I hacked up the old HTOB alot to use it as a spacer, but it would still require more work to get it to work, since it IS the input shaft seal. So I looked into spacers from SPEC, and my .25 spacer was $44 shipped. I rather do that then spend all this time on that old HTOB which is actually too thick right now still, and have a chance of it leaking and what-not.
Page 2 ownage!
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 08-26-2012).]
I took a drill and spun the intermediate shaft while in gear and it spun the input shaft.(the allen bolt that needs to be removed to split the case) I took my 6" metabo with a grinding wheel held it up to the input shaft while it was spinning until it was turned down to spec. I turned it down to .750" (same as 282 getrag) and .350" deep. The hole inside the 3800 crank is .800"
Roughed in the mounts today. Still quite a bit of trimming and welding to do. Its mostly all stainless since its what was available. Anyone see any additional bracing I should do? I'm going to put a plate on the back side of the front mount to box it in a bit.
Yeah it's not a great picture. I'll take more when its all done. Its a bushing/dog bone design. On the back side I retained the dodge mount that I used before. The dodge mount didn't too well on the front since it gets a pulling motion under power.
Well I had to clearance the inside of the trans so the pressure plate wont interfere. I guess it only hits with the style of PP I have. I bolted it together and turned the motor over with a wrench. I can turn it all the way around but I do feel and hear it still rubbing just a tiny bit. I'll just let it rub the rest away on its own.
Finished up some of the mounts. Waiting on the poly to cure for the bottom half of the front mount.
Yea now I can see why the pressure plate would just stop solid, I didn't know you had to remove that much.
But, about that front mount design, idk. It's holding all the weight in tension, and acting as a lever of sorts on those two top bolts. Not sure how well that's going to work. But I guess we will see.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-05-2012).]
I agree that's not a good design for the front mount... especially at your power level.
Also, can't you get the correct pressure plate from SPEC (or ClutchNet for that matter...) so that you don't have to grind on the transmission case? That's a part of the case that is under some stress from the final drive mesh, and has been shown to fail on 282's.
I agree that's not a good design for the front mount... especially at your power level.
Have any suggestions? I'm pretty limited to what I can do in that corner.
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Also, can't you get the correct pressure plate from SPEC (or ClutchNet for that matter...) so that you don't have to grind on the transmission case? That's a part of the case that is under some stress from the final drive mesh, and has been shown to fail on 282's.
Yes I could for $300-$400 plus resurfacing cost. If this was a new build I would get the correct pressure plate. There is a lot of meat around that area and if it worked for Jncomutt I'm willing to give it a shot. I'll post the destruction when it happens.
Have any suggestions? I'm pretty limited to what I can do in that corner.
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Originally posted by ericjon262: wow, you will have to get pretty creative there, your best bet will probably be to come off the bellhousing with a mount there.how about putting the cobalt goods in the cavalier case?
I'll ask again...
------------------ there's a Group on 60degreeV6.com for us 660 Fiero owners!
Originally posted by Justinbart: Have any suggestions? I'm pretty limited to what I can do in that corner.
I'm not familiar with F23's, but can you either add extra support from one or more case half bolts and maybe the end cap bolts OR build a bracket on the body frame rail to bolt up a mount that will bolt directly to the boss on the trans case without putting so much leverage on it.
I called Roger Thelin today for the HTOB to fiero clutch line adapter and it's on the way. He is probably the nicest person I have ever talked to on the phone before!
Put in a few more hours today. I pulled the trans back off to take a look at where it was hitting. I lightly shaved/nicked off the corner of the PP where it was hitting. Now i can't hear or feel it hitting at all. Roger said to bleed this HTOB, all you do is rapidly push the clutch pedal 15 times. Sure enough, worked like a charm. It feels really good and releases fully just before I hit the floor. My fingers on the PP stick out more than Matt's. I did some measuring and didn't think I needed a spacer. So far so good.
Got the cradle back in and it looks like it would very easy to make a mount to the frame rail of the car. Should give some hope to anyone else doing the hybrid F23. I think all I have left is shift cable brackets.
I called Roger Thelin today for the HTOB to fiero clutch line adapter and it's on the way. He is probably the nicest person I have ever talked to on the phone before!
Yeah, Thelin is an awesome dude. Always a learning session when I speak to him and as cool as a cucumber....
Sweet build thread, BTW. Want to do the same trans swap to my car.
Looking good Justin. That mount looks like an interesting solution. But if it holds on your car, it should hold on anything!
And omg, replace your suspension bushings. Even from a distance in those pics, I can see how destroyed they are.
The mount is far less crazy looking in person. I would have most likely just tossed a small hunk of plate on it and welded straight to the "dogbone" thing.
Put in a few more hours today. I pulled the trans back off to take a look at where it was hitting. I lightly shaved/nicked off the corner of the PP where it was hitting. Now i can't hear or feel it hitting at all.
The general rule of thumb on clearances is you want 0.050" minimum to allow for heat expansion and such. Seeing as how your engine will have some thrust movement of the crank, you may want to give yourself just a bit more. But you certainly don't want ANYTHING rubbing - especially if you are using knock sensors. Any kind of contact will create a noise which will trigger false knock.
Use modeling clay to measure your clearances in these areas where you can't see nor get to them when everything is assembled.
i really like your mount .with a dogbone limiting the rocking motion i think you have all the strength you need .and the three bolt boss on the tranny housing looks really substantial .it will be really interesting to see how an F23 holds up to turbo 3800 torque .
My problem is I don't think my N/A internals can take that much boost (reliably) before exploding...Boost will come in the future, most likely with a different engine built up, right now I'm going for MPG that is why I have an N/A and kept the EGR, the F23, and 195/70/14 tires.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-25-2012).]
My problem is I don't think my N/A internals can take that much boost (reliably) before exploding...Boost will come in the future, most likely with a different engine built up, right now I'm going for MPG that is why I have an N/A and kept the EGR, the F23, and 195/70/14 tires.
Just because Justin and I broke his racing the crap out of it at well over 500whp levels does not mean you can not take care of a 300whp setup and have it last forever.
Just because Justin and I broke his racing the crap out of it at well over 500whp levels does not mean you can not take care of a 300whp setup and have it last forever.
So the N/A should be fine at 300whp? The L36, not the L26.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-25-2012).]
So the N/A should be fine at 300whp? The L36, not the L26.
I would venture to say that the L36 is stronger than the L26. If I didn't find my L32 for the price I did I would have put in another l26 or l36. I abused the L26 for a solid year before it let go.
This is looking sweet man, I joined up at the right time! What do you plan of doing for shifter cables? I assume the F23 wants to be fed from the back since it was FWD, can you just extend the cables? or is there a cleaner way... and is the throw length of the fiero shifter OK for the F23 or did you swap the entire linkage as well?
