Ok, guys, I know this has been hammered before,,, But what is the lowest cost, lightest weight brake upgrade involving calipers and rotors for an 88. I would prefer not to redrill rotors but could if needed. I need to do at least two cars at this time. Anybody tried lighter calipers? although I am looking for an affordable alternative since $$ is always an issue. I WILL be doing the 96 Blazer Brake Booster conversion as well. I plan on buying all new calipers as well as rotors for these upgrades... Thanks!l
Yeah, and what updrage will fit behind factory 15" wheels on my Formula? Once you go down the road to big brakes it means bigger wheels too which = more money.
Something I haven't done yet myself but probably will someday is the West Coast Fiero brake upgrades using the stock 88 calipers and either Corvette or Viper rotors.They have a 13" Viper set for $742 and a 12" Corvette set for only $440. I think this is probably the best bang for the buck IMO. Much larger surface area with the same pedal feel. It's just new rotors, concentric rings and the caliper offset brackets. Only downside is they won't fit within stock wheels, necessitating new wheels at the same time. That's not a bad thing but it just adds to the expense if you are doing it all at once. I know there are lots of other kits out there but as far as bang for the buck, the 12" Vette setup seems hard to beat for only $440. If you want to replace the calipers too, well then I don't think we are talking inexpensive anymore. Of course everyones ideas of what is considered inexpensive varies widely!
In summary, the s-10 ($100 upgrade) is the very best bang. Within the lace wheels is tougher: the 12" Vette would be next best but it will not fit inside the stock '88 front wheels and, depending on whose adapters you use, may not fit anywhere without larger wheels.
Add stainless steel brake lines to 88 brakes and your Blazer brake booster will be a significant upgrade.
IMO, you should do one set of modifications at a time. The brake booster might be what you need. If not, then you can always upgrade afterwards. Buying a bunch of parts up front might be overkill.
My 13" brake kit for the 88's is hard to beat. It doesn't have the rotor/lower a-arm interferance issues of the 12" C4 setup and is the lowest priced 13" kit on the market. I typically market the kit with drilled/slotted/zinc rotors for $640 shipped (which is about $100 less than the other 13" brake kit with plain rotors), but there are sales from time to time to help lower that cost (currently $75 off till the end of March) and you can always opt for the plain rotors. With the current sale, you can buy one of my 13" brake kits with plain rotors for $490 shipped.
My goal in developing this kit was a clean sheet approach to find the best fitting rotor for the 88’s that will maximize braking force by increasing the diameter of the rotor while keeping the rest of the brake system stock to ensure proper brake bias and parking brake function. Some of the key benefits of this kit are:
• Use of stock calipers, brake hoses and parking brake cables keeps cost to a minimum. • Stock brake bias and parking brake function retained. • 25% increase in brake rotor diameter for improved visual impact behind 17+” wheels vs. 15% with the 12" C4 setup. • 29% increase in brake system mechanical advantage due to caliper being further from wheel center vs. 18% with the 12" C4 setup. • 20% increase in rotor/pad surface area to reduce potential for brake fade vs. 9% with the 12" C4 setup. • Available in Drilled/Slotted w/Zinc coating to minimize additional weight and improve appearance. • No interference issues between the rotor/caliper and the front suspension a-arms when used with stock ball joints. NOTE: When installed with Rodneys 1" lowering ball joints and lowering springs, there have been reports of slight rubbing. If installing this combination of parts, it would be best to clearance the lower a-arm nose slightly to avoid any clearance issues. • Lowest price of any 13” brake kit on the market today.
If you can do some basic machine work, a 12" corvette swap can be done for the cost of the rotors. Pretty hard to beat that price, and my plain non/slotted drilled Vette rotors with OEM type (quality but not performance) pads give me plenty of stopping power. Biggest limit on my braking right now is lack of abs.
Indeed! I have this kit. I have had exactly "zero" issues with it. It was engineered to fit, and to work, and it does.
I was in the process of installing the Corvette kit, until I saw what a clusterfest it was. (Also had the "caliper into the arm" interference.) I removed it and waited for fieroguru's kit.
EBC street race pads would be the best bang for the buck.(No, they do not require heating up) Yellows if you want all out performance, Reds if you are concerned with dust.
You do not need larger heavier rotors that increase the rotating mass, killing performance. They are purely for looks.
EBC street race pads would be the best bang for the buck.(No, they do not require heating up) Yellows if you want all out performance, Reds if you are concerned with dust.
You do not need larger heavier rotors that increase the rotating mass, killing performance. They are purely for looks.
Yeah, I learned the "bigger is not always better" lesson the hard way too. The stock system in proper working order with good pads and maybe a better booster and they are fine.
This is ALWAYS an emotional subject. You have not told us just what you want to get from upgrading your brakes. Is it reduced fade? Cosmetics? Reduced pedal pressure to achieve lockup? The answers to best bang for the buck really are different depending on what you want to accomplish.
