Dobey, let me also state that my sail panels are an OPEN window configuration.
With open sail panels , and whilst underspeed and in motion, a venturi effect should "pull" any heated, dead boundery air from the decklid.
Furthermore, look closer at one of the engine bay photos recently posted. The LEFT scoop is being used for a ram air/ air filter housing. It is SEALED underneath the scoop, EXCEPT for an opening for the airbox.
Theoretically, air above the belt line of a car is CLEANER, and DENSER.
Also, I may not have the right side scoop sealed yet, but it can be sealed and made to DIRECT air where I see fit. (cheap, LIGHT oilfilter cooler maybe?) I could use this sealed scoop, by adding an aluminum flex hose and DIRECT it UP towards the engine.
Thereby appeasing your withered brow.
Lastly, just blatantly dis respecting someones modification by calling it ugly is just plain rude.
I've seen PLENTY of funky mods on this forum, but I've kept it to myself at least.
Dobey, lets see your car and modificatons, are you cookie cutting, or proto typing?
Originally posted by sunofjustice: Dobey, lets see your car and modificatons, are you cookie cutting, or proto typing?
I'm building an LS4 + 6 speed swap at the moment. Other than that, she's still mostly stock. But I will be doing a lot of other customizations too. That's for my 87 GT, link is in my sig. My 85 GT will be getting an LY7 3.6 DOHC + F40 6 speed later on, after I finish the LS4 in the 87 GT.
Guesstimating very close to 200 pounds OFF already.
Have'nt even removed glass, replaced seats, door beams' or battery yet.
(Not to mention, the full aluminum decklid hook up.)
Hint: Theres some "gold" hiding in some VERY obvious places. Just a matter of theory, time, a bit of money, hard work, and some ingenuity. (The AMERICAN way)
Originally posted by sunofjustice: My weight reduction project is geared towards going FASTER for alot LESS MONEY.
(Not to mention, an apartment with NO access to a garage)
2300 pounds 180 horsepower
equals 13.618 seconds in the 1320. (1/4 mile)
Just curious since you haven't stated any targets for what you mean with FASTER or LESS MONEY. Faster than what? Less money than what? I guess you want a 13 second car. What is your $$$ target to be less than?
For what it's worth, with only the few mods you listed on the first post, you are not making 180hp. Maybe 150hp if you're lucky. You're going to need a lot more than that to get 180hp out of a Fiero 2.8.
Dobey, future plans were to incorporate a dual throttlebody , remove factory y pipe restriction that the custom exhaust shop DID'NT do when exhaust was previously done. (They replaced from the y pipe back, when I really wanted from the headers back.)
Once the hard components are replaced, a custom computer tune is mandatory. Any detected incongruities with the engines performance will be addressed by the chip manufactuer.
When the "butt-dyno" varifies positive, linear progression ....... I'll take the car to get a real dyno evaluation.
This thread is really interesting. I also am interested in reducing the weight of my Fiero. I've taken some steps in that direction, but nothing as "hard-core" as what you're doing. By my calculations, I've pulled about 100 lb out of the car, but still have heat, A/C, carpet, etc.
Here are a few things I noticed, that may help you in your quest:
-- The firewall cover (in the interior) has a sheet of heavy rubberized material glued to the back. That slab of rubber by itself weighs almost 5 lb. I tore it out, and replaced it with a piece of 1/2" thick neoprene foam. The foam only weighs a few ounces, and won't soak up moisture (it's closed-cell foam).
-- The stock carpet, with padding, weighs almost 40 lb total. The stock replacement carpet made by ACC weighs less than 20 lb, with padding. On my Fiero, I laid down a layer of 1/2" thick neoprene foam under the carpet, and still came in at 20 lb total.
-- The stock console assembly (including the plastic skeleton) weighs about 20 lb. The rear console piece, by itself, weighs almost 10 lb. If you can make a fiberglass replica of the console, you could shave off 10-15 lb.
-- The stock headlight assemblies (with bulbs) weigh about 10 lb each. If you could build or buy some fixed headlights, you'll probably save about 10-15 lb.
-- Replacing the stock starter with a gear-reduction starter from a newer car will shave off about 5 lb.
-- Does your Fiero still have the trunk blower thingy? If so, then upgrading to a CS130 alternator and relocating the coil to the firewall will make it superfluous... i.e. you can rip it out. And after relocating the coil, you can remove its heat shields.
