nope...4.9 still running strong ...sorry to disappoint... you guys.
Don't want to hear about it blowing up... do want to hear about it running right.
quote
Originally posted by MaxCubes:
At this point I obviously can't proceed much further until I can change the clutch to a stonger unit. Would a Spec stage two be good enough?
... This also gives me the oportuninty to switch from full ghetto tuning.... to semi ghetto... Today I ordered a BEGi fmu and an MSD btm... ( today was payday! )
If the semi ghetto tuning stuff isn't good enough... then I will have to go high class ( rob a bank first )... and get the Dynamic EFI stuff and retune my 7730 ecm (cause thats what I am already running anyway)
p.s.... thanks for the link ericjon262 +++
I'm using a SPEC stage 3. Whether this clutch chatters or not seems to be hit or miss. Mine chatters... a LOT.
I think you'll find that if you add up the costs of the stop-gap things you use trying to avoid buying the right hardware, you'd have been better off buying the right hardware in the beginning.
The emulator for the 7730 (I linked above) is a very capable, very affordable solution. Keep that in mind. There has also been significant open-source development of boosted code masks for the 7730. Developers have been working on taking the robust multi-cell fuel trim algorithms from the $8D (Camarbird TPI V8), adding the boost control from the $8F (turbo Grand Prix) and other capabilities to make some pretty powerful engine management built around the 7730. Google "boosted AUJP", for example.
I'm using a SPEC stage 3. Whether this clutch chatters or not seems to be hit or miss. Mine chatters... a LOT.
I think you'll find that if you add up the costs of the stop-gap things you use trying to avoid buying the right hardware, you'd have been better off buying the right hardware in the beginning.
The emulator for the 7730 (I linked above) is a very capable, very affordable solution. Keep that in mind. There has also been significant open-source development of boosted code masks for the 7730. Developers have been working on taking the robust multi-cell fuel trim algorithms from the $8D (Camarbird TPI V8), adding the boost control from the $8F (turbo Grand Prix) and other capabilities to make some pretty powerful engine management built around the 7730. Google "boosted AUJP", for example.
Its been a couple of years since Ive seen(saw?) anyone working on $8B(oosted), where are these devs working on this code nowadays?
To get thinner head gaskets, you may have to make them out of dead soft copper sheets.... Some think this makes the best head gaskets ever!
Copper head gaskets are pretty serious stuff... MUCH more of a PITA to deal with than conventional, MLS or even simple metal shim head gaskets.
A friend has a naturally aspirated stroker Miata engine with SCE copper head gaskets. In other engines, like some iron block BMW's, they're used with metallic o-rings for really high boost applications. The PITA part is that they need sealer sprayed on both sides to be sure they don't leak coolant. Removing the head after the sealant has been heat cycled usually mangles the copper gasket; thus it needs to be replaced every time the head comes off. With good luck, that's not very often.
Copper head gaskets are pretty serious stuff... MUCH more of a PITA to deal with than conventional, MLS or even simple metal shim head gaskets.
A friend has a naturally aspirated stroker Miata engine with SCE copper head gaskets. In other engines, like some iron block BMW's, they're used with metallic o-rings for really high boost applications. The PITA part is that they need sealer sprayed on both sides to be sure they don't leak coolant. Removing the head after the sealant has been heat cycled usually mangles the copper gasket; thus it needs to be replaced every time the head comes off. With good luck, that's not very often.
Last I looked into them, they were cheap(relative to MLS) for custom sets.
Well, Im a pretty low budget kind of guy... Not familiar with tuning ecms at all. I'm going to try tuning semi ghetto style with the MSD btm and BEGi fmu and air fuel ratio gauge and wide band O2. .... especially since I just purchased these items
....If I can't get it tuned right...I will have to look into ECM tuning
....But... I would like to give out my thanks to all the input and advice from all of you. If I end up blowing up my engine...I will replace it....and take all this feedback more seriously... and rethink my setup
I'd be more worried about level then clocked right, you can retime the distributor to correct for it being off a few degrees, if it's not flat though. you're SOL.
------------------ we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
My info's a couple of years old, so they might not be anymore. I thought the product was at a pretty high level of maturity. Was that not the case?
OK thats where I saw it too, hasnt been anything new since 2010. Last I read the author of the code either abandoned the project or never released it to the public. I would LOVE to get my hands on a fully functional $8B since ive been using S_AUJPV4 the last couple of years.
I'd be more worried about level then clocked right, you can retime the distributor to correct for it being off a few degrees, if it's not flat though. you're SOL.
