Just curious. Is it possible you have a leak in the cross tubes? Those tubes are extruded aluminum and there maybe a chance there is a leak in the meld seam on the tubing caused by the cutting process prior to installing the tube to the end cap/plate and expoxying in place? There for a tube leak, not a epoxy or weld leak. Sorry if my terminology is not correct, hope it translates ok.
I was not hijack a thread, the topic is somewhat related and outdated and therefore I was not trying to avoid what the original poster intended. I am using the factory Fiero shroud and fan. For some reason the bolts will not engage into the factory Fiero shroud and I think the bolts are hitting the fan and since this topic has never been discussed I think I am somehow making a silly mistake. My fan is mounting directly on the stock Fiero shrouds. Maybe there is some spacers I am missing? It has been 3 years since I have driven this car so I may be missing something. I am honestly sorry if I have offended you but I really just wanted to keep some information together rather than creating a whole new post. It's easier for the archive search in the future for other people.
Thank you for everyone's time and please know I had no intention to hijack anything.
Matthew
OK. Well, the original post of this thread is about a leak issue and possible defect in manufacturing. You are asking about a problem you are having with mounting the fan shroud. These are clearly two separate topics, so a new thread would be appropriate. Pics showing the problem you are having would also help, because I don't really understand what you mean when you say the bolts won't go through. It sounds to me like you are either using the wrong bolts, are trying to mount the shroud upside down, or something similar to that effect, but I can't really say from just the text you've written here.
The bolts which hold the shroud to the support frame are short. You can see in the first pic posted in this thread, the top two locations where the shroud bolts up. A few pics later is a pic of the radiator, which shows notches where the bolts may interfere with the larger radiator. If your radiator does not have these notches and you are using the 3 core, or you are using longer bolts than necessary, it's possible that you may be bottoming them out against the radiator, I guess. They are short bolts with a 10mm hex head, IIRC.
OK. Well, the original post of this thread is about a leak issue and possible defect in manufacturing. You are asking about a problem you are having with mounting the fan shroud. These are clearly two separate topics, so a new thread would be appropriate. Pics showing the problem you are having would also help, because I don't really understand what you mean when you say the bolts won't go through. It sounds to me like you are either using the wrong bolts, are trying to mount the shroud upside down, or something similar to that effect, but I can't really say from just the text you've written here.
The bolts which hold the shroud to the support frame are short. You can see in the first pic posted in this thread, the top two locations where the shroud bolts up. A few pics later is a pic of the radiator, which shows notches where the bolts may interfere with the larger radiator. If your radiator does not have these notches and you are using the 3 core, or you are using longer bolts than necessary, it's possible that you may be bottoming them out against the radiator, I guess. They are short bolts with a 10mm hex head, IIRC.
You are absolutely correct! My radiator doesn't have those notches! Thank you for being so observent. I guess I will try to cut down one of those 10mm screws and see if that will allow me to bolt the fan on.
OR I could try drilling into the rad. I realllly do not want to take the top support off, I remember it was extremely difficult to install even with cutting the rubber mounts down!
EDIT: There are notches in the rad! I ended up taking off the top support. The slots are shifted towards the pass side. No matter how much I try to adjust the rad I cannot align the mounting holes to the slots! This is very frustrating. Also those 10mm bolts are different from the common 10mm around the car. These incorporate a floating washer and are the only bolts that properly thread into the plates on the rad supports. Lucky me I can only find 3 of the 4
I am not sure what to do about those slots...It's very frustrating.
[This message has been edited by Matthew_Fiero (edited 06-20-2015).]
Okay I drilled holes in the radiator to compensate for the slot mismatch (after hours of trying to match them). Now the fan is touching the rad and of course I don't want the fan to hit the rad. Installing washers makes the bolts to small to engage.
1. You are missing the big problem is many buying parts on ebay and some others. EBay is full of graymarket and counterfeit vendors. I won't buy any "mission-critical" parts off eBay.
