I'm documenting the work on this "go around" for my next appraisal.
The cause of the problem - WHY the engine/transmission was pulled. This thing collapsed while sitting at a light and I just felt the car creep ahead slightly (I thought the hydraulics were going).
But the pressure plate fingers rubbing on the bearing cooked the grease in it fairly quickly! What a stench!
There are downsides to a "heavy clutch" (Spec Stage 2) - that's a lot of pressure. By comparison, the Bully Clutch Stage 3 I replaced it with is very light. www.bullyclutch.com
The top bushing is easy to knock out with Rodney Dickman's bushing tool. But you need a specialized tool to get the lower bushing for the clutch fork out. Yup. I already tried the "grease trick" with no result.
But a found a transmission shop who said they could remove it for me. They told me they use a slide hammer with pilot bushing extractor to hook under the bushing. It was a struggle, but they got it out - basically cut cutting the thing in half with a hammer and chisel. They all had pizza for lunch the next day
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-24-2013).]
I found that my transmission had been seeping for some time from the cup-shaped shift shaft cover. This metal cover has a rubber sealing edge embedded on it - not replaceable - and the covers are discontinued.
After cleaning up and repainting the transmission I reinstalled the shift shaft cover. When last rebuilt, they installed this with silicone - so I cleaned up the edge as best as I could, leaving most of the original rubber seal intact. I trimmed back the rubber edge about 1/16 inch, and applied a bead of Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker #51813.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
The clutch kit I got was a Bully Stage 3 www.bullyclutch.com Kit includes a new release bearing and clutch alignment tool.
They don't list any clutches for the Fiero but they do for the Cavalier (guess they don't know they're the same)
Chevrolet Cavalier 2.8L Eng (Getrag/Muncie 5 Spd) 1987-89 Stage 1 04-0881 Stage 2 04-0882 Stage 3 04-0883 - what I ordered Stage 4 04-0884C Stage 5 04-885C
The center hub of the Bully disc is smaller, but otherwise they look a lot alike. Because of the Bully pressure plate redesign, the pedal effort is light while still giving great clamping force. I still have a Spec Stage 2 in my Indy - it's a real chore to drive now compared to the Bully.
OK - you buy the Fiero Store Getrag clutch fork shaft (Design 1 in my case), bushings and seal to go with it.
You go through all the grief of getting that "darned" bottom bushing out and get the shaft, bushings and release bearing installed. Everything looks good - you bolt the transmission to the engine and drop it on the cradle. So far so good...
NOW you go to install the clutch slave cylinder and something doesn't fit quite right. I thought I had screwed up somewhere.
BUT I remembered Troy mentioning something about this when he rebuilt the Getrag I was installing in my Indy. There is something odd about these FS Getrag clutch shafts - they "clock" wrong. (this is the 2nd one I had bought)
A phone call to Troy and I knew what to do. Remove the clutch arm to modify it (NOT the shaft). Using a round file, file off the first tooth by the "8" and slightly elongate the bolt hole. You can install "1 tooth over".
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
With engine also out, I found that my thermostat housing gasket had been seeping coolant which had trickled down and eaten the paint off the cabin side of the engine all the way down to the front motor mount.
Upon examining the housing I discovered the flange that mates to the intake manifold was slightly warped. A few seconds on a belt sander remedied the situation (a wood block with sandpaper would do equally well).
But I always wondered WHY you would use PAPER as a gasket for coolant which is at least 50% water?? I wanted something better.
I found that Felpro makes a variety of better quality thermostat gaskets than what you get in their kits. I found PN 35595 for GM V6 engines has a nice rubber ring embedded in it. The holes are a perfect match - only need to elongate them slightly outward as on the regular gasket.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
I had the headers off to get a new ceramic coating and to repaint the engine.
I'd heard about people using these VW exhaust gaskets for the V6 engine and decided to look some up. I found these copper ones with the 1-5/8" hole that people were recommending. (4 in a package)
It's only once I got them that I noticed the stock exhaust gasket and heads only have a 1-1/2" outlet anyway. 1-1/2" rings also available - could have also used those. All installed - no leaks. YAY!!
