So it's time to get back at this thing. Kinda been shelved for the last little bit. Figured i'd work at the exhaust some. The plan is to get this 3.8 mustang header to fit my front cylinder head. So i oblonged the holes in the header to match my 3800 s/c gasket. I still have the issue where the collector hits the block where the starter will bolt up. My plan is to bolt the header down to this 3/4" steel plate and then heat and bend it upward away from the starter. [/URL]
Got my 5/16" holes drilled in the plate ready to bolt up the header. [/URL]
All bolted up [/URL]
Got my magnetic base out to use as a reference so i know how far the header is bent after heating and tweaking. [/URL]
So I heated the 3 primary tubes up and bent the header. The magnetic base did not seem like it was going to work too well as a reference point since the vise would move a little bit each time i tried to bent the header. I ended up using a tape measure and measuring from the rear jaw set straight out to a spot on the header collector. I started with a measurement of 15/16" and after bending, I had a measurement of 1 1/4". Hopefully this will be enough...I'll have to unbolt it off the plate and try it on the head. If not, it may require a little more persuasion.
See aren't the Mustang manifolds fun to modify to fit the GM 3800 engine but in the end better then using stock manifolds, you eliminate the exhaust cross over pipe so no heat at the TB and 4 speed shifter cables clear and they are a lot cheaper then headers. Dan
yeah lots of fun Yes, in the end it should be worth the hassle. I hope to get a chance to try the header for fit tomorrow morning. Hopefully I have tweaked it enough to clear the block and starter. I think i will stick some high heat reflective tape on the starter and i believe i will be wrapping the pipes as well. Nice to get rid of the crossover pipe too. I still have to hook up the f23 shifter linkage i got from you and try the shifter with the select cables.
So i tried the header on the cyl head this morning, and it still is not bent enough to clear the tab on the block. I bolted the starter up and found that it was even more of an issue that the block as far as clearance was concerned. I am not sure how much further upward and outward i can bend the collector on the header before i run into problems with it hitting or being too close to the firewall. Does anyone know how much room there is between the block and the firewall on a 3800 s/c roughly??
for under $150 you can buy all the mandrel bent tubing (mild steel) you need to make two manifolds if you want to venture into that. I just built some custom exhaust it was really fun. I got my tubing at speedway. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/
You can make the flange yourself from that steel you bolted the mustang header to.
I just used a mig with shielding gas and some .23" wire. If you want the mild steel manifolds to last a while I would get them ceramic coated.
It is not expensive but not super cheap either, but it is fun and you can make the exhaust do exactly what you want.
I made a new Y pipe for the 2.8 that exits under the trunk and the rest of the exhaust is also under the trunk so there is no heat by the firewall. It is very satisfying when it is done! Maybe give it a try if you can't get the mustang manifold to work
Thanks Zach for the input. The idea sounds good, but don't have a welder here at home (where the car is) that is really much good. I want to get a good one sometime soon. I have been doing the work on the header at work and then bringing it home to try. I actually cut about 1/2 way down thru the three primary tubes and took about a 1/4" wide cut. Then heated and bent it up. I tacked it in place, let it cool for the rest of the day, and then brought it home with me tonight. I tried it on the head with the starter bolted up in place, and it fit..barely. I have to make one more cut thru it and it should be good to go. It will probably leave me with 1/2" gap between it and the starter solenoid. Don't know how the starter solenoid will make out that close to heat..maybe i will put some heat reflective tape on the starter and wrap the header and pipe. I have a couple pics but photobucket is down at the moment so i can't upload right now. I plan to use the stock 3800 rear dump manifold as it seems to be pretty good. I will weld the hole over for the old crossover. troy
[This message has been edited by fieroaddicted (edited 11-05-2013).]
What about getting a set of 3800 headers from 86 toy. I got a set for my 3800 build and they are incredible. Excellent work and he was very fast making them.
I got the header cut for the last time, and since it is stainless, I took it up the road to have it stainless tig welded since i don't have access to one myself Hopefully get it back tomorrow and get it bolted on.
I think if you want to stick with the mustang headers you may want to get one that points the opposite direction, cut the bottom off where they collect and turn it 180degrees and have it rewelded so you can go around the starter instead of over it because that starter is going to die all the time having the manifold that close. I think this is possible because the plane where the tubes all collect seems to point (almost) straight down so flipping the collector around should make it point in the same direction is does now, except just like a foot over to the left of the starter.
[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 11-07-2013).]
Yes Zach, you are right. I should have got the right side mustang header rather than the left. It was mentioned to me to get the left side, and i didn't realize i could have used the other until after the fact. I think, however, that i can make this one work. It has been modified quite a bit. I was hoping that with the header wrap on and reflective high heat tape on the starter, that it may be ok? I'm gonna try it since i have it. I know the kawasaki brute force 750's at work have this tape on the inner side of the rear fenders where the exhaust runs close to the plastic and it does an excellent job protecting it from heat. I am hoping I will have the same luck. troy
before pic of nasty rear manifold [/URL] got all the crap cut off that i won't be needing [/URL] needs to be cleaned up still, but I have welded a piece of plate over the open end I created, and welded a bolt head in the small egr hole. I water tested it for possible holes in the weld and it is good to go. [/URL]
[This message has been edited by fieroaddicted (edited 11-14-2013).]
yes i don't need the egr for emissions here, so i should be good to go. I seen some nice aluminum plugs made to plug the egr hole in the lower intake, but can't remember where i seen them now.