2. Not really. The part above is mainly made for people use "plain" water, w/ or w/o WaterWetter, for Racing or Marine use. The fitting is made to replace the drain plug(s) in the engine block. Aluminum radiators last decades when people keep good coolant in the system. (Ignoring plastic tank issues.) The "additive package" in the coolant prevents these problems and lubricates the water pump seal. When the system rots or plugs on the inside then likely: Installed new coolant and made a weak mix like using 50-50 premix after a flush. Have iffy grounds. Coolant is very good at conducting electricity and doing so will kill the system. Coolant is just too old. Some products have a three-year life, others five years or 150,000 miles, others even longer. If the car is stored for months than the coolant could separate and leave parts of the system unprotected.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
1. You are missing the big problem is many buying parts on ebay and some others. EBay is full of graymarket and counterfeit vendors. I won't buy any "mission-critical" parts off eBay.
x 2... yes sir, I agree with you about EBay's status as a global selling medium. Personally, I do not use Ebay... at all... nor do I recommend anyone buying "mission critical" parts from Ebay unless it's from a reputable, well-established USA distributor. The bottom line is that it's just not worth the hassle. Get your parts straight from them, not Ebay.
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
2. Not really. The part above is mainly made for people use "plain" water, w/ or w/o WaterWetter, for Racing or Marine use. The fitting is made to replace the drain plug(s) in the engine block.
That was only a quick example of a sacrificial anode. I should have found a better one. I'm no expert, but from my personal experience, corrosion in aluminum radiators is generally caused by electrical feed-back from a poor battery ground in a vehicle, something Fieros are notorious for. In other words, it's not required to have one at all... but if something goes awry in the electrical system, it's more like corrosion insurance for your radiator. If I had more time when I was posting, I would have found an example something like this:
Anyways, it's not a bad idea to use one if you decide to run an aluminum radiator, just like you elaborated on:
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
Aluminum radiators last decades when people keep good coolant in the system. (Ignoring plastic tank issues.) The "additive package" in the coolant prevents these problems and lubricates the water pump seal. When the system rots or plugs on the inside then likely: Installed new coolant and made a weak mix like using 50-50 premix after a flush. Have iffy grounds. Coolant is very good at conducting electricity and doing so will kill the system. Coolant is just too old. Some products have a three-year life, others five years or 150,000 miles, others even longer. If the car is stored for months than the coolant could separate and leave parts of the system unprotected.
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 06-21-2015).]
Okay I drilled holes in the radiator to compensate for the slot mismatch (after hours of trying to match them). Now the fan is touching the rad and of course I don't want the fan to hit the rad. Installing washers makes the bolts to small to engage.
Why is something so simple so difficult?
Can anyone please give me some pointers?
Spacers. You can make your own by cutting some tubing any length you want, and I have just used larger nuts as spacers. To insulate the radiator from a metal to metal, you can also just cut some lengths of rubber hose to slip over the bolts. Fuel line works great.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-22-2015).]
Getting back on topic. I believe that the failures of the Champion 3 row radiator may be due to excessive heat and pressure. The standard cap is 20 lbs. Heat the radiator coolant up to 200*F and you have a great degree of pressure in there.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Good point. Stock Fiero cap is 16lbs. Not sure why they would sell the radiator with a 20lb cap. They do offer radiators for other vehicles that come with 16lb caps. It just doesn't make sense.
I know a radiator cap is cheap and it's not a big issue to just swap it out, but buyers should be getting the proper one when they purchase the radiator. I'm going to contact Champion Cooling Systems to see what the deal is on this one. Maybe I can get them to switch to 16lb caps on their Fiero radiators.
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 06-23-2015).]
I checked with Champion and confirmed that their Fiero radiators come with 16lb caps only... in fact, they told me they don't even offer a 20lb cap for any of their radiators. So I guess if a person has a 20lb cap on their Champion radiator, someone else swapped out the cap at some point. As a side note, I was told that even if a customer got the incorrect cap, they would gladly send out the correct one.
Still curious about the oddball radiator cap fitment thing... I should have asked them about it while I had them on the phone. If I can remember to do so, I'll call them again tomorrow and ask.
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 06-24-2015).]
Spacers. You can make your own by cutting some tubing any length you want, and I have just used larger nuts as spacers. To insulate the radiator from a metal to metal, you can also just cut some lengths of rubber hose to slip over the bolts. Fuel line works great.
You were right. I bought some longer bolts and added nuts as washers and everything is running like a dream now! Thank you for your suggestion!
I'll keep you posted. I didn't get a chance to call them today, I was tied up with meetings and such.
The Champion Cooling Systems rep I spoke to indicated that their caps don't come with lb markings on them... said something about a "1.1" marking on it, that's it.
I'll keep you posted. I didn't get a chance to call them today, I was tied up with meetings and such.
