Well, my '88 Formula is rotten. Jacked it up, lowered it on jackstands, jackstands sank into the frame. Time for a new plan.
I've got this '88, my old daily driver '87, and my very first parts car, an '85 SE. I also have a decent collection of various parts on my shelves. Hidden somewhere in all of this is reliable transportation. Like Dr. Frankenstein, I'm going to collect all my best parts together to make something I can hopefully be proud of.
Each car has its own issues. You know about the '88's rust. Here's the rest of that story. It has a nice red body with the exception of a boo-boo on the driver's fender. It is a sunroof car plus it was an automatic with air.
The '87 was a duke that I did a V6/Getrag swap into. It has been hit several times and the latest one, documented in another thread, was fatal. Even though the insurance company "fixed it", it will never be the same. The bump steer has gone so crazy that it isn't even safe to drive down my neighborhood street. It has a hardtop and a very nice tan interior.
That leaves the '85. It was my very first parts car from way back. It spent most of its life elevated in a garage, off its suspension, with the cradle dropped. That's the way it was when I found it. It was a kit car dream unfulfilled. It only has 23K original miles so the spaceframe and glass are in great shape. Not perfect but pretty darn close. It was an automatic with air and sunroof. Its original engine and transmission are long gone as is the driver's side wiring harness that went to the engine. It had headrest speaker seats that I've been using in the '87. I only recently got the title for it. It had been thought lost by the previous owner but his wife found it.
So, what to do? The new plan is to use the '85 spaceframe, the '88 body panels, gas tank, and cradle, and the '87's hardtop, interior, wiring harnesses, and drivetrain. I'll also look into using the '88's alternator, oil pressure manifold, and exhaust. Basically I'll be building a new Fiero from the ground up. Very little will be staying on the '85 the way it came. I have a bunch of Rodney parts so I'll be using all of them.
Wish me luck, I'm sure there will be questions to follow.
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-11-2012).]
Question one - Rear wiring harnesses that go to the taillights - I know notchies are different from GTs - Are '85 notchie taillight harnesses different from '87 or '88 notchie taillight harnesses? Are they pinned out the same, plug and play?
I would have been all over a project like this 20 years ago. Now that I'm older I try to keep smaller projects going. I envy you guys that still have the energy and perseverence to get it done. It was kind of a big deal for me to just get a 3800 in mine. Sounds like a good time to put a 3800 in yours, since you'll have it all apart anyway. I guarantee it will make you think the whole thing was worth it when you get done.
Question one - Rear wiring harnesses that go to the taillights - I know notchies are different from GTs - Are '85 notchie taillight harnesses different from '87 or '88 notchie taillight harnesses? Are they pinned out the same, plug and play?
Jonathan
The only differences would be if it is a pre-88 car with the V6. It would have connectors for the trunk mounted heater motor for the coil and alternator. Otherwise the wiring should be the same.
I would have been all over a project like this 20 years ago. Now that I'm older I try to keep smaller projects going. I envy you guys that still have the energy and perseverence to get it done. It was kind of a big deal for me to just get a 3800 in mine. Sounds like a good time to put a 3800 in yours, since you'll have it all apart anyway. I guarantee it will make you think the whole thing was worth it when you get done.
It's funny that you should mention a 3800 because I just happen to have an L67 with HD trans and an extra rust free '88 cradle! Yeah it's part of the plan but it's going to have to wait. I'm planning this project in three stages. First I need to get the wiring done, get an engine in there and see if everything is working. Second, I'll do the '88 cradle swap. Finally, when I've got more money to put into it, I'll be buying the mounts, having the wiring harness re-done, getting the ECM re-programed and stuffing the 3800SC in there.
Doing it like this, I can quickly have a running car for very little money. All I should HAVE to buy are some clips and hardware and rubber hoses, etc.
Thaks for your encouragement! Overtime is gone for right now and L-weeks are possible if not probable. If that happens, I'll just have more time for the project. My goal is to have it up and running no later than May. Working nights and weekends, I should be able to make that deadline. If I get a week off, it should be guaranteed.
