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Supercharging the cadillac 4.9 with Allante intake and Gen V M90 supercharger by MaxCubes
Started on: 03-20-2013 03:13 AM
Replies: 311 (27957 views)
Last post by: Will on 04-03-2019 08:55 AM
MaxCubes
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Report this Post06-15-2013 02:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MaxCubes:

pictures...






Auction ends today (Saturday evening)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/All...em232bc9e040&vxp=mtr

you will not find a better deal
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Report this Post07-08-2013 03:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
update


... so I finally got the LT1 valve springs installed along with the Allante steel rocker arm supports.
That was a lot of work.... but worth it....

This mod was the ticket !!!.... engine now pulls hard to 6000 rpm without issue.

....unlike before when power started to drop off after 4000rpm...
....it now pulls stronger and stronger all the way to the rev limiter set at 6000rpm

engine still holding together
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Report this Post07-08-2013 06:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice!

We're looking forward to visual documentation, of course.

Were there any issues with the springs? No coil bind or anything?
What year LT1 did the springs come from? Did you have to do any additional head work?

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-08-2013).]

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Report this Post07-09-2013 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Nice!

We're looking forward to visual documentation, of course.

Were there any issues with the springs? No coil bind or anything?
What year LT1 did the springs come from? Did you have to do any additional head work?

Thanks!



Just simply installed the LT1 springs on the 4.9.... no head work, everything else is bone stock and unmodified.

I got the valve springs from a 1996 Z28 from a local junkyard.

Will post some more pics and maybe some more video soon
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Report this Post07-09-2013 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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I am working on getting my Fiero in better shape before the next 1/4 mile run

Replacing broken steering column, replacing bad shocks, getting my gauges working properly, new tires, etc
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Report this Post08-01-2013 01:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post08-01-2013 02:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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OK... here is the latest

I got new shocks and some new extra wide sticky tires for the rear
.... hoping to get firmly in the 12 second range on the quarter mile....


No doubt the new shocks and tires helped with traction.... tire traction is no longer a problem....
... down right violent launches...I'm surprised the transmission hasn't busted yet

But now I am having issues with the clutch slipping again after just a couple of launches

The Spec stage 3 clutch seems to be the weak link now

Wondering now if I should have gotten the stage 4.... or maybe the Centerforce instead?
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Report this Post08-01-2013 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How well broken-in was your SPEC?
They definitely don't get to peak holding capability until fully broken in.
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Report this Post08-02-2013 12:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

How well broken-in was your SPEC?
They definitely don't get to peak holding capability until fully broken in.


Yea, still kinda new... a couple months.
Hopefully just needs to beak in some more
Not looking forward to doing another clutch job
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Report this Post08-05-2013 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Photo above shows steel rocker bridges?

I put a hurting on my SPEC stage 3 a couple of times when it and my engine were brand new. However, with the choice being to get my engine correctly broken in OR get my clutch correctly broken in, I chose my engine. Now the clutch is holding ~305 RWTQ very well... but you probably have more than that.
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Report this Post08-06-2013 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea above picture is a before shot

here is a picture of the difference between a 4.9 spring and an LT1 spring


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Report this Post08-06-2013 01:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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Stiffer valve springs installed...



on the front bank, a valve fell all the way in the cylinder,
so I had to remove the intake so that I could pull the valve back into its guide with some needle nose pliers via the intake port...

[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 11-05-2013).]

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Report this Post08-06-2013 01:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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Finished shot.... I decided to change over to the "smooth" Allante valve covers also

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Report this Post08-06-2013 01:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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Spec stage 3 clutch is still slipping.... been driving my fiero daily.

Clutch works fine all day.... But as soon as give it full throttle it slips again... very frustrating

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Report this Post08-06-2013 02:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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Doing some clutch research....

I'm liking the design of the Centerforce pressure plate.

It uses counterweights embedded in the splines that use centrifugal energy to apply more force to the disc

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Report this Post08-06-2013 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Zac88GTClick Here to visit Zac88GT's HomePageSend a Private Message to Zac88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MaxCubes:

Doing some clutch research....

I'm liking the design of the Centerforce pressure plate.

