Just curious... But how the hell did you guys manage to straighten that front end out so nicely? Wow... My busted fender seems like nothing.
Hello without hijacking this nice thread, we started by removing the damaged areas and rewelding sections from a donor car. Sounds easy, but we have been working on conversions and body kits for the Fiero since they came out 26yrs ago. Thanks Norm
Had trouble trying to weigh old,grungy, slighty damp carpet with just a bathroom scale.
If anyone has the exact weight for the interior FLOOR carpet sections (left and right sides) please chime in.
From what I gleaned from this forum, both floor carpets are supposed to weigh 20 pds each.
Needless to say, they arent going back in.
I also removed the bulk head carpet, and insulation. (surrounds computer.)
Plus, I pulled the crusty trunk carpet, trunk light/ light harness.
Heres the main reason I'm apprehensive about moving the battery to the front........
The fuel pump runs with the key off. Since every shop I take the fiero to DOESNT know how to fix this problem, I use a toggle switch to turn the pump on and off.
Over time, you FORGET to turn stuff off when in a rush getting out the car. So, to prevent finding a dead battery, I tarin myself to disconnect the battery everytime the car will not be in use for extended amounts of time. (Hours/days etc.)
With the battery in the front, I get to play with the hood-pin locks everytime instead of just one lock.
[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 11-27-2010).]
When weighing anything, just step on a scale holding whatever it is you are intending to weigh, then just subtract your own weight. That will give you the weight of the odd shaped item that did not fit on the bathroom scale.
Heres a pic of the blower case, accumalator core, and mesh filter.
In retrospect, I SHOULD have weighed, and recorded everything that came off that day. But, at the time, you get caught up in the heat of the moment. The crap was light already, so I blew it off. DOH!
Heres a quick tally of related stuff I did manage to record .......
Stock blower fan (five pounds), HVAC case / little door motors(10 punds) HVAC duck work (five pounds) HVAC skeleton, partial piece(4 1/2 onces) HVAC vents, drvr/pass. (12 onces) HVAC vent, center (6 onces)
Rearview of HVAC.......
Major PITA extracting that badboy! Had to do the happy, happy joy, joy dance after that scenario.
Had trouble trying to weigh old,grungy, slighty damp carpet with just a bathroom scale.
If anyone has the exact weight for the interior FLOOR carpet sections (left and right sides) please chime in.
From what I gleaned from this forum, both floor carpets are supposed to weigh 20 pds each.
Needless to say, they arent going back in.
I also removed the bulk head carpet, and insulation. (surrounds computer.)
Plus, I pulled the crusty trunk carpet, trunk light/ light harness.
Heres the main reason I'm apprehensive about moving the battery to the front........
The fuel pump runs with the key off. Since every shop I take the fiero to DOESNT know how to fix this problem, I use a toggle switch to turn the pump on and off.
Over time, you FORGET to turn stuff off when in a rush getting out the car. So, to prevent finding a dead battery, I tarin myself to disconnect the battery everytime the car will not be in use for extended amounts of time. (Hours/days etc.)
With the battery in the front, I get to play with the hood-pin locks everytime instead of just one lock.
I just shipped two complete sets of carpets without the fiber insulation and it was 28lbs. With the insulation, it would be close to 40 lbs.
Did'nt want to leave the car an empty shell, So.......here comes the moment of silent umbrage.
Putting stuff BACK in the car just to cover up the "guts" of the interior. Plus, said "stuff" has to be lightweight, AND look decent.
Should'nt be that hard, right???
El wrongo, brother.
Heres where I get side tracked like a mofo for a month or so, doing the martha stewart thing creating a lightweight interior.
Proverbial can of worms is an understatement. Oyvay !
Went to the local Joann fabrics on hall road, but decided to see what was in the place next door, first. Serrendipity! 56" (2 yards) of lightweight, lt. grey vinyl for $6.
Garden ridge was getting ready to go out of business, so I snagged some swag. My intended interior colors were to be red, grey vinyl, and grey pinstripe cloth of some sort. The internet yielded some REALLY pricey grey pinstripe that was TOO dark, or just did'nt look right. Joann fabrics had some nice lt. grey/ red pinstripe frabic 56" for $15.