The Champion Cooling Systems rep I spoke to indicated that their caps don't come with lb markings on them... said something about a "1.1" marking on it, that's it.
When I pressure tested the Champion radiator cap it took 20 psi before leakage started. If you have access to a cap pressure test set, measure it and see what you come up with. These radiators while they look well made are also made in a place where anything is possible. The Chinese Quality Control man says: boss we've got a batch of products out here that don't meet specs, what shall we do? The Boss replies: You know what to do...........ship em. By the time they get to the USA we would have already been paid.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Getting back on topic. I believe that the failures of the Champion 3 row radiator may be due to excessive heat and pressure. The standard cap is 20 lbs. Heat the radiator coolant up to 200*F and you have a great degree of pressure in there.
200 deg coolant temps are well within the stock coolant temp operating range. Champion also offers a 4 row Fiero radiator I see at the bottom of this link; http://www.championradiators.com/page/423185844
Champion Fiero radiators are supposed to be supplied with a radiator cap marked 1.1, which is 1.1 BAR (15.95psi). You should not have a cap with a 1.3 marking; it equals 1.3BAR (18.85psi).
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 06-30-2015).]
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: When I pressure tested the Champion radiator cap it took 20 psi before leakage started. If you have access to a cap pressure test set, measure it and see what you come up with. These radiators while they look well made are also made in a place where anything is possible. The Chinese Quality Control man says: boss we've got a batch of products out here that don't meet specs, what shall we do? The Boss replies: You know what to do...........ship em. By the time they get to the USA we would have already been paid.
Is it not possible to perhaps stay on topic in technical discussions without strolling off into the realm of speculative political drivel?
Is it not possible to perhaps stay on topic in technical discussions without strolling off into the realm of speculative political drivel?
Actually that is not a speculative political drivel, but a reputation that is well earned by some manufacturers. When people dish out their hard earned money for something and get Sheit instead, they are justified in speculating about the manufacturer's ill intent.
[This message has been edited by cyrus88 (edited 06-30-2015).]
Actually that is not a speculative political drivel, but a reputation that is well earned by some manufacturers. When people dish out their hard earned money for something and get Sheit instead, they are justified in speculating about the manufacturer's ill intent.
Some "manufacturers" are not all manufacturers. Following that logic, we should all just stop buying any parts from anyone, because they're all a bunch of profiteering gluttons and we are going to get inferior products. There are also cases where people end up buying counterfeit products, which you can't justly blame the OEM for.
If a technical examination actually proves that Champion Radiators being manufactured in China is the core problem, then sure; but until then, having all these threads turn into political rants about China and various extreme low cost manufacturers in the country, is uncalled for, exhausting, and completely destroys any usefulness of the thread. There is no evidence that this is a problem with Champion. Rather, there is a significant amount of evidence which points to the contrary.
Some "manufacturers" are not all manufacturers. Following that logic, we should all just stop buying any parts from anyone, because they're all a bunch of profiteering gluttons and we are going to get inferior products. There are also cases where people end up buying counterfeit products, which you can't justly blame the OEM for.
If a technical examination actually proves that Champion Radiators being manufactured in China is the core problem, then sure; but until then, having all these threads turn into political rants about China and various extreme low cost manufacturers in the country, is uncalled for, exhausting, and completely destroys any usefulness of the thread. There is no evidence that this is a problem with Champion. Rather, there is a significant amount of evidence which points to the contrary.
"Where are these (Champion Radiators) made?"
"While our radiators are manufactured in China, hence the low price point, they are designed in the U.S. If an American made radiator is preferred instead, please call us for availability. There will be a price difference to accommodate the American labor being put into it. A standard 2-row is $169.98, and an American made 2-row with 1" tubes is $279.98"
Before this conversation gets all political, let me just say this. A properly functioning stock Delco cooling system with a STOCK radiator and no kinks in the coolant tubes will cool your Fiero's engine just fine. Extra coolant capacity is the real key here with the Fiero cooling system. Champion aluminum radiators are a simple/cost effective way to upgrade cooling performance if it's really desired. It weighs less too. That said, my V8 Fiero has never had temperature issues with the stock, fully-functioning system here in hot and sunny Florida summers.
I'm not trying to sell Champion Radiators... I'm just trying to help.
Just sayin'.
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 06-30-2015).]
