The struts, themselves are the same. Stock springs and the tophats where the strut mounts into the strut tower, are different. I'm running a set of 88 struts on my 87.
Sorry. It's been 7 months since you last posted and we at the club haven't heard from you in about a year, so I didn't know if you were still active. We sure would like to see you and Tinkerbell again.
Wow... I figured my thread was dead forever... finally photobucket has released my photos... think its time I steal them back and find a new hosting site!
------------------ Please forgive my typos, I'm typically posting via cell.
1984 Indy Fiero SE Pace Car Replica #770 "SE" Stormtrooper Edition Rescued, resuscitated and reversibly modified! (I'm so not done yet!) Poly all round & Black Drag DR-34s Frt: 225/45 on 18x8 (47 offset w/ 8-9mm spacer) 1.5 coils cut off 1984 WS6 springs Rear: 265/35 on 18x8.5 (45 offset) Coil-overs w/ 10 inch 300lb springs & 7 inch sleeve
I'm thinking of building coilovers for my Fiero (84-87) and my friend's Fiero (88), and he insisted on dust boots, which led me to doing some internet searches.
It lists two KYB part numbers: KYB SB108 KYB SB104
I think I will buy both of them to play around with the parts. On Rockauto, they ship from the same warehouse as the Excel-G struts, so we won't have to pay shipping to get them.
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Looking at the KYB strut plate, why are there two hole patterns? Is one hole pattern used for 84-87, and the other set of holes for 88?
Yes. The inner set of holes is for the 88, the outer set is for the 84-87.
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: What are the equivalent measurements on an 88 Fiero? I'm trying to duplicate the function of the stock spring perch, but with a coilover spring.
I tried the Allstar ALL64143 sleeves, and they didn't come with any wire ring to lock the sleeve to the shock.
I am mostly interested in locking the sleeve so it doesn't turn on the shock when I try turning the large nut.
I might use solid copper wire shoved into end, not really sure yet.
I ended up shoving 14 AWG solid copper wire into the gap:
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: It lists two KYB part numbers: KYB SB108 KYB SB104
I think I will buy both of them to play around with the parts. On Rockauto, they ship from the same warehouse as the Excel-G struts, so we won't have to pay shipping to get them.
These KYB bellows were no good (OD too large for the spring).
We ended up getting bumpstops+bellows from BC Racing. BR Racing sells bumpstops and bellows separately as spare parts. The nice thing about the BC Racing bellows is that they're meant for aftermarket coilovers, so they're slim enough to fit inside a 2.5" ID spring.
The bumpstops and bellows are sized based on the shock rod diameter they're meant to go on. I measured the KYB strut rod at 0.786" dia, so we ordered the 20 mm nominal parts from BC Racing. The 20 mm parts slid onto the KYB strut rods with some friction. BC Racing PN: DST-BT-20 https://shop.bcracing-na.co...-dust-boot-dst-bt-20 BC Racing PN: BMP-STP-20 https://shop.bcracing-na.co...top-front-bmp-stp-20
BC Racing also offers other diameters, so if you have another shock for which you want to find a compatible bumpstop+bellows, they might have something for you:
Their North America website has become difficult to navigate since a recent update. You either have to enter random car models to find the spare parts, or try replacing the nominal diameter with the diameter you're looking for in the URL.
I had to capture the above screenshot from bcracing.com.au.
Bumpstop:
Bellows:
The bellows is kind of short, but at normal ride height I think it will be long enough to cover most of the shock rod.
For the upper spring perches, here's how I did things.
I took a new strut plate (KYB), I cut out the center section (containing the rubber bushing), I welded the centering sleeve, and I tack-welded the three M8 mounting screws:
The three M8 screws need to be centered within their holes. I wrapped strips of paper around the screws to take up the space.
In retrospect, it may have been easier to simply get some custom plates laser-cut, but I decided to modify the KYB parts instead.
Initially, the 11-gauge 2.5" exhaust pipe wouldn't fit inside the springs. Initial diameter: 2.505" After turning: 2.480" Sleeve length: 3/4"
The centering sleeve is welded with a bead on its inside diameter:
An unmodified strut plate is dropped onto the custom upper spring perch:
I decided to keep these two parts separate as in a stock Fiero. This way, when the rubber bushing wears out, my friend isn't married to me; he can simply buy an off-the-shelf replacement strut plate.
Here is the assembled unit:
We have yet to put these coilovers on his car; that is the next step.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 07-23-2021).]
