss poor move on the buyers move absolutely. I think that there's somewhere in there the states going to get a fine for not registering the vehicle. Hell, he's even got the single aftermarket rim / tire that is currently missing on the car, as its MY donut on the front end as he needed it being that there were nails in the front tire - the reason that its been pulled off.
Sometime in late July / Early August 2009 the car was reported stolen to the King County Police Department and a stolen vehicle report was filed. This was the second time that the vehicle had been stolen, as earlier in the year it had been picked up and pulled from a tow yard for being taken on a joy ride to which it was released back to the buyer. This little car's been though the ringer for sure.
What I dont get, is how you know so much about the person who stole your car without them being questioned by the police department. You state:
quote
Originally posted by CommanderKeen: ... The Vehicle was the only thing recovered, it was abandoned about an hours drive from where I live. It had stolen or borrowed plates from another fiero on it. Some dick-head auto-engineering student had some of his stuff in the car, and claimed he bought the vehicle from someone and forgot to register it. Or whatever. ...
What I find ironic is that in the images that Archie posted here in the very beginning of this thread are infact from another Fiero as seen here which was actually owned by the same guy that purchased the white GT:
On his other Fiero:
The kicker is, that this Fiero no longer EXISTS. I assisted the guy that purchased the White GT which is now at Archie's actually CUT UP AND DISPOSE of this little red Fiero. The plates were placed into the back of the White GT as he didn't want them getting sent off with the rest of the carcass that was going to end up at the recyclers.
To this point, there has been ZERO contact with the King County Sheriffs Department about this car after the stolen vehicle report was filed. I find it very hard to believe that they would tell you that they knew it was some student who said he bought it and then forgot to register it without taking some course of action. According to a friend of mine who is a King County Sheriff, this is infact a priority for them as its something that they are working diligently to get under control. Its a county wide issue that really has gotten out of hand. He stated that if they had an idea of who had stolen the car / person of interest, it would have been followed up and investigated for the pursuit of charges. All of which has not happened.
In the non-Build thread, you stated:
quote
Originally posted by CommanderKeen:
So! Been in Afghanistan for the last year. I thank God every day for coming home and I thank my fallen brothers every day for their sacrifices.
So about halfway through the deployment my place got knocked over. Everything of value stolen from my house, and my Fiero MIA. ...
If you place was robbed and your stuff was taken about 1/2 was through your deployment, this would have meant that it would have been +/- Feb of 2010. This was a full 14 months after the sale of the car. If you left about August of 2009, this still leaves +/- 9 months that the car would have been "stolen" per the signed title & Bill of Sale, but you never said anything about it / filed any report? Something does not add up...
I noticed that there are new plates with an expiration date of 08/2011 which would indicate that the registration was updated as of +/- Aug 2010.
To do so would have been easy being that the car had never had the title turned into the state showing the sale back in Dec of 2008 and requesting a replacement plate would have only been a small fee.
My question is how can / could you have not had possession of the car for more than 9 months and then all of a sudden decide that it was stolen along with your other items halfway though your deployment? At the time of the sale you by your own words were not deployed, a signed and released title, bill of sale with what appears to be your signature exist, cell phone logs of my calls to you discussing the potential buyer and a police report from the guy that bought it who reported it as missing have been filed? If this gets into litigation I hope Archie's been paid as that's a lot of work to be done on what appears not to be your car.
[This message has been edited by mcaanda (edited 11-03-2010).]
Hopefully we'll hear from Archie himself, but looking at the picture of his exhaust system, how would you fit the H or X "bridge" between the cats and the mufflers? It would be pretty complicated to do in that limited space.
Besides, the H or X "bridge" ruins the sound. Duals always sound meaner when each bank is completely separate.
Sound is a matter of personal preference. But the balance pipe is guaranteed to improve the engine's output. And I'll take output over sound every time. Besides, the louder a car is, the easier the cops can tell when you put your foot in it. That 550-HP Cadillac CTS-V Supercharged has some really quiet muffs that flow really well. Plus that ZZ4 cam is no Thumpr.
In Texas, if you do not transfer the tittle, your technically NOT the owner of the vehicle l on record. The previous owner can file a form to exempt them from further liability of the vehicle in case the new owner does not transfer title.
This is why they fine us if we take more then 30 days to transfer title. Having the signed over title and a bill of sale keeps you from getting a ticket if pulled over, for 30 days.