Just remember: if you can lock your brakes up currently, NONE of the upgrades will reduce your minimum stopping distance....that is limited by your tires. Reducing pedal pressure increases your ability to modulate your brakes right at the edge of lockup (at least for most people) and that is the point of most of the brake conversions for '88's And that is the whole point of the booster change and the larger rotors.
So, let us know what you want from your brakes so we can better give you our opinions.
It looks like I am going to purchase a set of Lebaron rotors and see if I can make an adapter bracket for stock calipers. Weight is a concern since I would like to think that handling is a primary consideration. Cost is a large consideration also. Maybe i can come up with something new????
Install the best pads you can afford,, the 88 fiero has great brakes,,people have a tendancy to use cheap pads ,& the biggest problem with Fiero brakes is cheap customer ,cheap pads cheap dangerous stops install Hawk street pads ,,wagner thermo quiets ,,carbomets ,just make sure your rotor are in good shape & all lines are not clogged install the pads only on the front first !! I recommend the thermoquiets with straight smooth rotors after you see the diff in stopping power than add the same brand to the rear they have all round great pad qualities... you can get a rebate on the thermoquiets from major part stores look for it, they are a bargain with the rebate !! if you are not satisfied with top quality pads then break the cobwebs off the credit card & go with Fiero guru,,a known quantity that WORKS,with forum recommenders
I agree, start with a really nice set of pads, if that doesn't do it, do the booster upgrade (the "$100 brake upgrade"), it's money extremely well spent. If you still aren't satisfied, then by all means get larger rotors. Best part, is that if you do the pads and booster first, you can always drop some coin and do the rotors later.
The pads I have are Porterfields..... full race. Drat! I went to O'Reilly's to get the rotors. They were not in stock. So I went to Advance with the O'reilly part number.... They gave me the wrong rotor. O'Reilly does a nice job and has all of the dimensions of the rotor on the page with the part number. Advance does not. Any way I got the wrong rotor... Will try again tommorrow.
[This message has been edited by Mark A. Klein (edited 03-17-2013).]
with a little modification you can install any pad that fits a Willwood Dynalite caliper. I use Hawk HP Plus for autocrossing and track days. Great initial bite and they don't need a whole lot of heat and are kind to the rotors. I get them from Pegasus Racing but they are available from many vendors. The size is HB100 If you take the bridge of the caliper off and grind it a bit the pads fit great. You need about 1/16" more than the stock pad. The 2 hole for the pins are in the exact spot but need to be drilled out a bit too. It then opens up the available options for us racing folk. This is for the 88 only.
with a little modification you can install any pad that fits a Willwood Dynalite caliper. I use Hawk HP Plus for autocrossing and track days. Great initial bite and they don't need a whole lot of heat and are kind to the rotors. I get them from Pegasus Racing but they are available from many vendors. The size is HB100 If you take the bridge of the caliper off and grind it a bit the pads fit great. You need about 1/16" more than the stock pad. The 2 hole for the pins are in the exact spot but need to be drilled out a bit too. It then opens up the available options for us racing folk. This is for the 88 only.
This is GREAT information! Thanks!
I'd give you a +, but I already have.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-17-2013).]
I have been asked what my intentions were... Better brakes of course, affordable conversion, light weight to minimize handling change, and the ability to use just about any wheel since I don't yet know what I am going to end of with. So... It is between the 12 " vette and a 11.25 LeBaron conversion. Due to weight and minimal work required I am leaning towards an 88 LeBaron conversion using the 88 calipers since they seem to be reasonably light, and we know they work. It appears I will have to clock the caliper to achieve the correct pad diameter. I will probably have to shim the caliper halves since they are so close to being too tight on the rotor. It looks as if the brake drum inside the LeBaron rotor will rub and have to be cut back for clearance and the inside diameter will have to be honed to fit on the ub properly. The question is this more work than redrillling the 100 m on 5 hub and making concentric rings as would be required for the vette rotor. Both require about the same work on the caliper adapter....
Mark, sounds like a good plan. Fieroguru obviously has a great setup for sale. Although, for best "bang for a buck", I'm partial to my project: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/090523.html Less than $200 invested. It could probably be done using the 88 calipers for more savings.
It looks as if the rotors I will use will be 1991 LeBaron 15" wheel fronts and rears. Advance auto part numbersYH141533 AND YH141534 . The front rotor will go ont he back and the back will go on the front. 88 factory calipers will be used all around. All rotors will be clocked upwards just enought to clear the old caliper mounts. The rear YH141533's will need the center bore slightly enlargened to fit over the hub, and the YH141534's will need a very small locating ring on the rear of the car. The drum part of the rotor (parking brake) willneed to be cut back very slighlty to not rub on the spindle mount. All calipers will need a slight shim for the calipers and pads to clear the rotor width. The rear mount will be a simple plate that will only raise and clock the caliper. The front mount will require more planning and maybe a slight offset. Unfortunately the rotos are less expensive if they are shipped to your home. So.... I am returning the rotors I bought and the new ones will ship directly to my home. This will slow things down a bit, but It is very cold here now anyway.... I will put up pictures after I receive the new rotors since I do have to modify the new front (rear) rotors.... Confused yet?