-- You can chop about 8-10 lb off the exhaust system by removing the exhaust tips. On my Fiero, I actually chopped the pipes right after they come out of the muffler. So the muffler looks like it has two down-spouts on it.
-- I just recently upgraded from a distributer to DIS. I didn't weigh the parts, but I think DIS is actually a little heavier than the distributer ignition. The DIS brick has 3 coils, whereas the distributer has one. Plus, DIS has the "dummy distributer" that plugs the hole in the engine block.
That's all I can think of for now. If I come up with anything else, I'll let ya know.
The Fiero dash is pretty heavy too. If you're pulling all the amenities anyway, might as well go all out and replace it with a thin sheet of aluminum and basic bracing, with some VDO gauges. Lots of wiring under there that's not necessary without the amenities as well.
According to my bathroom scale, the dash (with ductwork) weighs 13 lb. And the instrument cluster (including trim) weighs almost 10 lb. So yeah, there's some weight to be saved there.
Good call on the wiring, too. For example, your Fiero is probably wired for power windows / locks and rally gauges, even if you don't have them. The wires and electrical plugs will be tucked away under the dash and console.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-30-2010).]
I really appreciate the help and previous knowledge of the dash, and other forementioned nomenclature. (stuff)
Actually, I already ripped up PART of the dash already, and tossed out the ENTIRE radio/speakers/antenna w cable and speaker wire. (going to use an IPOD system)
Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until spring to carve up the stock dash, and actually create my own LIGHTWEIGHT version. The lightweight seats I can still make in the apartment.
Also, I agree that wire has some heft to it as well, (I'll show some pix VERY soon) the A/C harness,and blower fan related wire got chopped off at the bulk head next to the brake master cylinder. (about eight onces)
The original console, computer cover, shifter surround, radio surround, some of the skeleton, the cruise control module and the aux gauge housing have been removed.
Theres more, alot more, to type in. I'm just being lazy I think.
All the items already removed or replaced on the car will be revealed regardless of how trivial they weigh.
(WARNING: alot of this stuff has OUNCES, verrrryy tedious)
I will post ALL my known data to the best of my abilities.
Furthermore, I'll stop beating around the bush, with hints here and there about weight loss ideas. (I'm just used to keeping stuff to my self, I'm not interested in teasing folk unless BOTH parties can benefit.)
Ill post ALL of my theories, and ideas. Maybe this will lead to others contributing something really cool that will HELP us all.
Since the heatercore was out, and it was summer at the time, I thought I'd try a variation on my dual heater core idea. (Just looking for cheaper alternatives to keep fiero cool.)
Please bear in mind everything shown is in a "test and go" state. Not permanent.
Thus said, heres some more carnage for your viewing pleasure.
In juxtaposition, you can really see how a heatercore is VERY similar in construction as well as function to a radiator.
This coolant overflow bottle is from a geo tracker ('91-'92 I think.)
Aluminum fuel line is used to replace heavier rubber hose.
Still need to find LARGER diameter aluminum pipe to replace the STEEL coolant lines. All of the smaller coolant hoses will be replaced with large amounts of aluminum. (Rubber has weight to it as well.)
But, i digress.....
This impromptu heater core set up DOES provide CHEAP, additional cooling.
Its fairly easy to move the H core to the radiator area during the summer. (Dont need heat obviously.)
When it starts getting colder, move the h core back in.
This new twist on engine cooling is a fun project that netted positive results. During a 90 degree day, engine already warmed up..... I let the engine idle for five minutes in the autozone parking lot.
BOTH decklids closed, with just the fan running. Coolant temp never got higher than 180 degrees. Went to the local kroger supermarket a few miles away, let it idle five minutes again. Still 180!
Success!
I will note, coolant system was previously checked for high temp stamina. (Used a little coolant tester with the "floaty balls" in it.)
Tester stated coolant was good for 250 degrees. (could of been higher.)
If curious, I use a cocktail of redline water wetter, royal purple "ice", and peak GLOBAL "lifetime" 50/50 pre diluted coolant/antifreeze.
Like previously mentioned, the copper heater core will be replaced with an aluminum one. Will post weight difference.
Behold! The glorious bounty of the "bolt harvest". (I say this to myself everytime I score a mega bunch of fasteners and screws.)