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-11-2012).]
The only differences would be if it is a pre-88 car with the V6. It would have connectors for the trunk mounted heater motor for the coil and alternator. Otherwise the wiring should be the same.
Both my '85 and '87 have the trunk blower. It sounds like they should be identical. Good news for once!
why not just take the 88 cradle with engine & put it in the 85? cradles in, engines in wirings there.... ? wish I had any "Extra" 88 rear suspension to put in my 85 ? face it, in reality, with air tools you can have an entire Fiero down to the skeliton in a day & a half, then start assembling it as you see fit. Good luck
why not just take the 88 cradle with engine & put it in the 85? cradles in, engines in wirings there.... ? wish I had any "Extra" 88 rear suspension to put in my 85 ? face it, in reality, with air tools you can have an entire Fiero down to the skeliton in a day & a half, then start assembling it as you see fit. Good luck
Because the '88 had been sitting for about 3 or 4 years and wasn't stored correctly. When I finally got it started, it had noisy valves and barely wanted to move. At that point I attempted to prime the oil pump and my socket got stuck inside. So, rather than pull the oil pan and pump, rebuild the distributor, etc with no guarantee of it working well, my time and money would be better spent using what I know already works. I'm certainly not a mechanic and I don't know if the '88's problems were limited to the engine or if there could be transmission problems, too. I'd rather work with what I have than chase a problem with my wallet when I don't have to.
Although all of my Fieros came from the factory with AC, none of them ever worked. I'd like to change all that. I obviously have three sets of parts to use so here's a few questions about them.
Are all '85, '87, and '88 V6 air conditioning components the same and interchangeable?
After all these years, are any of these parts WORTH using?
I don't want leaks. I assume there are some rubber o-rings involved here. What can be serviced and what is cheaper and easier to just replace?
This is the brave recipient. 1985 SE notchback. Originally with a V6, automatic, air, PW, PDL, sunroof. I bought this car complete but non-running for $250.
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-12-2012).]
I don't know if it will show up but I'm trying to show how nice the original windows still are. Haven't been moved up or down in about 15 years! I've got new inner and outer dew wipes for them.
Here is heart of Frankenstein! It is from my very first Fiero, an '87 SE Getrag. I paid $500 for that car many years ago and the engine/trans is still reliable.
This is the interior of my '87 Duke. It was my third Fiero over all but my second daily driver after that first SE was totaled. I put the V6 from the SE in it a couple years ago. When I bought it, it looked like hell on the outside with 6 different shades of tan but I really got it for the interior. It will be going into Frankenstein.
I might use the hardtop from the '87. I have two good sunroof sections that have never dripped a drop but I never look up anyway. They also add weight and will eventually leak or get broken. I suppose I could keep the sunroof until then and change it at that point. What do you guys think?
This is the front trunk of my '87. I'll be using anything in here that needs swapping. I made the carpet kit. It will look better if I tack it down here and there.
This is the '88 that I wanted to build but it is just too weak with rust. The body panels are still nice though. Depending on how overtime goes the next few months, I may just install them as-is or I could have them painted while off. For paint, I'm thinking black with gray stripes down the center and along the lower edge of the sides like a Mustang. I'd like to pinstripe the edges of the gray stripes with yellow.
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-11-2012).]
This is the future! How far into the future is still uncertain. We'll see how work and overtime goes. 2002 GTP L67 3800 Super Charged with HD trans. I pulled it myself $800.
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 05-14-2012).]
Both my '85 and '87 have the trunk blower. It sounds like they should be identical. Good news for once!
Thanks! Jonathan
Nope, I'm wrong. My FIRST '87 had the trunk blower. This one was originally a Duke so it doesn't. Of course none of the '88's had the trunk blower. I guess my '87 and '88 rear harnesses are the same and the '85 is different in that it supports the trunk blower. Should I use it with my 2.8 or discard for a cleaner look and less weight?
Well, my floor was rust free the last time I looked at it. I took the headliner out yesterday and it was dry as a bone so I know it didn't come in from there. I did pressure wash the bottom back in the summer, though. I suspect water got in durring that. The carpet was in all this time and the padding was still wet. This is what I found when I took it out.