But if the title is not transfered at the DMV and taxes not paid puts it in limbo.
This can cause a lot of headaches as your going to find out.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
The short version is the XoticGT guy bought Keen's car a couple years ago, did some mods to it but never got it fixed up right and hadn't titled it in his name yet before the car was stolen. He reported it stolen but never heard back about it (no surprise, really). He admits that he was late in getting it re-titled so he did make a mistake in that respect but he still paid for the car and showed pictures of a signed title and has a copy of a bill of sale somewhere.
When the car popped up "found" some time later, cops contacted Keen, the previous owner, who was still the title-holder according to the state (because XoticGT hadn't transferred it yet) and instead of finding the new owner, Keen took possession of the car and just claimed it had gone missing because it was "stolen" instead of sold to someone else.
At this point Keen had Archie work on the car to fix it up for himself as a welcome-home present of sorts. After Archie started posting pictures of the car a friend notified XoticGT that his stolen car was now in the possession of the previous owner Keen and there was a build thread about it. Then XoticGT posted that the "ghetto rims", tags, and suspension work was done by him while the car was in his possession (the work that Archie refers to as poorly done but strange that a thief would invest time into it at all). Mcaanda then posted with more details about the work he helped XoticGT do to the car while it was in his posession.
Theres a bill of sale and a signed title that says the car isn't Keens anymore so this is going to be interesting. Keen took possession of a car that he knowingly sold to someone else, however the title was never transferred completely so at this point its a sticky situation and probably why XoticGT deleted his posts in the first place.
Edited: For clarity and to add a few details I missed the first go-around. Mcaanda's post probably makes this one moot but meh. I will delete this if I'm asked to though, so read/quote fast
[This message has been edited by Alibi (edited 11-03-2010).]
ooh... this is interesting... it all depends on how the signed-off title is recognized. By signing it, does it mean that Keen doesn't own it anymore, even though it wasn't retitled? Good question for the DMV and maybe a lawyer. A bill of sale will help if this case goes to court.
ooh... this is interesting... it all depends on how the signed-off title is recognized. By signing it, does it mean that Keen doesn't own it anymore, even though it wasn't retitled? Good question for the DMV and maybe a lawyer. A bill of sale will help if this case goes to court.
My thoughts too. I'm not sure whats up, but if I were in their shoes I'd just buy another car, swap all the new Archie stuff to it and give XoticGT the white one back with his old parts back on it. But I'm not a lawyer or the DMV or CommanderKeen or XoticGT so meh.
Alibi, I appreciate the Coles Notes version , but I don't understand why XoticGT felt the need to delete all his posts. (EDIT: He did the same thing Here.) It only serves to make him look kind of suspicious even though it appears it's Keen who's tried to pull a fast one.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-03-2010).]
I don't know why he deleted them either, but I read it last night and thought I'd put down the short version to describe what everyone else is talking about around his deleted posts. Such things annoy me.
... 1st thing a lawyer tells you about these things is to shut up about it.
BINGO
If I were CommanderKeen, I'd do just as someone else already suggested - return the car to the state it was in before taking it to Archie... otherwise the person that presumably bought it from him but never titled it might get a pretty nicley done swapped Fiero for no out of pocket costs.
The kicker is, that this Fiero no longer EXISTS. I assisted the guy that purchased the White GT which is now at Archie's actually CUT UP AND DISPOSE of this little red Fiero. The plates were placed into the back of the White GT as he didn't want them getting sent off with the rest of the carcass that was going to end up at the recyclers.
Yep and we used my truck to haul the scrap away. Why would commanderkeen use these plates from a car that no longer exists?