More pix of my bolt harvest so far......
Bolts ADD UP, heres proof. (6 lbs .38 onces!)
This isnt even all of 'em, most of the bolts got thrown away years ago after removing stock headlights, head light nomenclature, cruise control, trunk fan with funky tubes, A/C compressor ETC.
some important bolts (heavy), I bagged individually to help locate them. IE: engine hoist bracket bolts, bolts that secured the HVAC, the secondary engine torque bracket. Anything that might be deemed usable if needed.
I'm just curious... are you planning on re-installing the front trunk / spare tire pan?
It's an integral part of the body's air flow and dynamics. At pretty much anything over 30 miles an hour, it's used to help the aerodynamics of the car and also is used to help extract (properly) the air passing through the radiator, and directs it under the car which ALSO then gets sucked up through the engine vents (there-by cooling the motor).
Even if you don't want to have anything in there, you should still at the very bolt a thin piece of plastic in there to keep the natural curve of the front trunk area. This WILL affect your quarter mile times because of drag co-efficient. Air will get trapped in there, and it will slow you down far more than you'll gain in weight savings.
This thread is interesting to me however, should I ever decide to build a track car. It would be nice to buy a base model V6 Fiero, strip it and keep only what is required by the race's sanctioning body (like dash, and door panels).
180hp? That means you have to be making about 150 at the wheels and with the mods you've stated I don't think you are hitting 125whp yet. I'll keep and eye because this is a useful thread for me personally.
Been reading this thread since the beginning... Your aero is totally cacked by some of these mods. The scoops, the lack of spare tire well, etc.
You really must evaluate whether the mods will be truly beneficial. At any speeds over city cruise, aero comes into play - get over 80 and it really matters. That's one of the reasons I'm holding back from some body mods: I'm not sure if the style benefit will kill my drag coefficient or if any aero mods (hood vent - design of said extraction scoop) will provide enough benefit to stability and allow enough pressure release to offset the possibly increased drag. Friction is genuinely frustrating sometimes.
The front trunk tub extraction is only TEMPORARY. It's just common sense looking at a gaping hole in the "floor", especially on the front end, that air would flow up into it.
I intend to eventually seal off the front trunk "f loor" opening with 1/16 gauge aluminum. An access door will be left ( bolted down with PLASTIC BOLTS) for easy access to brake lines, and to provide additional light.
In retrospect, a similar shaped, (but smaller) front hood vent near the base of the window WAS considered. But, due to gutting the underside of the front decklid, there is roughly a two inch GAP allowing any air to escape when at speed.
Serendipity.
When driving at night, I can see my blinker lights working under the hood. Pretty cool. (There was a time when those stock front blinkers were always SORT of working, due to corrosion or just loose. Very annoying.)
During removal of the front trunk tub and the HVAC, I thought of structural integrity being compromised if anything. "X-braces" made of aluminum bar stock were also considered.
Upon further observation, No cracks were ever seen in the spare tire tub. an X-brace was therefore deemed unnecessary.
If there was ANY chassis stress in this area, I'm sure engineers would have installed a more substantial material other than the fiberglass.
As previously mentioned, plans for a dual throttle body ARE underway. The factory Y-pipe restriction is still there and waiting to be extracted. A custom computer tune should release even more power. 1.6 FULL roller rockers are on the "back burner", but planned.
I realize there are plenty of people who have "been there, done that". "What ELSE are you gonna do?"
I'm just curious... are you planning on re-installing the front trunk / spare tire pan?
It's an integral part of the body's air flow and dynamics. At pretty much anything over 30 miles an hour, it's used to help the aerodynamics of the car and also is used to help extract (properly) the air passing through the radiator, and directs it under the car which ALSO then gets sucked up through the engine vents (there-by cooling the motor).
Yeah the car feels weird if you drive it over 50 without that installed.
I am aware that an opening in the "floor" of the front trunk area is of significant concern.
As stated in the previous post, a 1/16 gauge aluminum floor will be installed eventually.
I drive the fiero rarely since its in a state of flux right now due to weight reduction sessions, NEW vent louvers, smoothing out and filling "holes" in the rear decklid area. Etc. (Will show pix, even though some are ugly.)
The over roof scoops are staying. They are FUNCTIONAL and can be modded to help direct air specifically WHERE I want it. One of the scoops is currently being used for my aluminum ram air box.