I had a photo of it before, but my cheapo china cam didnt pick it up very well. Also, I think I might have deleted it because it didnt look too photo genic. Will post FULL pics of NEW doors and NEW console very soon regardless.
The test subject is an '86 gt, engine is a 2.8 with 20,000 miles with simple hi-po mods. hogged out TB, bigger injectors, ported heads,r.rockers, headers ...........Blah blah.
Seems to me that you could just have someone do your engine properly.
They don't need bigger injectors - total waste of time and money. Hogged out TB - likewise. Won't do any good as long as it is sucking through the restricted stock upper manifold neck. Ported heads? Who ported them? If they were done professionally, decent results. Done by Joe Blow with a grinder and a vague idea of what he is doing? Retrograde step.
The mix of things you have done make me think that you either bought an engine from someone else, or didn't really have a good grasp of what is needed. Why not the biggest easy bump - use a 3.1 crank and stroke it?
The engine I bought brand new back in '98. Previous motor ran good but was tired, STOCK fan switch did'nt kick in, STOCK temp gauge gave no warning. I liked the car, so I had a shop install a remanufactured engine.
I bought the injectors to replace the factory PINTLE style that was prone to clogging (that was what the fierostore said back then).
Plus, the lucas injectors were a DISK type guaranteed to never clog. Fuel press. was only a couple pounds over stock. Not a big deal, especially since I planned to get the sprint headers too. I did'nt want a LEAN OUT.
By "hogged out throttle body", I exaggerated alittle. A fiero vendor (forgot which one) called it a "big bore"throttlebody. (3 millimeters bigger.wow.) Just a little "ego" stroke to ease my mind over how much I paid for that sucker. Geez.
other than the darryle morse T.B. (five millimeters bigger.) these were the ONLY way to get more air into a STOCK 2.8 v6 that was AFFORDABLE other than ported heads.
(Go read the old, "big fiero" book, most of this stuff was commonly sold.)
People were still selling that crappy holley air scoop back then because it was fundamental, and AFFORDABLE. (Never bought it, made my own from scratch).
Dont forget about all the MSD multi-sparks fiero owners bought that DID'NT make a difference!
As for the upper manifold being resistrictive, I'm quite aware of this debacle. The upper, AND middle intake pieces have impaired air flow. The upper has the "squished" down opening after the throttlebody, plus the sharp left turn on the firewall side of the engine. The middle intake piece is "pinched" at the top and opens up at the bottom.
I eventually plan to add a different throttle body, and RADICALLY alter the upper intake.Some porting of the middle intake, and a computer tune will be a given. Unfortunately, this mod HAS been done already. The WAY the throttle body will be mounted is the only deviation.
Also, the factory "Y"-pipe has a restriction as well, not just the upper intakes.
As far as stroking the engine, I'd rather run it as is, sans the restrictions. she starts right up, runs clean, no smoke, no leaks and after setting the timing by way of the coil wire instead of #1 sparkplud wire....... my car FINALLY feels linear. I can squawk my tires at will now!
The weight reduction is icing on the cake, acceleration AND handling are ALOT more effortless.
Besides, the whole point of my cars weight reduction is to go fast for LESS cash.
I'm NOT a professional mechanic, or do I wish to pay one to do this mod when the engine works fine. If, and only if the engine had a failure....... (knock on wood.) THEN I'd get a 3.4 or whatever.
Just to keep all the data in one place, if you find any interesting weight figures, could you post them in the "weight loss" thread? There's been a bunch of data posted there already and I'm sure the stuff you're removing could add to the collective knowledge:
Originally posted by sunofjustice: Dont forget about all the MSD multi-sparks fiero owners bought that DID'NT make a difference!
The MSD/Accel/Mallory/whatever coils/caps/rotors/wires don't give you hp. Nor do I think any of them advertise as so. What they do, however, is to help provide more and cleaner electrical power to the spark plugs. So you can burn higher octane fuels more completely, and such. They are a power enabler, rather than a power adder, themselves.