Some one please do us all the favor of counting the number of tubes and the number of fins per inch. I had a recent experience with an ebay aftermarket radiator (probably counterfeit) that had a significant deficiency that wasn't discovered until I noticed uncharacteristically higher than normal coolant temps.
It turns out it had 58 coolant tubes and 17 fins per inch vs. the stock unit it replaced which I found on further inspection had 71 tubes and 25 fins per inch. Once it was replaced with another OE unit the temps went back to normal to the tune of 20+ deg difference under nearly the same conditions.
Any radiator that does not have equal to or more coolant tubes and fins per inch as the stock radiator will not cool better than the stock radiator unless it has a considerable increase in volume. When I get time I'll pull my stock radiator out (of the shed) and count the tubes and fins for comparison.
The Champion 3 row was less impressive when I needed to run a new stock unit for a while and the coolant temp increase on avg was about 5-8 deg. I'm curious to know if the China radiator shares the exact same specs as the USA radiator. Always count tubes and fins when you are replacing a stock unit with an aftermarket unit no matter who it's from as I've seen similar difference from the common parts store radiators claiming stock specs.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-30-2015).]
Before this conversation gets all political, let me just say this. A properly functioning stock Delco cooling system with a STOCK radiator and no kinks in the coolant tubes will cool your Fiero's engine just fine. Extra coolant capacity is the real key here with the Fiero cooling system. Champion aluminum radiators are a simple/cost effective way to upgrade cooling performance if it's really desired. It weighs less too. That said, my V8 Fiero has never had temperature issues with the stock, fully-functioning system here in hot and sunny Florida summers.
That's just not true in the Southwest. I've talked to more than one guy with the stock V6 engine and radiator that had overheating issues WITH and WITHOUT trying to use A/C. I've been a member here for more than 15 years and NEVER heard of anyone using a stock fiero radiator with a V8.
People looking for help read this kind of info and end up getting into trouble. My 3800SC car has a stock radiator and I have to change it next week.
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 06-30-2015).]
Originally posted by PaulJK: That's just not true in the Southwest. I've talked to more than one guy with the stock V6 engine and radiator that had overheating issues WITH and WITHOUT trying to use A/C. I've been a member here for more than 15 years and NEVER heard of anyone using a stock fiero radiator with a V8.
People looking for help read this kind of info and end up getting into trouble. My 3800SC car has a stock radiator and I have to change it next week.
Have to agree with you. My stock radiator couldn't do better than near 240 deg on my 350 5 speed swap between Tampa and Jacksonville FL and it didn't have a condenser in front of it. I have seen where others have said similar, I just assumed they were talking about late Fall and Winter driving.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-30-2015).]
Originally posted by PaulJK: That's just not true in the Southwest. I've talked to more than one guy with the stock V6 engine and radiator that had overheating issues WITH and WITHOUT trying to use A/C. I've been a member here for more than 15 years and NEVER heard of anyone using a stock fiero radiator with a V8.
People looking for help read this kind of info and end up getting into trouble. My 3800SC car has a stock radiator and I have to change it next week.
There are plenty of people running stock radiators with V8 or 3800 swaps, even turboed 3800s making a lot more power.
There are however, a lot more than one OEM FIero radiator/fan/shroud combination. Depending on which one you have, it may not be sufficient for cooling. I think some of the OEM configurations don't really have a shroud at all even. The full shroud configuration will provide the best cooling with the fan on, if you've swapped to a larger engine. The cooling tubes are also pretty sensitive; even small dents in the tubes can disrupt flow and cooling ability, leading to overheating issues.
My 1986 V8 GT with a mild 350 TPI that has a completely stock cooling system with a newish (stock replacement) radiator and 180 T-Stat. Stock fan switch too.
I never once had a problem with overheating.
Ever.
That doesn't mean I'm recommending a stock radiator/cooling system for higher-horsepower applications.
It does mean that a fully functioning stock cooling system operating at 100% efficiency should be enough to cool even a slightly modified V8 in a hot climate. If it's not, something's just not up to snuff in the cooling system.
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 07-01-2015).]
My 1986 V8 GT with a mild 350 TPI that has a completely stock cooling system with a newish (stock) radiator and 180 T-Stat. Stock fan switch too.
I never once had a problem with overheating.
Ever.
That doesn't mean I'm recommending a stock radiator/cooling system for higher-horsepower applications.