California Import Parts (separate websites for Canada and US customers) http://www.cip1.com/ Canadians won't be "importing" from the Langley B.C. store...
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
WARNING - parts you will never find find locally - or very unlikely to find.... Yeah - some people say uncomplimentary things about Fiero Store, BUT they have stuff you will need.
I did find NAPA had these listed, but none had any stock locally. I had to drive from my city to small town for these - they had a box of 10. EGR tube gaskets (EGR to bottom of plenum) http://fierostore.com/Produ...ail.aspx?s=67952&p=1
As far as the world is concerned, these don't exist. Original GM part number is discontinued. Nothing in the standard HELP packages will work either - usually wrong size or too thin. If you only need the tube o-ring, it's been said that the standard AS -105 (AS dash 105) is the size you need. Cold Start Injector O-ring kit http://fierostore.com/Produ...ail.aspx?s=61954&p=1
As far as GM was concerned, they'd rather sell you a whole new rail (now discontinued anyway) My block seal looked not too bad, so I gave it a misting of Permatex Copper Spray-A-Gasket - seems OK now. Fuel rail to block seal http://fierostore.com/Produ...ail.aspx?s=60853&p=1
EDIT: EGR tube gaskets - you can try (95 Camaro 3.4L on Rock Auto) STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # VG9 (open hole) STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # VG84 (has the metal orifice restriction) or AIRTEX Part # 3F1231 (has the metal orifice restriction)
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-25-2013).]
This is pretty neat. As a recent (re)entry to the Fiero world, I am finding this type of thing fascinating. I am still leery of tackling something so big...but luckily I have nothing big on the horizon (knock on freakin wood). Great job
This was the first time the engine's been out since 2003, so this was a good opportunity to refresh it.
Mechanically, there was nothing that needed to be done other than replacing a couple of gaskets. Mostly it needed cosmetic refresh - paint had faded or chipped etc.
The top end and accessories were removed, the block cleaned up and repainted VHT Gloss Black. The intake manifolds, oil pan and alternator bracket were painted VHT Cast Aluminum I LOVE VHT Caliper Paint - SO MUCH more durable that anything by Duplicolor.
That said, the closest thing to original I could find to repaint the upper plenum is Duplicolor Ford Red CDE1605 Duplicolor still lists Chrysler Industrial Red DE1632 - BUT not available in Canada anywhere - and hard to find in the US I hear.
The valve covers on the engine are new OEM from the box (had these on the shelf for a few years) You can see how closely the Ford Red matches them. (Chevy orange-red is too orange by the way).
We reworked the exhaust to a larger 2-1/2" from header to Borla muffler (Borla exhaust was only 2") The FOCOA header Y-pipe was reworked to 2-1/2" (was about 2-1/4") with a 2-1/2" in/out catalytic convertor installed. The headers, Y-pipe and downpipes were then sent out for a new high-luster ceramic coating.
New Magnecor plug wires, MSD distributor cap and coil add the finishing touches.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
Of course, there is NO WAY, I'm going to put this shiny new engine in a DIRTY engine bay (seen many who do though)
This pic is AFTER the dirty old original insulation and extra clutter has been removed.
The engine bay was sprayed and scrubbed of oil, grease and crud. Then scrubbed again with Acetone and a RED scrub pad. Do it long enough, and it will leave a good dull and clean surface to spray-bomb the engine bay. I went with VHT Gloss Black.
For a replacement for the firewall insulation, I went with B-Quiet's Hood Liner product http://www.b-quiet.com/hliner.html WHY can't someone make these liner products with BLACK colored aluminum foil?
"Peel and stick" can be a problem when maneouvering such a large piece - it stick's to whatever it touches. I forgot to use the window tinter's trick of wetting things down with a mist of light soapy water.
But I managed to get it in. Still a lot of clutter on the firewall side, but most can't be seen once engine is back in.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
Something was odd with my rack. I think it was "worn in the center". Adjustment of the pinion didn't help. Since I would need an alignment anyway.... and my steering felt terrible.... replace it!