Just a word about the MSD....you can have idle problems with those MSD boxes. Watch after you install it, I had intermittent idle and stumbling on a stock V6.
Originally posted by RotrexFiero: Just a word about the MSD....you can have idle problems with those MSD boxes. Watch after you install it, I had intermittent idle and stumbling on a stock V6.
Not sure which MSD box you're talking about, but I've had intermittent idle and stumble problems before with stock components on the stock 2.8. So it really could have been anything. But "boxes" is a pretty indescript term, considering MSD makes lots of different types of components.
Armos, will post any relevant data on other thread. Only read some of the first page, but ALOT of what I was thinking about was EASILY validated by this thread. Very good read.
Color me mad...... but I like this type of challenge!!!
(Get the weight OFF,find parts that are lighter, yet AFFORDABLE, and still keep everything looking nice.)
Dobey, in regards to your comments on MSD boxes,
Multiple spark ignition just GUARANTEES a complete burn, and consistant ignition efficency. (Below 3000 rpm any way )
I've used the MSD 6A on three vehicles, ('77 granprix, '79 firebird, '91 astro) it worked OK, but did'nt live up to the hype.
When the Jacobs omni coil, (sucked) and the Accel 300+ multispark (Mediocre perf., but nice compact design) first came out , I installed them on the fiero. Needless to say, was'nt impressed.
Rotrexfiero,
With MSD, the only thing to watch out for is proper maintence (clean cap/rotor periodically) to prevent carbon tracking. Also, with higher ignition millijoiles, you HAVE to buy lower ohm resistant sparkplug wire, and a COPPER infused cap/rotor combo. No dis respect, but maybe you still had stocker ignition components?
Hope I did'nt come off as preachy. Just my 0.02 cents.
The MSD/Accel/Mallory/whatever coils/caps/rotors/wires don't give you hp. Nor do I think any of them advertise as so. What they do, however, is to help provide more and cleaner electrical power to the spark plugs. So you can burn higher octane fuels more completely, and such.....
higher octane fuels will do nothing in a fiero. you need to increase compression or add forced induction (turbo/Supercharger not a "scoop") to get any gain from higher octane fuel.
Higher energy spark is ONLY good for high rpm reliability. that is the only use. so unless you plan on driving at the 5000-10000 RPM ranges, even a 90,000,000 volt spark will do nothing at all for you.
Their biggest advantage is typically higher reliability in high heat. a MSD ignition box and high energy coils used for racing tend to not get the spark fade as under hood temps soar to >250 degrees.
On that note, I'm going to need an ignition boost, even with DIS. There's something about 3 atmospheres of pressure that'll do that I think.
You guys are making me want to strip my Fiero of everything it doesn't need to make it a street-legal racecar. :/ I'm going for relative comfort along with great all around performance, but now that I have the street unfriendly Quarter Master twin-disk to install anyway I'm feeling like I may as well go all out and gut the thing. :/ Not for the power/weight ratio (that's taken care of), but for the handling, braking, and reduced stresses. ~2600-2700 sounds nice (compared to a bit over 3000). Loud, fast, rough and raw. Sounds like fun! I'm sure I'll lose sleep over it. Heh.
SoJ, thanks for the info, and for keeping track of the individual weights.
Definitely do pay attention to the wheels, unsprung weight makes a huge difference as mentioned. I'm not sure how much your 16's weigh, but stock 15's are quite light (15.5 lbs IIRC?), it's a good idea if you have only a minor brake upgrade, and those will work better with a lighter car anyway. If you get '88 fronts then you get an easier steering effort and shave off a tiny bit of weight still. Put 205's on the front and slightly taller 235's on the rear with a set of nice ~sticky performance tires (Yokohama S-drives, Nitto 555's or the like, whatever's the latest and greatest in those sizes) and you'll have a light combo with plenty enough traction for the 2.8 and the lighter car.
When you move the battery, mount it up front as low and rearward as possible with aluminum bar stock for brackets, that gives a better weight balance over mounting it in the normal up-front location (by way of using the various battery trays that will allow a stock spare to fit.) A small battery will fit easily. For reference, here are pics of my battery relocation with a medium sized Optima:
------------------ '88 Fiero GT - Project MIDTRBO 2010 Camaro LT/RS There's no replacement for turbo placement
[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 11-28-2010).]