Awesome! Thanks for doing the research on the dust boots and adding the info in! Now once I get the brake sorted I can add the dust boots to my conversion as well.
For a different Fiero now (mine), I have cut off the spring perch, while leaving the weld bead on the KYB strut.
What threaded sleeve is recommended in this case?
I could still use the Allstar ALL64143 sleeves, but cut them down shorter. However, I don't really like the setscrew on the Allstar adjusting nut since it damages the threaded sleeve.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-13-2021).]
I don't see the spring rubbing issue on my kits but us the 4 3/4" tall sleeves for all applications, so there is much more clearance once the sleeve ends. Part of the issue is the top spring perch is the bottom of the strut tower and it does not remain parallel to the bottom spring perch through the suspension range of motion. On the applications where I flip the strut hat, I install these upper spring perches that remain perpendicular to the strut shaft at all times.
I have used the barrel type springs a few times and they work fine. It was primarily to get the color the customer wanted. I use QA1 high travel for all springs for the application where the customer wants black or grey springs, eibach when they want red, and have a few other options for different colors. The 10" high travel with any of these suppliers will not coil bind. A normal 10" 275 lb/in QA1 spring will. The high travel springs are also lighter which is an added bonus.
Most Level 4 assembled coilovers with 250 lb/in x 12" springs weigh 32 lbs for the pair. Some of the higher springs rates have bumped the weight up to 36 lbs. It has been a while since I did a 10" spring setup, but I think it was in the 30 to 31 lb range.
I can confirm that the Hyperco springs have a slight "barrel" shape.
Most of the coils actually have a constant, but slightly oversized diameter. It's only the end coils which are reduced in diameter to fit the standard 2.5" ID interface.
The ends are closed and ground.
I like these springs, I would recommend. I'll probably buy another pair like these (I think I goofed on my choice of spring rate).
I bought the QA1 CK60007 coilover sleeves. I am not very satisfied with this. Besides sharing what works, it is also good to share what doesn't work, so the same mistakes are not committed by others.
The CK6007 has a constant bore, with a tapered section (for wedging something) at the end:
So far, so good...
The CK6007 requires the use of anti-seize on the threads:
I try to keep my project car clean. Having a bunch of paste on the threaded sleeve will make anything that touches it dirty. Not my cup of tea.
In addition to the jam nut, the main nut has a set screw. The set screw has a soft plastic tip, which prevents marring. I like it.
The QA1 T114W spanner wrenches fit the nuts well.
There a burr in the main nut, at the set screw hole. This prevents the main nut from screwing onto the sleeve. I suppose that a Dremel job to fix this would be pretty quick.
Apparently, QA1 doesn't go/no-go their threads.
Once I try to put the CK6007 sleeve on the shock, the biggest problem is apparent.
The OD of the KYB shock is 2.000" to 2.008", depending on how I measure it.
The ID of the CK6007 sleeve is 2.100"
The sleeve is too loose, and there's not enough common area where the aluminium sleeve can bear on the weld.
A 2.020" ID would be pretty ideal, but the ID of coilover sleeves is typically not specified.
Options: 1. Buy a different coilover sleeve for a 2" nominal shock, hope it's better. 2. Make custom sleeves on the lathe. I would have to match the QA1 thread. 3. Make custom non-adjustable perches on the lathe. No trouble of trying to figure how to keep the sleeve from rotating on the shock. No risk of galled threads. I don't think I really need adjustment. Looks less modified to police taking a peek in my wheelwells.
They do have specs which are indicated on the box:
The bumpstop grips tightly enough to stay up on the shaft. It could be a bit tighter, but I think it's OK. The dome shape on top of the bumpstop nicely nestles into the inverted bowl steel washer that goes against the strut plate.
There is a lip to install a boot (I have no idea which one). Lip diameter is 2.615", so it needs to be ground down (Dremel?) to fit inside a 2.5" ID spring. The rest of the bumpstop measures 2.372", which should fit, especially if the spring is barrel-shaped (such as Hyperco).
The bottom of the bumpstop isn't too large with respect to the top of the KYB strut.
If the KYB strut were much smaller in diameter, then it would press on a smaller portion of the bumpstop. If the contact area is too small, then I think the true bumpstop rate will be less than the advertised rate.
Monroe 63620, which is listed for the Fiero, might be a good solution also. From pictures, the bumpstop doesn't have a lip which would look goofy if used without a boot.
Looks like it might look more slim inside the spring. No rate specification though, or free length.
Not sure if I want to buy this one for evaluation.