The other scoop will be sealed with only a small opening for an aluminum flex pipe. The end of said aluminum pipe will be directed UP at the engine oil pan/ filter area. Simple.
At least these over roof scoops actually provide fresh air.
The FACTORY indy pace car scoop DID'NT WORK at all! It was pretty much a stylistic, air brake (No offense to you indy guys, just making a point.)
Dont forget that the fieros pop up headlights, when in use, did the SAME thing! WTF
Furthermore, PLENTY of factory cars had scoops that didnt do anything! (The 90's and some current mustangs, 80's iroc, 80's trans am, 64' GTO etc.)
About the engine cooling, I plan to ultimately open up the CENTER louvers, (24 1/2 x 20 1/2) and thereby INCREASE the hot air extraction. Tantamount to driving without a decklid. NO heat retention what so ever.
Que mad scientest laugh.....
BWAH HAHAHAHAHA!!!
In response to any frontal aero dynamic incongruities as a direct result of past weight reduction, ironically I've wanted to place a 69' Z28 front spoiler (where the stock air dam is.) on the front for years.
Never had a real need for it, but now I COULD take advantage of one. Only problem, (other than weight) Is how MUCH downforce would this generate? (Maybe make an aluminum one thats ADJUSTABLE?)
Just wondering; do you have a really narrow screen you type on and hit enter a lot, or do you just try to write all your posts in some form of poetry I haven't figured out yet?
Would have been cheaper/easier to just swap in a 3800 that already makes 220 hp.
I still am not sure what exactly FASTER means to you here. You stated some vague math that you expect it to be a 13.5 second 1/4 mile, but is that THE goal you're shooting for? Or do you want to be faster than that? Slower?
kind of wondering how suicidal you are; your sabotaging alot of the body to save weight
oh, and if all your modifications are found out by the cops; you might not have a car; or worse you could end up in prison or dead due to your own fault; or sued by the family of whom ever you killed
if your going this far for weight savings don't drive it on the street.
ps. i hope when modifing the hood you didn't remove the anti-guillotine stops; not that it'll matter depending upon how much material you removed from the hood
Just for the opposing view of the front bin removal.
I have run my 88 with and without the front bin at speeds over 130 (on tracks) with no appreciable difference in handling or cooling. Mine overheated whether it was installed or not . Of course, I drive it harder than any street Fiero . My overheating issues were related to insufficient system capacity and lack of a good air dam (within an inch of the ground) below the radiator to create the necessary low pressure area behind the radiator. Switching to an aero nose made a big difference as well.
I recently cut out the sheet metal behind the radiator and replaced it with two 1"x 3/4" 1/8" wall steel tubes making the entire front compartment one big area which would probably be considered worse than just removing the bin. At the same time I did install perforated aluminum headlight doors in place of the stock doors to get some air out of there and I also put a few air/lightening holes leading into the forward fender wells.
I consulted with several people with varying experience in aerodynamics and I did several experiments with and without the bin and decided to leave it out a long time ago. Even before I got the rest of the system figured out. Street cars may be more sensitive to it, I don't know.
Chill out, I'm NOT interested in any mishaps whilst driving myself. Like I mentioned BEFORE, and again here.......... the car is on LIMITED driving duty.
I drive to get the car to autozone to prevent annoying my fellow apartment residents when making noise working on the fiero. The other times I drive it are the 1/4 mile to work (to give the car some excersize), to get gas, and sometimes to get it washed.
If you want to talk about UNSAFE, ask pontiac why they installed defective con rods in the '84 fieros.
Ask them WHY the rear is BUMPSTEER prone, ask them why they put FADE prone rotors on all four wheels, and why you're at it.......why the OBVIOUS planned obsolence of a radiator fan that comes on at 220 degrees on a REAR ENGINE car! (I already know the RISKS of driving this car STOCK, DO YOU???)
BTW, dont get me started on these chevy pickups that burst into flames from side impacts. (Riddle me this, batman...)
Main reason for the weight reduction is money. With some work, and creativity I can have a competitive, classic/ custom car that will PASS modern cars other than JUST keep up.
Honestly Brian, don't let anyone tell you how to do your car. I can be a bit of an a$$, and I have strong opinions on life, but remember..... it is your car!
. Of course, I drive it harder than any street Fiero 