Very nice pics as well! (I gotta get me a nicer digi cam, I swear.)
Come spring, I'm gonna stop procrastinating and move the battery to the front. Hopefully, I'll have enough spare moolah to get a 15 pound dry cell as well.
Anyone already have a dry cell battery?
If so, please post a shot of it.
One last thought, Its probably not a good idea..... but, I read on a forum somewhere a dude was using a motorcycle battery to run his car!?
Could be possiable, only questions are was the vehicle ran on the STREET?
Or, was it a TRACK car?
Would be ballsy cool if it was'nt just a flight of fancy.
I was disappointed that I could'nt find my pics of the gray, pinstripe clothe used in my interior so I went back here to get current prices, and take some more shots....
Joann's fabrics. I feel my testosterone count drop every second I'm in there. Que mantra.....whilst walking a bit faster. (I'm here to finish my project, I'm here to finish my project....)
Unfortunately, the gray pinstripe was AWOL, WTH???
Decided to look over the color vinyl since I'm here anyway.
Pricey stuff, but top shelf in quality. their vinyl could easily match a latemodel interior.
Only have a couple of scraps left, but heres some pics of the gray pinstripe...
It's pretty light. An 8x13 inch piece weighed 0.04 onces.
I kept just the very top of the door trim, (its made of some freaky, pressed wood shavings and glue, ) If I recall , each piece weighed roughly 7 onces, sans the factory vinyl.
Heres a pic...
This piece was then glued via "automotive GOOP" ($3.99 best quick setting adhesive ever!) to some 2.2 lb (load bearing, not its actual weight) polyethylene foam. I bought a roll of it (108x24x1/4") for $8.26.
This roll is the SECOND one I bought to do some revisions. First roll was good for two doors, my uber light "command central" console, and some 1/4 trim to clean up the gas tank tunnel.
Forgot to weigh the roll before cutting, but heres some stats for those who like number crunching.......
A 12"x12" square of polyethylene foam weighed 0.09 of an once on the digi scale.
I highly recommend purchasing a scale, It helps with recording onces/ pounds taken off. But, be forewarned.......measuring can be a rollercoaster ride!
Regardless, this taylor scale rocks!
It was on sale for $20. at meijers. (Michigans version of walmarts.)
Reads pounds or grams, and has a max 8 POUND limit.
This badboy, compared to the old one, is like upgrading from a model T.......to a ferrari. Pic alert.
During the sunday drive, I stopped by here for a photo op.....
The foam factory is a hobbyist dream. Any kind of foam you can imagine, theres spare scraps all on the floors everywhere, Lets say you fancy a piece of foam you found lying about.... take it to the people at the counter, they'll look it up, ask your preference, give you a quote, then sell it to you if you wish. they'll hook you up.
About 98% of their foam is on shelves though. There up pretty high, and most of the time there are latino folk climbing up and down these three story shelves grabbing foam for orders. Pretty lively establishment.
What was really interesting, is when you wait for your order, you can sit down on their homemade couches. (Some seat cushions are VERY firm, some medium, some are VERY soft.)
Those cushions, plus the free little cubes of memory foam got me thinking about building my own lightweight seats.
Not sure about posting links, but heres their dot com..........................................
You could save a decent amount of weight if you just don't use the battery...you'll have to be able to crank start it though. I know there is some british car from the 70s-80s that still uses a crank start. That would also allow you to remove the starter and alternator. ( replace with magneto )
I'm not sure if the trunk is structural...if it's not just cut that out.
Hockaday, the magneto idea has some merit, but werent those pretty heavy, and VERY large?
Not sure of the weight, but a DISTRIBUTORLESS ignition could shave some pounds (Dizzy shaft,housing, coil/ cap rotor, ign. module.) AND prevent heat soak ignition failures.
I just weighed three containers of bolts, and metal fasteners.
6. 38 POUNDS!
