Damn thats perfectly clean. Great job. I don't have the patience for something like that. I so want to powercoat my 88 cradle now to keep it from rusting anymore, but sadly I don't think it's worth the money..lots of dents and a few rust holes.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-23-2012).]
Damn thats perfectly clean. Great job. I don't have the patience for something like that. I so want to powercoat my 88 cradle now to keep it from rusting anymore, but sadly I don't think it's worth the money..lots of dents and a few rust holes.
The bottom of my cradle has dents from people (not me of course) jacking up the car incorrectly. I didn't bother fixing them. No major rust though. If there was, I would have repaired it. I started out pricing paints that would stand up similar to powder coating and came up with a product called "endura" made by a company that manufactures aircraft paints. It's a polyester base and very strong. It would cost me just under $200 for the paint components and I would still have to prep, prime and paint the cradle myself. A local company sandblasted, primed and powder coated the cradle and suspension pieces for $200....was a no brainer decision. Of course I would have paint left over for the $200 if I did it all myself but I couldn't be happier with the end result.
With the cradle done it's time to mount the engine and trans. Nest up; exaust manifolds. I made sure to pull out the pieces of cloth I was using to prevent things from getting into the exhaust ports. With kids in the house, you'd be amazed the number of times they stick things where they don't belong... lego's in shoes, cherrios in the xbox to name a few. I sure don't need nuts and bolts in the engine.
Instructions I've read made note to enforce the importance of using graphite on the cast iron exhaust manifold gasket mating surfaces to prevent them from cracking. I can guess why this would happen and having one cracked already, they seemed like good instructions to follow. I dusted the gasket sides and mating surfaces of the heads and manifolds for good measure then bolted them up.
I'm really happy with the way things are looking so far. I hope my home made exhaust piping doesn't kill it. This is the rear side of the engine. You can see the rear engine mount setup complete.
Here's the front side manifold installed and torqued. The modifications I made to the gaskets earlier worked they way I wanted them too...you can't even tell they are there. You can also see the bracket and mount set up. I had to make the intermediate bracket so the stock aluminum engine bracket could mate to the engine mount. It allows the engine mount to be flat and level which made the custom cradle bracket easier to make and better looking too. (at least I think it's better looking).
When I was cleaning up the engine, I noticed a lot of oil and crud caught in this pocket between the inner two exhaust legs. Before I had coated these manifolds, I drilled a hole (3/8"?) at the bottom of the pocket to act as a drain path and prevent this build up in the furture.
It's kinda hard to see but this is a better shot of the pocket. Why would anyone design it this way? I Put the hole as far in to leave as much ribbing as possible on the head side for strength.
One last try at a clear shot...oh well, I tried. You get the idea.
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 05-25-2012).]
Here is my exhaust that I made myself...pretty extravagant, no?
That looks pretty good from here! I'm not spending any money on my exhaust piping. I'm kinda tired of sinking money into this project and what I want for the exhaust system is gonna cost me. So I set my goal for the exhaust at just using what I had left over from what was on the 4cyl and what was left on the v8 when I brought it home. The 4cyl exhaust was not very old and all piping had plenty of life left in it so it all got pieced together.
That looks pretty good from here! I'm not spending any money on my exhaust piping. I'm kinda tired of sinking money into this project and what I want for the exhaust system is gonna cost me. So I set my goal for the exhaust at just using what I had left over from what was on the 4cyl and what was left on the v8 when I brought it home. The 4cyl exhaust was not very old and all piping had plenty of life left in it so it all got pieced together.
Better get used to it now, these projects always require sinking more and more money into them...or so it seems. Lol.
Edit: Even more so if you are using an Isuzu. LOL sorry, had to say it.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-27-2012).]
Better get used to it now, these projects always require sinking more and more money into them...or so it seems. Lol.
Edit: Even more so if you are using an Isuzu. LOL sorry, had to say it.
Lol...didn't even see that one coming! It's not that the money isn't there...if it wasn't, I wouldn't work on larger projects. It's just always been a theme of any project I take on; Trying to do as much as possible with as little invested as possible. When I was younger and had no money, I'd be building gokarts and minibikes from lawnmower, chainsaws and scrap steelI found at the side of the road on grabage day. Good times!
Yea that does sound like fun! That's what I'm doing now pretty much, except it's building Fiero's instead of gokarts. Would be awesome to build a gokart, and I probably would have by now, however my parents house and surrounding area is no place for such things.
I ordered these rear black poly bushings a while ago but there were none in stock in black...had to wait on manufacturer. I already have a set of front poly bushings in black thanks to a Calgary Fiero club member preferring a smooth ride to tight suspension. A quick check to make sure all the pieces are there.