I used a wire wheel in my electric drill and this is the result. I'll have to spray some primer soon. I may have to fire up the kerosene heater in the garage tomorrow.
Here is a before and after of my doors. Different doors but you get the idea. I hated the riveted-on braces being rusty. I know nobody will ever see them but I knew they were like that. I scuffed up the whole door so I can paint it all.
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-12-2012).]
Although all of my Fieros came from the factory with AC, none of them ever worked. I'd like to change all that. I obviously have three sets of parts to use so here's a few questions about them.
Are all '85, '87, and '88 V6 air conditioning components the same and interchangeable?
After all these years, are any of these parts WORTH using?
I don't want leaks. I assume there are some rubber o-rings involved here. What can be serviced and what is cheaper and easier to just replace?
Thanks, Jonathan
88 Compressor and control wiring is different - stick with the 85 compressor and wiring to eliminate changes to wiring, or use the 88 if you want to modify the wiring and get a better design compressor. Probably will need a new compressor. Be sure to flush the system (not the new compressor though) and put vacuum on it to check for leaks.
As to the C-500 pinouts - the blower motor wiring is in the taillight half of the connector - engine side should be the same, but you may have an issue with back-up lights due to the Isuzu trans. If the 85 was an automatic, the starter signal wire on the chassis side will need to be moved for the manual trans harness configuration. Note also that the trunk popper lead is in a different place on the 85.
Keep us posted with your progress and any questions you may have.
88 Compressor and control wiring is different - stick with the 85 compressor and wiring to eliminate changes to wiring, or use the 88 if you want to modify the wiring and get a better design compressor. Probably will need a new compressor. Be sure to flush the system (not the new compressor though) and put vacuum on it to check for leaks.
As to the C-500 pinouts - the blower motor wiring is in the taillight half of the connector - engine side should be the same, but you may have an issue with back-up lights due to the Isuzu trans. If the 85 was an automatic, the starter signal wire on the chassis side will need to be moved for the manual trans harness configuration. Note also that the trunk popper lead is in a different place on the 85.
Keep us posted with your progress and any questions you may have.
When I put my 2.8 into the '87 Duke, I was told to change the front L4 wiring harness to the V6 one because of some problem that it would cause with the AC. I think the AC harness that I used came out of this '85. I'll just put it back in. What's the silver tank thing in the front called? The condenser? That thing hasn't seen much use. Do they go bad?
I'm changing both wiring harnesses that go through the bulkhead firewall so I shouldn't have any problems with the reverse lights. I'll be using a Getrag 5-speed and when I swapped it into the '87, it replaced the Isuzu, everything electrical was plug and play. All the taillights worked correctly. It was the desire to get the trunk popper to work in the '85 that brought all these wiring differences to light. I never gave any thought to the trunk blower after the swap. Now I want it to work too so I'll be leaving that portion of the '85 wiring in place. The doubt comes from whether or not an '85 automatic taillight harness is different from an '87 5-speed taillight harness. Hope it all works together.
Hey Boost, Looks like you got a nice project on your hands. Nice that you have the 3800SC to go in it too.... The nice thing about piecing the car together like that is that you can build it how YOU want it. I wish you the best of luck with it. I hope to have another fiero here soon to play with myself. Sucks that 88 was rusted but at least you have another donor there. Where in Kingsport are ya? It seems like Everyone in East Tennessee with a fiero on here is up near bristol except for FieroAndrew and me, I am down in Maryville... peace
Pete
[This message has been edited by Pete Matos (edited 02-13-2012).]
When I put my 2.8 into the '87 Duke, I was told to change the front L4 wiring harness to the V6 one because of some problem that it would cause with the AC. I think the AC harness that I used came out of this '85. I'll just put it back in. What's the silver tank thing in the front called? The condenser? That thing hasn't seen much use. Do they go bad?