Out of curiosity, why are you not using the same rotors all the way around?
IIRC, the locating ring is only .15mm thick and shim stock is available in that thickness. If you just use shim stock is any machining necessary to the rotors?
Since .15mm is only about .006 in, is one really required, or is that too much run out for good balance?
Larry
[This message has been edited by imacflier (edited 03-20-2013).]
i finished a 87 rotor job using a 06 pontiac montana rotor . i used oem calipers Now, the caliper on this vehicle has supports for the rotary torque reaction on the caliper when the brakes are on. why is this ignored in these installs. all i see is the caliper being supported inward by the pin attachments. not so with the 87. it has stops to prevent the caliper from moving with the torque reaction.
Out of curiosity, why are you not using the same rotors all the way around?
IIRC, the locating ring is only .15mm thick and shim stock is available in that thickness. If you just use shim stock is any machining necessary to the rotors?
Since .15mm is only about .006 in, is one really required, or is that too much run out for good balance?
I would rather use the front rotors all around, but they will not fit over the front hubs. I would rather not turn down the hubs. The offset is actually better than the rear rotors. Since the rear rotors will fit over the front hubs, I will use them. ( they are also .150 larger in outside diameter ) And yes for balance purposes I will use a concentric ring for the rear of the car.
The other question I was asked was if I realised that the calipers WILL NOT fit over the wider width rotors... Thank God that the rotors unbolt and seperate the piston area from the bridge. This is the shim I was referring to on the calipers to correct this problem.
[This message has been edited by Mark A. Klein (edited 03-22-2013).]
I believe that that 1mm difference in the size of the centering ring and the rotor is tolerable.
This combination would result in NO machining of wear parts required, just the caliper adapters and (maybe) a spacer for the caliper to deal with the increased rotor thickness.
I think this sounds cool. 11 1/4" brakes that would fit under stock 15" rims on an 88. Yaya! Make this happen! This is would be great. Keep up the good work.
2000-2004 MK4 Jetta's have a 5x100 bolt pattern and you can get coated rotors fairly decently priced for them and they are made from high quality German steel. They are also 280mm in diameter & there may be a 288mm version as well for VR6 jetta. I don't have any idea on their thickness-yet.
I hope the VW has the better fit! So many more brake options than Lebaron. By the way it will be the front rotor as the rears are un-vented like pre-88 fieros.
My oppologies for skimming and missing the whole shimming the 88 calipers thing.
VW rotors have a tendancy to be very flat, the hub is very short
The 280mm (11") VW rotor is 36.7mm (1.44") thick from wheel to the back surface of the rotor, this can cause issues with the caliper needing to be close to the inside surface of the wheel. It is a 21.9mm (.86") thick disc is like the lebaron. The VW rotor also probably will not fit over the 88's front hubs. They have an unusually large OD on the hub flange.
The Fiero's rotor is 265mm (10.43") in diameter and 47.5mm (1.87") thick in total, so you would have to find a way to push the caliper outward for the diameter increase, about a quarter inch, and almost a half inch toward the wheel for the offset decrease. This might not be possible with the 88 calipers and stock wheels. And, it only gains you a little over 1/2" in rotor diameter. Not worth the effort by any standard.
By that justification, is it worth doing the lebaron rotors either? If you are going to upgrade the brakes, it would be worth it to go 12" or better to justify the effort for the return. Its the difference between a 1/4" increase of a lever that is already 5-1/4" long for the VW, or a 3/8" increase from 5-1/4" for the Lebaron. Even 12" brakes only take you from 5-1/4" to 6. Which even then is still only about a 14% increase in torque capacity. As opposed to a 5% increase with the VW rotor, or a 7% increase with the Lebaron rotors, Which also add 3 lbs to each wheel. You're better off still with either doing the booster, or still, different pads - at least if you want "Best Bang for the Buck", that still fits under stock rims. Only once you lose the stock rim requirement, then larger rotors become a potential place for improvement. Under stock wheels, you will never get a rotor diameter that is WORTH doing on the 88's. Also, the 88's front wheels don't fit over Lebaron rotor based brakes anyway, they have a different offset that might hit the calipers. I am not sure how that will play out with 88 calipers though.
On 84-87 however, going to vented rotors is a huge improvement, and going from 9.7" rotors to 11.27" Lebaron rotors is a massive change of braking capacity! And you can keep them under the stock GT wheels for these years.
Thanks fierobsessed, this was just the input I needed. Valuable, informative & backed up by knowledge. I will do a booster upgrade, new rotors and I have a set of EBC yellow pads ready to go on.