It uses counterweights embedded in the splines that use centrifugal energy to apply more force to the disc



They work great on a lot of front engine rear drive applications, but on pretty much all transaxle applications (fiero included) there isn't enough room in the bell housing for the weights so they don't use them. The spec stage 3 is a much stronger clutch than the centerforce. I think it's just going to take some time for your clutch to properly break in. Did you have the flywheel machined before installing the clutch?

[This message has been edited by Zac88GT (edited 08-06-2013).]

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Report this Post08-07-2013 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the CenterFarce 201502 clutch beside my Northstar at first. It was marginal. The SPEC St3 is MUCH more capable of dealing with abuse. It chatters more than the CF, though.
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Report this Post08-08-2013 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This morning I decided to check all my fluid levels on my Fiero....

.... and noticed the oil level in the transmission is a little bit lower than it was about a month ago.

Perhaps it is leaking a little on the clutch disc?

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Report this Post09-24-2013 12:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well here is the latest on my supercharged FrankenFiero 4.9....

My slipping clutch issue is getting marginally better grip as lately I have been driving a little less aggressively... perhaps allowing it to properly break in.

My alternator went bad for the third and hopefully last time.... I relocated the upper engine mount to a lower position and is no longer bolted next to the alternator...

[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 03-11-2015).]

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Will
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Report this Post09-24-2013 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why would that affect whether your alternator goes bad or not?

Have you been using reman alternators?
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Report this Post09-25-2013 02:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Why would that affect whether your alternator goes bad or not?

Have you been using reman alternators?


The case would flex from stress and the alternator would start making a grinding noise
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Report this Post09-25-2013 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think I asked this before. Is that top brace hard mounted or does it have rubber between it?
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Report this Post09-26-2013 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MaxCubes:


The case would flex from stress and the alternator would start making a grinding noise


Ahh, you're fragging bearings rather than electrics.
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Report this Post10-06-2013 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are you still happy with the Begi unit? Does it hold the afr's steady or require constant attention?
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Report this Post10-07-2013 02:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by arte444:

I think I asked this before. Is that top brace hard mounted or does it have rubber between it?


Hard mounted
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Report this Post10-07-2013 02:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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quote
Originally posted by Will:


Ahh, you're fragging bearings rather than electrics.


Exactly
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Report this Post10-07-2013 02:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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quote
Originally posted by joshua riedl:

Are you still happy with the Begi unit? Does it hold the afr's steady or require constant attention?


It works OK.... My biggest complaint is that it doesn't bring up the fuel pressure fast enough for a roots supercharger.


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Report this Post10-07-2013 03:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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The latest....

The clutch is still problematic

Sometimes it seems to hold ok.... and then it will start slipping again

something is wrong......Its been near 6 months since I installed the spec stage 3

I don't think it needs more time to "break in"

..... Looks like I'm going to drop the cradle assembly again

I figure something is leaking oil on the clutch... or maybe I shoulda got a stage 3 plus or higher


What a pain...... I can see why the fastest Fieros are automatics!

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Report this Post10-07-2013 08:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a 2+ that didn't hold a 3400 and went right to a 3+ for my 3900. This one will slip too if I try a burn out. If it gets ahold at launch it seems to hold fine. The slipping may have something to do with borrowing it to my brother in law for a week.
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Report this Post10-09-2013 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well since I'm going to be dropping the cradle assembly again to mess with the clutch...
I have decided to go ahead and swap out the cylinder heads for the ported ones that I spent so much time on a few months ago....






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Report this Post10-09-2013 01:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good luck getting the bolts out without having to repair the threads in the block. I don't envy you that job.
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Report this Post10-09-2013 02:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Good luck getting the bolts out without having to repair the threads in the block. I don't envy you that job.


Yea, that's why I haven't done this yet...because of that possibility.

However, given that my engine is corrosion free ( dry and salt free here)... I figure the risk is low

..... When I pulled off the heads from the doner engine (the ones that I ported)... I inspected the head bolts

None had any aluminum in the threads.

[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 10-09-2013).]