I'm changing both wiring harnesses that go through the bulkhead firewall so I shouldn't have any problems with the reverse lights. I'll be using a Getrag 5-speed and when I swapped it into the '87, it replaced the Isuzu, everything electrical was plug and play. All the taillights worked correctly. It was the desire to get the trunk popper to work in the '85 that brought all these wiring differences to light. I never gave any thought to the trunk blower after the swap. Now I want it to work too so I'll be leaving that portion of the '85 wiring in place. The doubt comes from whether or not an '85 automatic taillight harness is different from an '87 5-speed taillight harness. Hope it all works together.
Jonathan
The dessicator bottle will collect moisture from the air with the system open - they don't cost much - you will need a new one.
The tail light harnesses are the same (unless maybe cruise and trunk light options are different, also the 85 trunk light switch is on the rear left corner of the engine bay rather than on the trunk latch), the back up light switch wiring is on the engine harness for the auto and the Isuzu (don't recall which pins on the C-500 at the moment). The 4 speed cars had the back up light switch on the shifter.
The trunk blower is triggered by the coolant fan switch circuit, same as the front fan.
Hey Boost, Looks like you got a nice project on your hands. Nice that you have the 3800SC to go in it too.... The nice thing about piecing the car together like that is that you can build it how YOU want it. I wish you the best of luck with it. I hope to have another fiero here soon to play with myself. Sucks that 88 was rusted but at least you have another donor there. Where in Kingsport are ya? It seems like Everyone in East Tennessee with a fiero on here is up near bristol except for FieroAndrew and me, I am down in Maryville... peace
Pete
Pete, I took my wife to Maryville on my Vmax last year to run the Dragon but I've never gotten down that way with any of my Fieros. I live in Ridgefields. Yeah the rusted '88 does suck! With time off, transportation, etc, I'm into that car for about $1500. At Least I got a perfect gas tank, nice body panels, an '88 engine mount brace, cradle, axles, calipers, etc that I can pull from.
The dessicator bottle will collect moisture from the air with the system open - they don't cost much - you will need a new one.
The tail light harnesses are the same (unless maybe cruise and trunk light options are different, also the 85 trunk light switch is on the rear left corner of the engine bay rather than on the trunk latch), the back up light switch wiring is on the engine harness for the auto and the Isuzu (don't recall which pins on the C-500 at the moment). The 4 speed cars had the back up light switch on the shifter.
The trunk blower is triggered by the coolant fan switch circuit, same as the front fan.
This car has cruise control. I've never had it hooked up and working either. That would be nice. The C-500 harness that I'm using has the 4-wire weatherpac (popper and trunk light) in it. The '85's rear harness has the trunk blower and light wiring it it. Looks like I've got double wiring for the trunk light. Wonder how that will turn out?
We have much in common it seems both in our taste for cars IE the Fiero.... and our taste for Bikes. I am a big Yamaha fan and have had many of them. The best was my 1992 Yamaha FZR1000... Sweet, beautiful, powerful machine. Much like my Fiero GT I should have never sold it but hey I am human right. The Vmax is a sick ride too. Had a couple friends who had them and got to ride them a couple times. We went down to Miami to fuddruckers for a bike night and swapped bikes on the way down. His had a bunch of work done to it and even has some nitrous.... Fun machine and scary torque. Since you are the boost dreamer you NEED to get the sc motor in that fiero so you can live up to your name right!! Gonna be a fun build and I will watch your progress here.... nice to meet ya!! peace
This car has cruise control. I've never had it hooked up and working either. That would be nice. The C-500 harness that I'm using has the 4-wire weatherpac (popper and trunk light) in it. The '85's rear harness has the trunk blower and light wiring it it. Looks like I've got double wiring for the trunk light. Wonder how that will turn out?
Jonathan
Download one of the Factory Service Manuals (86 or 87) and become familiar with the wiring diagrams, they will help you out a great deal.
Next week will be an L-week for me. Since we work 4 ten-hour days, this will give me 10 days off in a row. I should be able to get a bunch done. The temps are expected to be in the 50's and 60's so I'l be able to paint some stuff, too. Stay tuned for more updates and pics.
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