It does mean that a fully functioning stock cooling system operating at 100% efficiency should be enough to cool even a slightly modified V8 in a hot climate. If it's not, something's just not up to snuff in the cooling system.
I'd have to see it to believe it. I didn't have a problem with overheating in my 350 TPI, just a discomfort with the higher temps. I don't discount fully what you are saying, but having owned two TPI IROC Z28s with reasonably larger radiators than what is found in a Fiero, understand that your statement without data to back it up in the temps we are seeing right now in FL, on the interstate at 70 mph with the AC running, are pushing firmly against the laws of physics which don't care what we say.
At the moment your statement about no cooling problem is subjective. If your coolant temps at speeds > 55 mph sustained are running above 210 deg, that's uncomfortable for me because the stock unit for the 350 usually holds it to around 190. The higher temps run above stock normal at cruise speeds, the less cooling reserve you have on a particularly hot day and that's what drew my attention to the discovery a posted above regarding tubes and fins. Suggesting the Fiero radiator should have no problems adequately cooling double the displacement it was designed for in all the typical circumstances it would be subject to is more than hard to believe.
Unfortunately I don't have hard data to share, just my past experience. I do know that the 180 T-stat was a big help. I drove the V8 car quite a while with the stock set-up with no issues before the transmission gave out at the drag strip one night. It hasn't been on the road since, but when it returns it will have a Champion radiator (original *Archie radiator got dinged up/damaged and got yanked out of the car).
*Edited for clarity.
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 07-01-2015).]
... but when it returns it will have a Champion radiator (stock one got dinged up/damaged while out of the car).
I don't believe it either. My V8 conversion was done by Archie and NONE of his V8 conversions used a stock fiero radiator - there was a reason for that. If your stock fiero radiator was so great, it would be a LOT cheaper to get a used one from a junk yard or in the Mall here than buy a Champion.
But if anybody wants to take advice from you and dobey, good luck to 'em. They'll need it. LOL
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 07-01-2015).]
Is it not possible to perhaps stay on topic in technical discussions without strolling off into the realm of speculative political drivel?
There was nothing political about my comment. I did present some factual evidence and made some humor about products manufactured in China. If you believe that Chinese products are so great try an ignition module and let us know how it works out. While China produces some good stuff their quality control standards are very inferior to ours. My experience has confirmed this and I try to avoid using them, but I do have a Champion radiator and a Frozen Boost FMHE that were made there.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: There was nothing political about my comment. I did present some factual evidence and made some humor about products manufactured in China. If you believe that Chinese products are so great try an ignition module and let us know how it works out. While China produces some good stuff their quality control standards are very inferior to ours. My experience has confirmed this and I try to avoid using them, but I do have a Champion radiator and a Frozen Boost FMHE that were made there.
You presented no facts. What you stated was a non-intellectual attack on China. What does a random ICM you bought have to do with a Champion radiator? Should we talk about iPhones too? Or whatever other device you typed that on, which was almost certainly made in China too. This thread isn't about random cheap ICMs, or you're perceived concept of what you might think quality control at some plant in China might be like. It is about a specific set of issues with a specific type of radiator.
Maybe your intent with the post was good, but I can't say. If so, the words you chose certainly don't match your intentions. It has happened in many threads already where you or someone will post some comment about China, very similar to what you posted here, and the thread turns into a bunch of people just hating on China, rather than discussing the actual problems I'm sure Joseph, as well as any future passers by who happen to stumble upon this thread, would appreciate keeping things on topic, rather than jumping in with a rally cry against goods produced in factories in China.
I don't believe it either. My V8 conversion was done by Archie and NONE of his V8 conversions used a stock fiero radiator - there was a reason for that. If your stock fiero radiator was so great, it would be a LOT cheaper to get a used one from a junk yard or in the Mall here than buy a Champion.
But if anybody wants to take advice from you and dobey, good luck to 'em. They'll need it. LOL
Plenty of forum members have run stock (or stock-type replacement) radiators in their modified Fieros. FYI, even Archie himself said that a stock (V6) radiator can be sufficient for a V8. I'm not just blowing smoke here. Just a random example:
Edited: I haven't mentioned anything about Archie's radiator. I had Archie's radiator in my V8 GT... until I wrecked it several years ago and messed it up pretty bad. It was replaced with a stock replacement-type radiator that I had readily available from a parts car. I ran that radiator until my transmission blew up.