Finally decided on how I would run the fuel lines to the engine. I got these two 3' sections of fuel line; one is 5/16" and the other is 3/8". They have the proper threaded fitting to match the factory flexible fuel line fitting just south of the fuel filter. I'm going to run them along the bottom of the frame rail to the trunk wall. Then go up the corner and above the valve cover to keep away from the exhaust manifold. Where they end there is a lip to mount a high pressure fuel line hose which will go to quick connect fittings. These fittings will utilize the stock stainless fuel lines that came with the 94 Deville. Here's a pic of the packages. They proved quite hard to find.
A closer shot of the product.
Here's the quick connect fittings. It took a lot of searching to find exactly what I was looking for...well, close enough. I believe they are from a company called "Dorman". One is for 3/8 hose and 5/16 quick connect, the other is 5/16 hose and 5/16 quick connect. The fiero has a 3/8 feed and a 5/16 return line. The 94 Caddy fuel lines are both 5/16 quick connect. Finding the right step down and needed 90 bend was a lot of foot work.
The factory flex lines get mounted to the bottom of the frame rail. I'll just tie-wrap the bottom one to the top one.
These are the two tubing benders I have on hand.
The blue handled one is more convenient when bending in tight areas but does a crappy job on the 3/8" line when trying to bend a 90. I had no problem with it and the 5/16, but when I went for the 3/8, I got to a certain point and it just folded. I bent the line back but wasn't happy with the potential fuel restriction or possible failure of the part. Off to buy a new line.
The only one around was on the other side of the country. I found out that the "R" in the part # stood for "comes with attaching hardware". I already had that so I ordered the only 3 fuel lines without hardware available in case I killed another one.
Killed another one!
I even used the good bender. The problem was that as the black bender pulled down on the tube as it was being bent around the die, it dragged it along the top and caused it to come out of the die and crease.
I solved the sliding problem by using a pair if small vice grip pliers on the up side of the bender to keep the line from sliding.
The line completed and in place. Just got to anchor them permanently then add the hose and fittings when the engine is in.
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 05-29-2012).]
That's nice! I originally had a working but not so nice looking fuel line setup from someone else on PFF. Then my original lines rusted, so I just replaced all the lines from the tank to the 4.9 fuel lines with lines I bent myself, using the exact same black bender you have.
This is SO cool to follow your work! So, will you bring the finished product to the 30th Anniversary? I'm sure others will want to shake your hand and say "Thanks!" for sharing your project on here.
Use some heat when bending the lines. It will make the metal more pliable. Looking great! I can appreciate a man that takes the time to use proper insulated Adel clamps instead of zip ties. Good (+) for you!
Edit, I prefer the black poly too. I hated all the yellow (whiteline poly) on my WRX.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-30-2012).]
This is SO cool to follow your work! So, will you bring the finished product to the 30th Anniversary? I'm sure others will want to shake your hand and say "Thanks!" for sharing your project on here.
Where's the 30th being held?
I'm glad you're enjoying my posts...that's why I'm doing it! I enjoy following others progress so I thought others might enjoy following mine.
Use some heat when bending the lines. It will make the metal more pliable. Looking great! I can appreciate a man that takes the time to use proper insulated Adel clamps instead of zip ties. Good (+) for you!
Edit, I prefer the black poly too. I hated all the yellow (whiteline poly) on my WRX.
Thanks for the compliments! After kinking the first tube, I did heat it up before trying to bend it back. It was just too far gone for my liking. The heat should restore some of the flexibility and remove the stress in the steel in the bent areas. I used the first damaged line to test different techniques including heat but came to the conclusion I didn't have enough and would need to buy a proper torch. The final bend with the vice grips worked well on the test piece, so I just went with that...but I do want to buy a proper torch. It works well to restore pliability to copper crush washers used in brake line to caliper fittings. I heat them up on a screwdriver till they start to glow red but not melt, then cool them in a can of water...flexible as a new one!
The heater core is fed from the output on the thermostat housing and returns into the system through the stainless tube attached to the stainless runner on the passenger side. You can kinda see the return line in the bottom left corner of this pic.
This means that the 4.9 return tube needs to be plugged some how. You can see it circled in red in this pic.
There are lots of ways to plug this but for some reason I wanted to use a piece of steel plumbing that came with the 4.9
Left over cut tube.
I cut it down to around 3" long, and put it over a wooden dowel. Using a hammer, I started folding the upper lip over till just a little hole was left.
I welded the end shut and smoothed it out a bit before paint. A side shot of the plug. There's a lot of ways to plug this heater core return port. Some use a bolt etc. I'm not sure why I chose this route. but it's done. I'll know later this month if it sealed well. Here's the end result.