NO RACKS available in Canada. I also hard a hard time finding axles last year too! Parts are running out guys.
So, I got the rack from Car Steering - looked good, and it seemed OK - it's "new" right? I installed it with new tie rod ends from Rodney Dickman, and everything went together and felt OK - as it should.
I got it aligned today. It works great. Light effort, good feel etc.
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-02-2023).]
This is pretty neat. As a recent (re)entry to the Fiero world, I am finding this type of thing fascinating. I am still leery of tackling something so big...but luckily I have nothing big on the horizon (knock on freakin wood). Great job
Thank you. Have to get it washed and take a couple more pics, but very busy with the Indy right now. - fixing exhaust leak - installing new clutch line - and more https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...3/HTML/000077-5.html
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-24-2013).]
Pretty pizzed off with this rack from carsteering.com I paid a "premium" to get this (all shipping - even to return my core) and it's crap!
Two weeks after getting my alignment I noticed a rattle in the driver's side front end. It eventually turned out to be from the upper control arm bolt and that is resolved now.
BUT while looking for the source of the rattle - I found that the inner tie-rod end had some play in it too. This "rebuilt" rack ISN'T. The driver's side inner tie-red is worn out, and the passenger's side was hard to move and didn't move smoothly (old parts). I had installed new outer tie-rod ends when I installed the rack, but that's not much good if inner is rusty/worn out.
New inner tie-rod is $22 retail. carsteering.com should be replacing these as a matter of course on a "rebuilt" rack - not only "if needed". They saved a couple bucks on their cost, but it's cost me $50 + time to replace these, AND I need another alignment!
They will be getting a stern letter from me! PS - the rack itself seems OK. The left piece came off my "rebuilt steering rack".
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-13-2020).]
I'm documenting the work on this "go around" for my next appraisal.
The cause of the problem - WHY the engine/transmission was pulled. This thing collapsed while sitting at a light and I just felt the car creep ahead slightly (I thought the hydraulics were going).
But the pressure plate fingers rubbing on the bearing cooked the grease in it fairly quickly! What a stench!
There are downsides to a "heavy clutch" (Spec Stage 2) - that's a lot of pressure. By comparison, the Bully Clutch Stage 3 I replaced it with is very light. www.bullyclutch.com
Thanks for sharing... Very good info in the documentation.
One thing though, are you sure that old TO bearing is a getrag part? The "ears" seem very different on the old destroyed bearing.
Yes, and its advised that the parts for fieros are drying up on shelves everywhere. For GM, many years ago. Now the aftermarket is coming too.
I bet you need to watch the parts for the clutch related suppliers. I don't think the fiero store has the original clutch fork getrag parts. They are aftermarket...please confirm if I'm wrong. You'd expect for that price they would be genuine GM parts.
Nice catch on the cooling thermostat gasket...TFS does actually have some parts that nobody else has, even if they are in the US.
We have to keep supporting them...which I've been doing dearly for many years after many thousand dollars spent.
I did not know you had a 2.8 powered fiero .Great write up .I rebuilt my rack with rodney's parts and new outer tie rods from the fiero store .Had to make my own bushing tool but it was a simple rig .At the time ,canadian tire still had a listing for a rebuilt rack .288.00 i think .There really is not much to rebuild to cost that much as far as I am concerned .Thanks for posting all this .
SACHS SF1030 is the part number for the clutch fork if anyone wants to know. Many places show it out of stock but others have it still I hope. Most the time it runs around $50.
TWO other members in Calgary have installed the BULLY Stage 3 clutch. BOTH are very happy with it!
One changed from a Centerforce clutch when installing a Getrag F23 transmission. The other HATED his Gripforce Stage 3 (chattered) clutch and also installed a '92 Beretta Getrag. One of these behind a 3800 S/C: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum9/HTML/000038.html
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-29-2015).]
TWO other members in Calgary have installed the BULLY Stage 3 clutch. BOTH are very happy with it! ...