You may want to get rid of the section that went to the cross over completely instead of leaving that short section (with the plate welded over it) the mustang manifold is going to flow better than the stock manifold as it is and I do not know for certain but it seems like that extra bit of tubing might slow down your exhaust velocity on that side, maybe enough to make a difference.
If you cut it off flush to the manifold (the section that went to the X over) the metal piece you weld will have to be curved obviously and there is an easy way to accomplish this.
Tack a piece of whatever thickness metal plate you have at the top of the hole. Then, work your way down hammering the plate down so it curves properly, tack welding as you go until it is completely closed over, then weld it up.
you make a good point. I have no idea if it would hinder the flow or not. I think that 2 of the cylinders would no be bothered really because it is more or less a straight shot out. But the one cylinder on the end I am not sure of. If i was sure it would bother it the way it is, i would definitely change it. Doesn't the P-log have a similar setup with an extra piece on the end? troy
If you have a spare 3800SC PCV valve cover it works quite well as a block off for the egr or take the EGR piece that bolts to the intake cut it off the EGR hose and fill it in with weld or weld a small piece across it some paint and bolt it on. Dan
If you have a spare 3800SC PCV valve cover it works quite well as a block off for the egr or take the EGR piece that bolts to the intake cut it off the EGR hose and fill it in with weld or weld a small piece across it some paint and bolt it on. Dan
yes i still have my egr hose with the end piece. Sounds like a good idea Dan, thanks.
Dan, I may have asked before, but is there any way i can run a separate O2 sensor at the front bank as well? The mustang one is already threaded for one. troy
The 3800 PCM can only run one main O2 as far as I know that can be used for engine control the second O2 on the 3800 does not affect fueling and is more of a tester for the CAT's efficiency or condition. I would double check with some like Darth to be sure though. Dan
So I guess i will go with what you suggested Dan, and use a second o2 sensor mated to a gauge on the dash to help monitor the left bank of the engine. If nothing else, an extra gauge will look cool on the dash beside the boost gauge
Wrap kit came yesterday! 100ft with stainless ties and silicone spray to seal it. Obviously probably not enough to do what i need, but it will get me started.
so spent an hour or so tonight wrapping the mustang header. Never done it before...i know it's not rocket science, but I am happy with how it turned out. lol
still have to pick up my front engine mount yet. I am crossing my fingers that the rubber mounts will not fail. Gonna run two dog bones with the setup so with some luck, hopefully they will last. I would have went with the poly engine mounts, but the cradle will be solid mounted and i was worried about the extra engine vibration with the balance shaft removed. I have no idea how bad the vibration will be.
finally managed to get the car in the garage the other day. Picked away at the engine bay a bit this afternoon. Battery box still in good shape...just some surface rust to get rid of. gotta get rid of all this old insulation and see what's hiding under there.. guess i can get rid of all this too..probably gonna take the bottom section out of the trunk anyways removed some of that old insulation and found some more work needing to be done.. gotta remove the canister to get the rest of the old insulation out and start cleaning/welding
If the stock Fiero rubber mounts do not hold up Rodney Dickman sells nice poly ones that will work. I have seen a few southern cars where no salt has ever sen the car and still had a rotted battery box, that and the fuel filter clamp and the coolant tube clamps seem to rot any ways
If the stock Fiero rubber mounts do not hold up Rodney Dickman sells nice poly ones that will work. I have seen a few southern cars where no salt has ever sen the car and still had a rotted battery box, that and the fuel filter clamp and the coolant tube clamps seem to rot any ways
I am hoping that the stock rubber will hold up with the added support of 2 dogbones up top. I decided on the rubber over the poly since the balance shaft has been removed and i wanted to cut down as much vibration as possible. The cradle will be solid mounted also via aluminum mounts or made up on my own. Gonna get rid of what rust is there and paint the engine bay. Everything needs to be removed from the drivers side so that the frame can be fixed where the rear cradle mounts on that side
Went out for about an hour or so earlier today and worked at the car. Got the insulation and canister removed from the left side of the engine bay and this is what i found...little more rotted in the spot where the little hole was than i first thought, but not nothing that i can't deal with. removed the piping off the back wall as well. Also got rid of the insulation off the right side as well. Cleans it up a lot nicer removed the carpet from the trunk as well to see what i was in for there also. Found a couple surprises but nothing too major. this bottom corner has seen better days, but I am gonna lose the bottom protion of the trunk anyway. I plan to cut it flush with the ledge. Is that what is normally done?
I cut the trunk flush with the ledge on my turbo 3500 build, I think it's much more practical that way.
Ya that's what i was thinking. Not like i am gonna be carrying much of anything around with me really anyways. Definitely more room to run the exhaust easier.
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I am not sure how much further upward and outward i can bend the collector on the header before i run into problems with it hitting or being too close to the firewall. Does anyone know how much room there is between the block and the firewall on a 3800 s/c roughly??
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Hopefully get it back tomorrow and get it bolted on.
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