Given the chance to do it again, I'd want to use a piece of solid aluminum bar and machine it down so it has a lip on the sealing end, and a polished end that resembles a piston. We'll see if it leaks first.
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 06-03-2012).]
Beautiful carefully thought out work with meticulous workmanship. I am involved in a 4.9L swap right now ( but with an auto) and your work and neatness is inspiring. BTW I like the job that you did on the fuel lines but I decided to use the 6AN to 14 x 1.5 O ring port adapters on the fuel rail so that I can attach #6 AN SS braided lines On the Fiero OEM flexible line for the feed you can use a 6 AN male to 16mm x 1.5 O ring port adapter and on the return use a 6AN male to 14mm x.1.5 O ring port adapter. We've got to keep in mind that while the Fiero filter (and tank return) flexible line connection hoses are of excellent material they are 25 years old. I believe that any good hose shop can install new flexible hose sections and recrimp the hose ferrules. We can try just hooking up to them as you did but is it is a good idea? I am deciding between reusing them or having them rebuilt but as far as I can tell they are in great shape. I'll probaby have the hose shop put in new hose sections. Keep the pics coming. Great post..
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 06-03-2012).]
Beautiful carefully thought out work with meticulous workmanship. I am involved in a 4.9L swap right now ( but with an auto) and your work and neatness is inspiring. BTW I like the job that you did on the fuel lines but I decided to use the 6AN to 14 x 1.5 O ring port adapters on the fuel rail so that I can attach #6 AN SS braided lines On the Fiero OEM flexible line for the feed you can use a 6 AN male to 16mm x 1.5 O ring port adapter and on the return use a 6AN male to 14mm x.1.5 O ring port adapter. We've got to keep in mind that while the Fiero filter (and tank return) flexible line connection hoses are of excellent material they are 25 years old. I believe that any good hose shop can install new flexible hose sections and recrimp the hose ferrules. We can try just hooking up to them as you did but is it is a good idea? I am deciding between reusing them or having them rebuilt but as far as I can tell they are in great shape. I'll probaby have the hose shop put in new hose sections. Keep the pics coming. Great post..
That's too funny! I was going to grab one of my fuel line pics for another thread where you commented about the heat/trunk wall/fuel line issue and ask some questions. No need for that now. To answer your questions; I plan on eventually replacing the factory lines from the tank, along with the fuel filter and flex hoses up to my new steel lines. The lines around the fuel filter are getting rusty and I don't like it. I'm not worried about the hoses but figure the aftermarket would sell the complete line including the flex and building it the way I am will make for easy replacement with stock parts. I did look into a LOT of different options for fuel lines before settling on my choice here. The primary reasons are; I wanted it to appear as though it could have come from the factory as opposed to being an obvious swap. I wanted the least number of connection points along the fuel line. Less connections, less chances of things leaking. (my logic anyhow) I don't like the look of the stainless braided and the fittings are often ugly. (my opinion) The guy at the local performance shop pissed me off while trying to get a look at the fuel line components. (forget him) Bent steel lines are easier to keep out of the way. (harder to bend though) Keeping the factory tank and flex line setup would allow me to reverse the swap if I ever went out of my mind and had lots of time. (now I'm just grabbing at straws!) Most importantly, the whole set up cost a lot less than the high end braided hoses and anodized fittings I looked at. (I'm cheap)
I feel like making the battery box. If this engine is going in soon, it's going to need some power. I don't want the battery to be in the way back there, so up front it goes. Should help clean up the engine bay. Just checking out where it's going to fit.
After making a cardboard template, I added an inch and drew up the pieces on sheet steel
Cut out with a zip cut disk on an angle grinder.
The steel was from an old electrical cabinet so the years of ugly paint needed to be stripped.
Using a thick piece of angle iron as a guide, I cut a relief channel in the steel where I wanted to fold it over. Using vice grip pliers to hold the bend in line with the angle iron, I beat the fold over with a rubber mallet.
Tack welding the pieces together proved I had miss-calculated a tad. Nothing a piece of coat hanger won't fill.
The inside weld over the coat hanger filler. Keep in mind this needs to have the slag from the flux core wire knocked off.
There seems to be a clearance issue between the aluminum lump on the left side of the steering rack and the rad hose on the left.
Another angle...sigh. I'm starting to compare the front end to the rear powder coated trailing links. Not pretty.
I tried to offset the battery hole but still have the clearance issue with the hose.
Those brake line bends are getting in the way too. Easier to move than the rad hose. It's the stainless section that's making things difficult.