I think it's time for me to kindly step away from this thread now. Have fun guys, and please try to play nice with each other.
[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 07-01-2015).]
I finally replaced the second failed Champion radiator that is the topic of this thread after having kept it in longer than what I should have as it continued to leak progressively more. I reinstalled the like new stock 1.25" single row stock unit that was in use while waiting for the warranty replacement. I believe I posted at the time either here or in another thread that I didn't note a significant difference in performance between the two.
After giving it more thought I realized the stock 1.25" radiator actually has more functional cross section tube width than the champion as 3 x 3/8" tubes = 1.125" tube section width for the champion which has about 2 or 3 more columns of tubes than the stock unit making them about even as far as core cooling area is concerned. In other words, I see no point in buying another 3 row champion. I am interested in giving the 1" tube, 2 row unit a try at some point as it actually has about a 25% increase in coolant tube area than the aforementioned.
Understand that my setup actually tests the limits of the radiator at 4.2 litres and turbocharged so it deals with the heat of increased displacement and the additional heat from the water cooled turbo. A stock 2.8, 3.1L and 3.4L are not likely going to put much of a dent in the stock cooling capacity, much less that of the 3 row champion which probably also gets a little cooling help from the metal tanks so I'm never surprised to hear good performance and dependability reported in those circumstances.
The stock radiator did an outstanding job yesterday in 92 deg heat holding the coolant temps at 199 deg (because of the 185 deg stat and cooling nature of the 3.9L V6 system) on the interstate at 70 mph with the A/C running, and dropping temps as low as 194 deg with the A/C off per datalog dash on the laptop during the trip. That's good enough performance to justify not spending money for a third 3 row radiator identical to the previous two that failed because they held the same temp on the interstate at that speed.
One thing we can all probably benefit from in the cooling department is an over drive water pump pulley by about 15% as I noticed that while idle testing the radiator at about 850 rpm, temps climbed above 200 deg to 215 with the fan running and quickly came down to 200 shutting the fan off when I raised the rpm to about 1300. My fan on/off temp is set to 205/201. I run lower on/off cycle temps as a resutl of the turbo.
I believe the Champion radiator for the Fiero is a good product, but at this point in my experience, not good enough cooling ability wise to be worth the effort. I believe a high performance cooling fan on the stock 1.25" radiator would offer better cooling performance and if one could get their hands on an overdrive pulley for the water pump the two together would likely perform outstanding enough to make the idea of a larger capacity radiator unnecessary.
Nothing wrong with a the stock radiator. It cooled my 3800SC fine BUT it was 25 years old . That's the only reason that I replaced it with the Champion. Installed two years and no problems so far but I run the old reliable Prestone Green Ethylene Glycol anti-freeze and 60% distilled water. Been doing it this way for years without problems so why change?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
You are absolutely correct! My radiator doesn't have those notches! Thank you for being so observent. I guess I will try to cut down one of those 10mm screws and see if that will allow me to bolt the fan on.
OR I could try drilling into the rad. I realllly do not want to take the top support off, I remember it was extremely difficult to install even with cutting the rubber mounts down!
EDIT: There are notches in the rad! I ended up taking off the top support. The slots are shifted towards the pass side. No matter how much I try to adjust the rad I cannot align the mounting holes to the slots! This is very frustrating. Also those 10mm bolts are different from the common 10mm around the car. These incorporate a floating washer and are the only bolts that properly thread into the plates on the rad supports. Lucky me I can only find 3 of the 4
I am not sure what to do about those slots...It's very frustrating.
Hi Matthew, My radiator is the same one I think. Mine has the groves cut into the top and bottom of the frame.. Pop off your frame and look at the top of yours.. I have to line mine up a little to make the cutouts line up with the screw holes.. look and see before chopping up your radiator...
Nothing wrong with a the stock radiator. It cooled my 3800SC fine BUT it was 25 years old . That's the only reason that I replaced it with the Champion. Installed two years and no problems so far but I run the old reliable Prestone Green Ethylene Glycol anti-freeze and 60% distilled water. Been doing it this way for years without problems so why change?
My car with a TPI V8 and 5 speed cooled fine with the stock Fiero radiator, when I wanted to get the AC working, which can generate more heat, I switched to the Champion 3 core. It does cool better now with less fan time, though. Having said that, the Fiero rad was original and I do not know if the passages were clean as new, likely not.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-28-2018).]