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Options: 1. Buy a different coilover sleeve for a 2" nominal shock, hope it's better. 2. Make custom sleeves on the lathe. I would have to match the QA1 thread. 3. Make custom non-adjustable perches on the lathe. No trouble of trying to figure how to keep the sleeve from rotating on the shock. No risk of galled threads. I don't think I really need adjustment. Looks less modified to police taking a peek in my wheelwells.
I went with #3, but I decided to outsource the fabrication of these parts.
If anyone wants the STEP file, I can share it with you. You probably want to wait until I have a photo with the sleeve installed and coilover assembled... I'm pretty good at not getting things right the first time.
Monroe 63620 specs (measured by me): Free length: 2.00" Outside diameter: 2.15" Fit on KYB shaft: tight, but good. Hardness: The Monroe bumpstop is made from a harder material than the Eibach bumpstop. My fingernail doesn't go in as deep when pushing into the surface (perhaps half the depth).
The Monroe is good because its outside diameter is good out of the box.
The Monroe could be trimmed down to a length of 1.53" in a way that would look clean, if for whatever reason you want to modify it.
The Eibach stiffness is known (visible in photo of box above), and it is a good bunch softer than the Monroe (fingernail test). If/when the car hits the bumpstop, it is good if the bumpstop is soft, so that the impact is less jarring, and the sudden change in handling characteristics is hopefully easier to manage for the driver.
The softness of the Eibach can also be considered a downside, in the sense that more movement can occur after hitting the bumpstop. Depends on the install... does your install need the bumpstop to prevent tire rubbing, or would there be still clearance with metal-on-metal (no bumpstop)?
On my own car with the Eibach, coil bind of the 10" Hyperco spring will occur with 0.85" of bumpstop squish. It would need 3800 lbs of load on the strut for coil bind to occur (which seems unlikely), so I think I'd rather run the softer Eibach than the harder Monroe.
I suppose that of all things that could limit travel, coil bind doesn't sound too bad, versus having the tire hit the wheelwell or something else happening.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-22-2022).]
Hey guys, a ton of good information on here! I feel kinda stupid asking this question, but which KYB struts are you using? From what I find I would assume its the #236001 Excel-G, but i would really rather make sure before i lay down money!
Hey guys, a ton of good information on here! I feel kinda stupid asking this question, but which KYB struts are you using? From what I find I would assume its the #236001 Excel-G, but i would really rather make sure before i lay down money!
Thanks for the info, used everyone’s posts here to put together my own. This should allow for some bigger tires when this thing hits the road again. KYB struts, Allstar sleeves, Qa1 275lb high travel springs, ABS pipe locators, KYB strut mounts.
------------------ 10.007 @ 135.54MPH. <-- Video Best 60' 1.42 Best mph 138.82 Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 140lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, stock L32 bottom end and heads.
Old M90 XP Cam time - 11.425 @115.60 1.543 60'
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 03-07-2022).]
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Options: 1. Buy a different coilover sleeve for a 2" nominal shock, hope it's better. 2. Make custom sleeves on the lathe. I would have to match the QA1 thread. 3. Make custom non-adjustable perches on the lathe. No trouble of trying to figure how to keep the sleeve from rotating on the shock. No risk of galled threads. I don't think I really need adjustment. Looks less modified to police taking a peek in my wheelwells.
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: I went with #3, but I decided to outsource the fabrication of these parts.
If anyone wants the STEP file, I can share it with you. You probably want to wait until I have a photo with the sleeve installed and coilover assembled... I'm pretty good at not getting things right the first time.
Looks like that idea worked out. The sleeve sits on the weld, with the spring perch up and out of the way.
I'm not a fan of buying aftermarket parts with missing critical information (such as the ID of sleeves). Often turns out to be a waste of time/money... but that is the reality of modifying a car.
The spring will only be preloaded some 1/4", so no spring compressor will be needed. There are enough exposed threads on the shock rod to use the nut to compress the spring.
I found what I think is the ideal bumpstop (my opinion, of course) for Fieros without strut bellows.
Eibach 770014:
It has the squishiness as I previously mentionned so bottoming out shouldn't be too jarring, it has a good grip on the KYB shock rod, and it has no extraneous bits needing trimming like the other Eibach bumpstop I checked before.
I have not messed with the 88 set up, so I couldn't comment on the changes
Thanks for the info, used everyone’s posts here to put together my own. This should allow for some bigger tires when this thing hits the road again. KYB struts, Allstar sleeves, Qa1 275lb high travel springs, ABS pipe locators, KYB strut mounts.