I chose to keep the box more centered and cut a relief for the hose.
Things are getting tight!
There's a bit of a gap between the wheel tub and battery box bottom...but that's why I made the lip 1" around. Compensates for some error.
Test fitting the battery in the box.
It's under there!
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 06-05-2012).]
Really? 3:41a.m.? Are you still going from the previous day, or getting up early? The Official 30th Fiero Anniversary is tentatively scheduled for June 27-30, 2013. From what I can tell, the date is firm, but details to follow. You can find much discussion on the chat thread. I must compliment you on your COMBINED skills. You have a good engineering mind for the design of the things you are fabricating, and you have the mechanical and welding skills to perform the fabricating. I hope to see you at the anniversary. Oh, and bring the car too!
Really? 3:41a.m.? Are you still going from the previous day, or getting up early? The Official 30th Fiero Anniversary is tentatively scheduled for June 27-30, 2013. From what I can tell, the date is firm, but details to follow. You can find much discussion on the chat thread. I must compliment you on your COMBINED skills. You have a good engineering mind for the design of the things you are fabricating, and you have the mechanical and welding skills to perform the fabricating. I hope to see you at the anniversary. Oh, and bring the car too!
Yup. There's too much to do and not enough time in the day...so I work at night to. Up at 7:30 for the 8 to 5 job. I'm also "on call" this Thurs through Monday over and above the 40hr/wk shift....that's 24hrs/day, but only average 2700hrs/yr. I'm kind of a workaholic. So the 30th is just over a year away...I'll see what I can do but chances are that I will be "on call" for work. Thanks for the compliments! I'm a huge believer in doing everything myself. It's the only way things will get done the way I want them to be done.
Edit: Actually the Pennock's clock is 2hrs ahead of mine. 3am Pennock's time is actally 1am Calgary time!
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 06-07-2012).]
It looks like it's coming along well! See you on Thursday.
Nolan
Almost. I still don't have my reprogrammed chip so even If I was done...well, are we really ever done with these cars? I'm gonna try hard to make it on Thursday; work permitting. You bring the rotors, I'll bring the cash!
Time to figure out how to get the power to the front of the car. I found this "battery cable" at the PicknPull. It is out of a Buick Riviera with 3800 series 1 supercharger. Its bigger than 4gauge so I'm thinking around 3? The battery is located on the drivers side under the rear seats. The cable runs to the passenger side, under the plastic door sill cover, up the foot well, through the firewall, along the shock tower to a junction box labled "battery +". This box can be used for jump starting the car if needed. Then a cable runs from there to the starter, alternator, and under hood fuse distribution box. Altogether, maybe 14ft of wire. Definitely long enough to make front to back in the fiero.
The best part is the price of the "battery cable" at the wreckers:
Try buying just the battery connector for less than that!
I picked up two of these with their firewall grommets. The cable from a non SC Riviera had a 4gauge wire...not sure if the SC version needs the larger cable for starting current or if the factory just ran out of larger wire and went to 4 gauge to save $$. Who knows, but I figure I'll use the larger cable for the pos and the 4gauge for ground.
It also has a handy pigtail coming from the terminal that I used to ground the frame up front. You can almost never use enough grounds. I tapped an existing frame hole, cleaned the metal and used an extra automotive bolt. Always take extra bolts when you pick up parts from the wreckers...you never know if you'll need them later.
Mounted the battery cable junction box in the battery tray area. From here it will go to the starter and fiero junction terminal in the engine bay by the shock tower.
The starter end of the riviera cable has that handy shape to let you know exactly how it connects. I just hope it's the same between the two starters!
I used a permanent marker to colour one of the red battery terminals black. Permanent markers have a way of leaching their color into almost any plastic they are used on. I'm hoping that it will become a permanent stain on the red rubberish connector and be obvious to anyone it's the ground. Who am I kidding, like I'd let anyone else work on my car.
Now that I have the routing chosen so I know everything will fit, I got to get the cables into the battery box. The pos cable will be covered in slit 1/2" heater hose to prevent it from being damaged by accident and shorting any where on the frame. But for now, this is where I figure the best route is. It will provide plenty of places to firmly anchor the cables to the chassis.
I used a hole saw to cut a path for the cables and the firewall grommets that came with the cables. A final test fit before the battery box gets smoothed out and powder coated.
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 06-07-2012).]
Looks great. I love that you found these cables at Pick-N-Pull for so cheap. You for sure cannot make a set anywhere near that cheap. With that in mind I may redo mine because I am pretty sure the the cables are too small for such a long distance on mine and the ground does not run from front to back. It is only grounded in the front area from the battery.