The cap has to be clocked right in reference to the distributor.... Turning the whole distributor will not fix an incorrectly clocked cap. Thats why when you install a cap... it has a tooth that doesn't allow it to turn it once it is mounted to the distributor. If the cap is not referenced correctly...(If the rotor is not pointing to one of the terminals inside the distributor cap when spark occurs... then there will be no where for the spark to jump to. (spark will arch somewhere else) When spark occurs...The rotor must be pointing to one of the eight terminals inside of the distributor. Adjustment of timing... advanced or retarded.... is done by turning the whole distributor... not the cap alone.
Rotor height in relation to the terminals inside the cap is important also. ...but since the terminals are about a 1/4 inch tall there is room for error... as long as the rotor is within this margin...but the closer to center, the better ...There is a little vertical shaft play is most distributors.
The gap from the rotor pointer to distributor terminals is also important ...it should be about .015 to .030 ... if closer it may hit when spinning ... if much wider, spark may jump elsewhere.
This is how I arranged the firing order for the cadillac 4.9.
Not quite the same as a chevy....(4.9 distributor spins counter clockwise)
Odd numbers go to the front bank of the engine... and even numbers go to the rear. . . . . I posted more information about this cap conversion in a new topic in case others are interested. ...Although Im sure it is more work than most people would be willing to do.
[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 04-23-2013).]
Have you looked at your ability to make a franken-stributor?
IE, use the Cadillac "stem"/shell that goes into the block, and the gear and shaft, with the Vortec distributor baseplate...
The 2.8 V6 distributor has a cast stem/shell with an aluminum baseplate staked to the casting. You may be able to use the Vortec baseplate with the Caddy stem and build a franken-stributor without epoxy.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-24-2013).]
Have you looked at your ability to make a franken-stributor?
IE, use the Cadillac "stem"/shell that goes into the block, and the gear and shaft, with the Vortec distributor baseplate...
The 2.8 V6 distributor has a cast stem/shell with an aluminum plate staked to the casting. You may be able to use the Vortec baseplate with the Caddy stem and build a franken-stributor without epoxy.
and off the shelf wear parts too.
@ Maxcubes
Good call, I didn't think that through quite as far.
------------------ we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
Yesterday I added the MSD timing controller for boost and a BEGi fuel management unit that rises fuel pressure as boost increases. Both were pretty easy to install.
With these I was able to set my base timing and fuel pressure back to stock specs... and the car idles and runs much better now.
Unfortunately can't floor it anymore. Clutch is slipping badly at wide open throttle.
Will have to wait until payday to get a stronger clutch.
So today I had nothing to do... so I went ahead and ported the combustion chambers on a set of extra 4.9 heads that Ive had laying around.
With lowering stock compression, my hope is that I can run higher than 5 psi boost
I liquid measured the stock chambers... and they came out at a tight 48cc's
After a long day, and looking like a coal miner afterward!... I got all chambers opened up to 55cc's.
Which should yield about 8.75 compression ratio.... down considerably from 9.5 stock
I did this by removing sharp edges in the chambers and deshrouding around the valves
Is there anyway you could post a list of all the parts you needed and an estimate of the prices? Just to put it all down in one ared for all of us that are hoping to one day follow in your footsteps.
Water injection will cure all your problems! In my 2.5 SOHC 8 valve turbo Mopar I could not pass 20psi without sounding like a Coca-Cola bottle with marbles inside, even with race fuel. Installed a system from Snow Performance (back in the day when it was his hobby) and viola! I was running 35psi on pump gas with no knocking. And mine was not a drag car, it was a road racing car. Never blew a head gasket either. If I remember right I started at 250whp and 275wtorque. After the water injection, increase boost to 35psi and advance the timing (yes advance) it laid down 420whp and 475wtorque. Torque was intoxicating. You are doing a great job! My hat off to you!!
Is there anyway you could post a list of all the parts you needed and an estimate of the prices? Just to put it all down in one ared for all of us that are hoping to one day follow in your footsteps.
Again soooo soo cool!
So far, these are the parts and prices for my conversion....