This is not even counting the myriad of bolts that were removed years ago when I ditched the A/C, head light motors and brackets, the cruise control, and trunk fan/ plus tubes.
Just like football is a game of yards, weight reduction is a game of OUNCES.
[This message has been edited by sunofjustice (edited 11-29-2010).]
Get rid of the roof scoops. They're disrupting the air flow. Those two vents are for exhausting hot air from the engine bay, not for taking more air in. All they're doing for you now is disrupting your aerodynamics, and causing you to have a hotter engine bay than you normally would have. Neither of those are good for performance.
+1, and they add weight. You could cut out the louvers from the center of the stock vents and rivet some mesh in their place, that could save a pound or two I'd think.
+1, and they add weight. You could cut out the louvers from the center of the stock vents and rivet some mesh in their place, that could save a pound or two I'd think.
Or make custom vents out of CF or aluminum. The stock ones are pretty heavy.
I don't think magnetos are that large or heavy, i know the old cafe racers didn't have batteries and just used a magneto. Not sure about a car magneto though.
How can bringing COOLER air into a HOT engine compartment be counter productive?
You want engine vents, here you go........
i admit they are quasi crudely done, (and are made of STEEL,which will be replaced) but these vents DO extract some serious heat. Also, the side scoops (when driving) help pump air TOWARDS the vents as well. When the car is running, and not moving, the over roof scoops have a chimney effect thereby releasing any heat in that area as well.
Personally, I like the visual impact of the scoops, as well as the wing. But, BOTH always seem to polarize people someway or the other.
Either you like them, or you hate them.
like i stated earlier, the wing now weighs about 7 pounds after gutting , and lowering it. (Originally, it weighed 10 pds with pedastals) I'ii eventually replace it with a ducktail. The rear just looks naked without something back there.
Or make custom vents out of CF or aluminum. The stock ones are pretty heavy.
The stock vents on the 88's (and possibly other years) are already an aluminum type material and quite light, especially if you remove the leaf guards.
The fuel pump runs with the key off. Since every shop I take the fiero to DOESNT know how to fix this problem, I use a toggle switch to turn the pump on and off.
That's your fuel pump relay that's failed. It's like a $30 dollar part. I don't remember where it's located on the V6 Fiero, but I remember on my old 84 it's located on the firewall directly behind the drivers side (in the engine compartment).
Just replace the relay and that will fix the problem.
Originally posted by sunofjustice: Dobey, Alltrbo,
How can bringing COOLER air into a HOT engine compartment be counter productive?
Because you're attempting to force air into an area where it is designed to come out from. You're essentially forcing air to stay in there. The air coming over top of the car, is also not necessarily cool, given that if you've got a hood vent on the front to extract hot air from the radiator, it's going up and over the car instead of under it. By forcing air into the vents in the rear, you're creating additional turbulence in the engine bay, that wouldn't be there, and generallly messing up the air flow. You're not lowering bay temps with those scoops. Opening up more of the decklid for ventilation might, but the scoops don't; especially at speed. If you want to get more cool air in the bay, open up the side wells in front of the rear wheels (where the intake is on the driver side), and install rear quarter panel 'scoops'. Though it looks like you've already done that bit. So just get rid of the roof scoops. They're ugly and hurting your performance anyway.
Dobey, although some of what you say does ring true, radiator air released from the vent would'nt stay hot. Especially once it hits the base of the windshield were additional airspeed would cool the air even further.
Furthermore, the over roof scoops are spaced longitudely apart.....whereas the aforementioned radiated air would cool off, and flow BETWEEN them.
If I was rocking a single, indy pace car scoop (which are'nt functional, usually) then there MIGHT be some concern.
Also, on a STOCK 86 gt, the sail panel windows seem to be an anti vent scenario. i seem to recall someone doing an airflow test on the back of a notchie. (even though the body configuration is not quite the same)
I may be mistaken, but the airflow test showed alot of dead boundery air in the back window area.
I belive this same phenomenon is to be expected, if not amplified moreso, by the sail panel windows due to them not releasing the hot air via the side vents. Particulary, whilst at speed and in motion, hot air would be trapped somewhat from the airflow coming over the roof line.
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