Now that a few months have passed, I wonder if you've got, or heard, any updates regarding this clutch. My 4.9 is about to eat up the last of the Ram clutch that I installed, and it goes against my better judgement to install another Spec, even though several people like their Spec 3+ clutches. I had a Spec 2 that I absolutely hated. (Chattered when it was cold and slipped when it was hot.) The Bully 3 disk looks similar to the Spec 2. I read your comments about the pressure plate and relative pedal force, so that's not lost on me.
Thanks!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-30-2015).]
Now that a few months have passed, I wonder if you've got, or heard, any updates regarding this <Bully> clutch.
Nobody has had any problems. My Bully clutch has been in service a couple of years now and still working great. Some guys in Toronto area who first tuned me onto these have had them longer. Maybe they can chime in...
Just started having problems with Spec Stage 2 clutch in my Indy (about 8 years old - only a few thousand miles) I was having problems disengaging clutch - car started moving as soon as I lifted pedal off the floor. Adjusting banjo longer didn't seem to help. I then installed Dickman's clutch master and slave cylinders thinking my original hydraulics may be the problem, and it seemed better.
But yesterday I had a heck of a time driving - having to shut engine off at a red light to get transmission into 1st gear then restart. My friend and I just checked everything over (no leaks) and have re-bled the system (no air coming through). I've readjusted pedal to 1-inch higher than brake pedal, but clutch still engages pretty low on liftoff. LOTS of movement at slave end.
I will test drive and adjust again, but if problem is not in the hydraulics...
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-26-2015).]
Now that a few months have passed, I wonder if you've got, or heard, any updates regarding this clutch. My 4.9 is about to eat up the last of the Ram clutch that I installed, and it goes against my better judgement to install another Spec, even though several people like their Spec 3+ clutches. I had a Spec 2 that I absolutely hated. (Chattered when it was cold and slipped when it was hot.) The Bully 3 disk looks similar to the Spec 2. I read your comments about the pressure plate and relative pedal force, so that's not lost on me.
Thanks!
Steve,
I have a SPEC Stage II clutch on the gray car (3.4 turbo) and it has been running nicely for more than five years. My torque is likely not as much as the 4.9 but the HP should be similar. I also think that the clutch force is very similar to the OEM clutch (if I can remember that far back).
Wow... Lost track of this one. I ended up buying another Ram clutch. The one I had was barely worn, but the "dish" in the middle of the flywheel was too small, and the rivets around the perimeter of the hub ended up hitting the edges of the flywheel, just outside of that dish. Once I had that edge "clearanced" a bit, the new disk works just fine. I would have reinstalled the old clutch assembly, but you can clearly see where the heat from the rivets hitting the flywheel caused the metal to turn blue. Seemed like false economy to reinstall a possibly heat damaged clutch, considering how much of a PITA it is to do the work.
You can see where the rivets were hitting.
Here's the "blued" disk. If you look carefully, you can see the ground heads on the rivets.
Here's the "clearanced" flywheel. The edge of the dish was beveled back at 45 degrees. No clearance issues any more.
I have a SPEC Stage II clutch on the gray car (3.4 turbo) and it has been running nicely for more than five years. My torque is likely not as much as the 4.9 but the HP should be similar. I also think that the clutch force is very similar to the OEM clutch (if I can remember that far back).
Nelson
That's the car that I drove. The clutch seemed fine when I drove it. OTOH, mine turned to kwrap in very short order. Maybe I wasn't holding my mouth just right.
Just started having problems with Spec Stage 2 clutch in my Indy... ... yesterday I had a heck of a time driving - having to shut engine off at a red light to get transmission into 1st gear then restart. My friend and I just checked everything over (no leaks) and have re-bled the system (no air coming through). I've readjusted pedal to 1-inch higher than brake pedal, but clutch still engages pretty low on liftoff. LOTS of movement at slave end.
I will test drive and adjust again, but if problem is not in the hydraulics...
This transmission in the Indy is getting harder to shift, sometimes almost impossible.
I've checked the shifter mechanism itself for broken welds/cracks. Everything's OK. The cables are new Dickman units. I disconnected them from trans. The shifter/cables work freely. I tried shifting the transmission manually. It's notchy and binding somewhat. I suppose there's an internal wear problem on the forks or something IN the transmission.
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