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Report this Post10-13-2013 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How did you end up running the pcv? For the lean issue did you adjust the rising rate onset and it just didnt help? I've read that it can be adjusted to bring on the rising rate at a low vacuum. I'm actually in the process of supercharging my s10 so I've been reading this thread a lot. Pretty sure I'm going to go the same route with the msd btm and begi. My theory is if I install 33lb injector with the fuel pressure around 35psi the stock tune should be fairly unaffected and leave me a lot of room to tune with the begi.
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Report this Post10-14-2013 04:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by joshua riedl:

How did you end up running the pcv? For the lean issue did you adjust the rising rate onset and it just didnt help? I've read that it can be adjusted to bring on the rising rate at a low vacuum. I'm actually in the process of supercharging my s10 so I've been reading this thread a lot. Pretty sure I'm going to go the same route with the msd btm and begi. My theory is if I install 33lb injector with the fuel pressure around 35psi the stock tune should be fairly unaffected and leave me a lot of room to tune with the begi.


I am running PCV... The PCV valve is factory integrated in the supercharger. I ran a hose from one of the 4.9 valve covers to the port under the supercharger for the PCV
.... The PCV gases need to go into the intake after the throttle and BEFORE the compressor on a roots supercharger.

The problem with the fuel pressure lag isn't that the rising rate regulator reacts to slow... The regulator restricts return fuel immediately when boost occurs like it should.
... the problem is that it takes time for the fuel pump to build pressure to the desired PSI...
Roots superchargers build boost IMMIDIATELY when you floor it ... unlike centrifugal superchargers and turbochargers.
A higher volume aftermarket fuel pump may reduce the fuel pressure lag time...and/or a fuel pump voltage booster that bumps up voltage to the fuel pump as boost increases.
Both of these items are expensive... that's why I haven't done these yet

I almost don't need the MSD btm... I am running about 7-8psi boost. I have the MSD set at a very low rate of ignition retard when I am running regular gas.
...I don't need any ignition retard when I add octane booster.

Your theory of larger injectors with lower base pressure is a good one..... The problem will be getting the fuel pressure up as fast as boost...
.....are you going to use a ROOTS supercharger?

[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 10-14-2013).]

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Report this Post10-14-2013 05:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MaxCubes

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I have three aftermarket gauges that are helping me tune this combo


A vacuum/boost gauge... cheap
A fuel pressure gauge... kinda cheap
And a wideband fuel/air ratio gauge... expensive

When I floor it.... The boost gauge reads boost immediately..... from like 17hg vacuum to more than 6 psi in a tenth of a second

.... The fuel pressure gauge shows fuel pressure increasing at a much slower rate.... from 40psi to 75psi after one full second

My A/F ratio gauge reads about 16.1 at cruise...When I floor it, it stays about the same for about one second (16.1 is not good at WOT)
... and then after fuel pressure "catches up" the A/F ratio goes to about 11.5-12.0 (which is ideal at WOT)

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Report this Post10-14-2013 06:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm using the same gen5 supercharger. I wonder what your blm's are? If you could borrow a scanner from someone and use it set the blm's to pull fuel but still allow the computer to correct, maybe 118, it may help a bit. Great work though, thanks for the help.
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Report this Post10-14-2013 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MaxCubes:

When I floor it.... The boost gauge reads boost immediately..... from like 17hg vacuum to more than 6 psi in a tenth of a second

.... The fuel pressure gauge shows fuel pressure increasing at a much slower rate.... from 40psi to 75psi after one full second

My A/F ratio gauge reads about 16.1 at cruise...When I floor it, it stays about the same for about one second (16.1 is not good at WOT)
... and then after fuel pressure "catches up" the A/F ratio goes to about 11.5-12.0 (which is ideal at WOT)


Sounds like you need a tunable computer so that you can tune acceleration enrichment... that's something that the RRFPR won't do for you.
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Report this Post10-15-2013 03:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes... I think I will order another prom with a higher fuel enrichment value. ( I know nothing about how to do this programming stuff myself )

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Report this Post10-15-2013 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MaxCubes:

Yes... I think I will order another prom with a higher fuel enrichment value. ( I know nothing about how to do this programming stuff myself )


Well then you'd better learn, because asking for "higher fuel enrichment value" is going to be hit or miss at best. The very least you need to do is go to a reputable tuner like Darth/Sinister with DATA LOGS so that he can modify your tune appropriately
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Report this Post10-15-2013 01:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You might consider a different fuel regulator with a vacuum built in for boosted applications.

Mallory makes bypass regulators set up like this. It might be the answer, provided you fuel pump is up the task. The problem with a fuel pump can be hard to identify but with boost you need a good one and they are not cheap

Arn
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