Looks great. I love that you found these cables at Pick-N-Pull for so cheap. You for sure cannot make a set anywhere near that cheap. With that in mind I may redo mine because I am pretty sure the the cables are too small for such a long distance on mine and the ground does not run from front to back. It is only grounded in the front area from the battery.
As a rule I will always run the battery ground cable directly to the block and branch out from there or along the way. It's the way the factory did it and you'd be amazed at the resistance you can get through the chassis. In theory it doesn't make sense but it can happen. Not to say it won't work grounding just to the frame up front, I'm just not comfortable with it.
Now that the battery box is done, I want a durable finish so it's off to the powder coaters. I asked if there was any type of filler that would work with being baked under powder coating and was given the following product.
I'm not kidding, that's it's name! I was told bondo or fiberglass would just break down under the coating while it's in the oven and ruin the finish. This stuff is a liquid vinyl that cures at 400 degrees for 30min or so. When the "Hot Caulk" is at room temperature it stays soft mushy like regular latex caulk. Once it is baked (on my BBQ), it takes on the consistency of firm rubber. It is meant to fill stitch welding in corners, powdered, then baked at the same time as the coating but can be baked separate if you wish to manipulate the shape of the hardened "Hot Caulk". I used the caulk to fill any voids or cracks so it could be cured and shaped like any filler.
Because the "Hot Caulk" has the cured consistancy of rubber, I found it easiest to reshape using a rasp file and razor knife to shave the lumps off and 40 grit to remove unwanted material, 80 grit to finish sand. Anything less and it just didn't remove any material.
After final positioning, I marked and drilled where I wanted the holes for clip anchors. I'm screwing it in place because If I ever have to remove the battery box, It will only come out easily if I take it out of the wheel tub first. Last few shots before it's coated black and hidden for good!
The battery box back from the powder coaters! I found out that if there are any air pockets under the caulk, it can cause bubbles when baked. Nothing that left unprotected metal, just a few unsightly blemishes. No worries as no one will ever see them once everything is together.
There is a piece of 1/4 round bar welded to the back of the box about 3/8" off the bottom with it's bottom side filed flat. This holds down the battery by it's back lip the same as the stock fiero battery is held in place. The hole in the front will use the fiero battery hold down block. There is a 1/4 piece of flat bar welded to the bottom of the box that is tapped and allows the battery hold-down to anchor to more than just the sheet metal. As the battery is tightened in place, it pulls up on the flat bar which extends under the battery for solid support. The hole was drilled off center because the battery sits 3/8" to the driverside as a result of the angled corner to clear the rad hose. I kinda regret drilling the hole off center as it looks wrong, like a mistake. I'll just have to hide it with the spare tire!
It'll be easier to build the exhaust with the engine out of the car. I put it and the cradle up on stand so I could test fit things a little at a time. I'm not truly proud of what I am going to post next but I took the pictures so.....
I really want to build my own mufflers but don't want to invest the time right now. I want to drive this car before it snows so some comprimizes are taking place. I'm modifying the existing 4cyl muffler and exhaust to breath a bit better with the V8.
Be kind with the criticism.
You all know you want to see what's inside as much as I do...don't deny it!
This is the side that goes out to the drivers side pipe.
and the passenger side.
Cut off the 90 that leads to the engine under the cradle.
Surgery in progress. Time for a coffee break!
Hacking out the small inlet pipe to replace it with 2 1/2" 90.
Just when you thought the hackjob couldn't get any worse...
Some relief cuts around the opening and bent out allows the larger pipe to fit in. I'll weld everything up once I establish a proper length and angle.
I know that the 90 in the 2 1/2" is restrictive. The guy that bent it said it wouldn't be bad. He lied. What's done is done, but it should breath a bit better than the 4cyl setup. Keep in mind THIS IS ONLY TEMPORARY.
Note; Make sure all temporary repairs are of good quality as they often become permanent.
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 06-12-2012).]
you realize you can buy a turbo muffler for about $30 right?
Oh yeah, I know. But don't forget; new muffler means new down pipes, means new exhaust tips, means new hangers, means lining everything up with proper height, angles anchors etc...much more than just $30. Keeping the original setup lets me just bolt it back on when I'm done. Don't forget, I want to build my own mufflers. What I actually want in a muffler is not available...or at least I haven't seen it anywhere. Part of the fun in these projects for me is building and creating things. I know I could have bought a battery box for less than the cost of the caulking and powder coating, but it wouldn't have been what I wanted. Anyone with money can throw it at new parts. Not everyone can build their own. And that to me is worth more than $30! Besides, I really want to hear how this things going to sound!
LOL sorry, had to say it.