I couldn't stay quiet about this as CommanderKeen has shown extremely poor character but first taking someone else' car and claiming it was stolen by the ACTUAL owner but then to elicit sympathy CLAIMING his Fiero had been stolen while he was in Afghanistan. I think he'll have a rude awakening involving the law very soon.
wow ya this is a messed up situation. i gotta say i have vehicles that arnt titled to me but i bought (i own alot of guns and an army of girbels so dont think about it lol) so i see XzotikGT's side but then agian it is his fault for not transfering the title to his name. on the other hand Keen cant be held liable because its not his responsibility to contact XzotikGT or try to find the new owner of the vehicle. just think it could have been sold 3 or 4 more times from when keen originally found it. truthfully even tho he has a bill of sale i belive XzotikGT is SOL as far goes as gettin the car back especially now after all the work had been done. now if Keen wanted to go out of his way he could swap all that stuff into a new fiero but by no means do i think that he has to. im super interested to see how this ends up because truthfully if it does goto court this thread will get taken as evidence and the judge will read all of it so if you wanna put something goofy in it to say to the judge like all judges in northern Illinois are awesome and that one speeding ticket i have i would really loved removed from my record! then go for it. oh and im just going on the summary written by some one above because i couldnt catch both sides before XzotikGT deleted his posts.
[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 11-03-2010).]
The thing that hurts Keen's credibility and helps Zxotic is that Keen went to great detail to support a lie. He talked about how his car was stolen while he was deployed in his thread about coming home, yet there is some evidence (with verification from at least two other folks) that he sold it before he was deployed. Keen - in my mind is in deep doo-doo because of his outright lie about how the car was stolen while he was deployed. Now if he came on and said that a car that he sold had been abandoned and he now had possession of it, then that is a different story. He did not do that. Instead he made this elaborate story about the car being stolen. He even convinced the tow company to waive the fee because the car was stolen while he was deployed. That is the ultimate lie, and I personally know of judges that really have a huge distain for anyone that use the uniform to elicit some sort of gain from the public.
quote
Originally posted by Niterrorz:
wow ya this is a messed up situation. i gotta say i have vehicles that arnt titled to me but i bought (i own alot of guns and an army of girbels so dont think about it lol) so i see XzotikGT's side but then agian it is his fault for not transfering the title to his name. on the other hand Keen cant be held liable because its not his responsibility to contact XzotikGT or try to find the new owner of the vehicle. just think it could have been sold 3 or 4 more times from when keen originally found it. truthfully even tho he has a bill of sale i belive XzotikGT is SOL as far goes as gettin the car back especially now after all the work had been done. now if Keen wanted to go out of his way he could swap all that stuff into a new fiero but by no means do i think that he has to. im super interested to see how this ends up because truthfully if it does goto court this thread will get taken as evidence and the judge will read all of it so if you wanna put something goofy in it to say to the judge like all judges in northern Illinois are awesome and that one speeding ticket i have i would really loved removed from my record! then go for it. oh and im just going on the summary written by some one above because i couldnt catch both sides before XzotikGT deleted his posts.
oh i gotcha ya thats a big game turner saying something stolen when its not is a no no. all he really had to do is say i sold it but i dont have the guys info and its stilled titled in my name so ill take possesion. more popcorn time
on the other hand Keen cant be held liable because its not his responsibility to contact XzotikGT or try to find the new owner of the vehicle. just think it could have been sold 3 or 4 more times from when keen originally found it.
Oh, I don't know about that.
Are you suggesting it's somehow legal for Keen to take possession of this car knowing that he sold it and pretending that it's still his?
Or are we now going to hear excuses from Keen about his time in Afghanistan and how he simply "forgot" that he sold it due to something like "battle fatigue"?
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-03-2010).]
I think the person who has the signed title has the legal upper hand. What would keep him from taking it to the DMV and pay the fee's and fines and get it legally transfered in his name. At that point the existing stolen vehicle report becomes particularly useful. He could notify the sheriff department on it last known where abouts. If they find it, they should impound it due to the stolen vehicle report.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
I think the person who has the signed title has the legal upper hand. What would keep him from taking it to the DMV and pay the fee's and fines and get it legally transfered in his name. At that point the existing stolen vehicle report becomes particularly useful. He could notify the sheriff department on it last known where abouts. If they find it, they should impound it due to the stolen vehicle report.
While a signed/dated title is proof the car was sold and should help from a legal standpoint... there is nothing legal or logical about the DMV. If the title was never transferred, the previous owner can go back to the DMV at any time after the sale and file for a lost title. This duplicate title from that point on superceedes the original one in the purchasers hand and makes the original title untransferrable.
I purchased a car that came with an open title and when we went to transfer it, found out the previous owner had junked it 6 months after it was sold...
Keeping titles open is very risky anymore, when you buy a car, put it in your name.
, but I don't understand why XoticGT felt the need to delete all his posts. (EDIT: He did the same thing 
.JPG)