Allante intake manifold...........................................................................$30.........junkyard Allante injector rails................................................................................$20.........junkyard M90 supercharger(series II)...................................................................$35.........junkyard Gen 5 M90 supercharger(series III).......................................................$300.......ebay 1/4 inch metal plates to make plenum...................................................$90........lowes Welding rods, grinding wheels, drill bits.................................................$60........harbor freight tools 3 core aluminum radiator.......................................................................$200......ebay Allante steel rocker rails.........................................................................$150..... ebay 3 inch undersize supercharger pulley....................................................$90........pulley boys Supercharger pulley puller/installer........................................................$85........ebay LT1 valve springs...................................................................................$25........junkyard Longer belt ( 845K6 )..............................................................................$30........autozone 2002 northstar throttle............................................................................$25.........junkyard 1/4 inch metal plate to make throttle adapter.........................................$10........lowes 4 inch pipe for air intake ducting.............................................................$30........ebay 4 inch rubber couplers............................................................................$30........ebay Long cone air filter..................................................................................$40........autozone Various gaskets,....................................................................................$80.........autozone Various nuts, bolts, vacuum fittings, hoses, clamps.............................$80.........lowes/autozone Colder spark plugs.................................................................................$30.........autozone MSD boost timing box............................................................................$175.......ebay fuel pump from 97 chevy pickup............................................................$25.........junkyard adjustable fuel regulator.........................................................................$60.........ebay BEGi rising rate regulator.......................................................................$160......ebay LT1 24lb injectors...................................................................................$30........junkyard Many hours of labor I charged myself....................................................$0..........maxcubes
Water injection will cure all your problems! In my 2.5 SOHC 8 valve turbo Mopar I could not pass 20psi without sounding like a Coca-Cola bottle with marbles inside, even with race fuel. Installed a system from Snow Performance (back in the day when it was his hobby) and viola! I was running 35psi on pump gas with no knocking. And mine was not a drag car, it was a road racing car. Never blew a head gasket either. If I remember right I started at 250whp and 275wtorque. After the water injection, increase boost to 35psi and advance the timing (yes advance) it laid down 420whp and 475wtorque. Torque was intoxicating. You are doing a great job! My hat off to you!!
Thanks ....if preigniton continues to be a problem, I may go water injection
Originally posted by MaxCubes: So far, these are the parts and prices for my conversion.... Allante intake manifold...........................................................................$30.........junkyard Allante injector rails................................................................................$20.........junkyard M90 supercharger(series II)...................................................................$35.........junkyard
Wow. So much cheaper than the junkyards here. This thread is awesome. Love the V8 sound, but want the 3800sc performance... Now I could have both? Sch-weeeeet...
Finished up pocket porting the extra 4.9 heads. ... installed new valves ... and installed the stiffer LT1 valve springs (from 1996 camaro Z28) They fit great! These should prevent valve float in my boosted engine
Had the day off today.... so I went ahead and lowered the engine/transmission assembly from the car. ...unbolted the tranny from engine... and the clutch looked worn and burned up. ...So I went ahead and ordered a new clutch set.... a spec stage 3.... Hopefully this clutch will hold up! . . Sometime next week l should have it all together again... and see how runs... now that I have the fuel and timing modifiers installed.
Finished clutch job a couple of days ago.... Spec stage III installed.... that was a pain.
Todays work was much more fun.... tuning the 4.9 for boost!!
.... The MSD boost timing box, and Begi FMU worked out great.
After getting the fuel and timing set right, the car ran very strong at 5 psi at 5000 rpm (with the stock 3.8 supercharger pulley) After playing with the FMU.... the best fuel pressure setting was about 60 psi at 5000 rpm The MSD adjustment dial was set at dead middle in its adjustment range...no knock at this setting
So I figured at 60 psi fuel pressure and only 5 psi boost...I had room for more boost.
So I reinstalled the undersized 3 inch supercharger pulley.
Restarted the car and first thing I noticed as I got on the throttle was that boost kicked in much quicker at a lower rpm.... ...and the supercharger whine was also much noisier again.
As soon as the throttle was mashed... there was boost...over 3psi at 2000rpm, 5 psi at 3500 rpm... and climbing over 7 psi past 5500 ....The car was very fast.... definitely the quickest it has ever been. I didn't need to adjust the FMU...With the increased boost the FMU raised fuel pressure to 72 psi at 5000 rpm... ....probably close to the max pressure the stock injectors can handle. I could hear a little pinging and knocking at lower rpms with the smaller pulley When I adjusted the MSD to compensate, I noticed a sight decrease in acceleration. ....So tossed in some octane booster and this helped a little. Another thing I noticed with the additional torque gained from adding the smaller pulley... was that the clutch would slip at lower rpms (maybe I need to let the new clutch break in properly)
I probably need to install my modified heads so that I won't have to run super high octane gas. ... along with the stiffer valve springs....to make sure there is no valve float
[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 06-07-2013).]
Another thing I noticed with the additional torque gained from adding the smaller pulley... was that the clutch would slip at lower rpms (maybe I need to let the new clutch break in properly)
Yes. The SPEC's do need to break in. I didn't with mine and now it chatters like crazy. However, given the option between getting my new engine correctly broken in and getting my new clutch correctly broken in, I chose the engine.
You need to get a datalogging capability and get some dyno time. You never really know what you have until you do.
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