Here is a complete comparison between a 2005 3.5L Starter from an Impala to my stock 1987 2.8L starter from my Fiero GT
This is the biggest difference between the two starters. The power connections. You will need to use the Stock plug and wires from the 3.2L Starter and splice it into the 2.8L Starter lines.
Stock 2.8L Starter has mounting holes at 3 1/4" on center
3.5L Starter has the mounting holes at 3 1/4" on center
2.8L Starter long bolt carrier length is 3 1/4"
3.5L Starter long bolt carrier length is 3 1/4"
2.8L Starter Snout depth is 2 1/8"
3.5L Starter Snout depth is 1 5/8"
2.8L Starter Snout width is 2 3/4"
3.5L Starter Snout width is 2 3/8"
Now here is the biggest question most may want to know the Weight difference.
2.8L Starter Weight is 13.8 lbs.
3.5L Starter Weight is 6.4 lbs
Thats a weight savings of 7.4 lbs.
I will go back to my shop tomorrow and grab the plug so I can install it into my GT. I will post pics of my process after.
great comparison!!! . just 2 ?s. did you fix that oil leak and do you live on a dirt road? Ive seen starters caked up that bad and with the heat in a engine bay like the fiero that starter cant cool off. it holds the heat inside the starter. Leading cause for draging starters is wear from heat. that and bad timing.
Actually I just bought my first 87 GT two weeks ago, and I have been cleaning it up so I can start to work on it. It does have some major leaks that I have already in the works to fix. As a matter of fact tonight before I removed the starter I sprayed a can of engine cleaner on the bottom of the engine but it only did so much. No BTW I dont live on a dirt road, but where I bought the car was out in the country side along a dirt road.
[This message has been edited by Inferno (edited 07-26-2013).]
This is my first GT also. I bought mine converted to a crate 3.4 already. My starter is that small but a gear reduction one. The guy i bought it from said he switched it to the Late model Olds starter. Works like a champ too!!
ok Larry. Years, Makes and models please. That is what I am trying to do here. Give people more information so they can go find one. If you know of some then please share and we can start to build a reference database for everyone to use. ;-)
I think any of the GM starters that use the inline bolt holes will work. That covers a very wide range of vehicles and makers, probably more than can be listed. I think most all of the 3800's will fit, just take a look at one and you can easily tell if it will fit. I have one from a 2000 Buick on my 3100 96 Olds carbed setup now. Larry
This is the biggest difference between the two starters. The power connections. You will need to use the Stock plug and wires from the 3.2L Starter and splice it into the 2.8L Starter lines.
That looks like a nuisance. The two 3800 starters I picked up did not have a weird wiring terminal like that 3.5 starter.
I agree it will could be a PITA for someone. So what we now know is that the starter is physically the same for the 05 Impala but the connection is different. I would suggest then to people to go with the 3400 or 3800 starters unless a confirmed 3500 starter from a specific line of GM cars can be confirmed.
This version needs a plug.... (Archive version doesn't.) Try http://www.dormanproducts.com/ for new plug # then order thru many parts stores.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Might want to check out this archived thread Here.
I picked up two starters last weekend from the local Pick-a-Part for $17.95 apiece from a couple of 3800 engines, one SC and one NA.
The SC starter (1.7kw) is a tiny bit longer than the NA one (1.5kw).
The NA one will go on my duke, the SC one on my Formula.
The 1.7kw starters that autozone's website has listed for a 98 grand prix say that they have 11 teeth on the pinion with while the lower powered ones say they have 9. I know the stock fiero has 9. was just wondering if the website is right about the 11 teeth or not. One would think that if the 1.7kw has 11 teeth it wouldnt work.
The 1.7kw starters that autozone's website has listed for a 98 grand prix say that they have 11 teeth on the pinion with while the lower powered ones say they have 9. I know the stock fiero has 9. was just wondering if the website is right about the 11 teeth or not. One would think that if the 1.7kw has 11 teeth it wouldnt work.
That's a valid concern, but...
There are several threads here covering the use of 3800 starters on Fiero (2.5 and 2.8) engines. I advise you to look them up for peace of mind, but I recall reading that 11 teeth on the starter was not an issue.
Thanks for your reply. I have read a couple of the archived swap threads but niether had discussed the pinion gear tooth difference. I will read some more. Once again, thanks
If it bolts up it will work. The slop in the teeth on all of these will allow them to be happy. Just take care to shim them properly, that is why they provide the shims. Larry
Thanks guys. I found a 1.7 at the local recycler for $51. After 28 years I believe my starter has decided it is done living. Cranks the engine fine when its cold, hot it barely turned the engine and overheated the ground cable.
The starter for a 1998-2000 Grand Am (among other GM cars) can replace a Fiero starter directly, with no change in wiring needed. Here's a comparison picture:
Just tip on how to make Fiero starters last longer. Whereas they are quite close to exhaust components and thus heat, I cover mine with self-stick heat shielding. Jegs and Summit carry the stuff, cost about $9..
I got a 1.7 kW from a 2006 Grand Prix 3800 S/C No wiring plug needed. Just wires up as stock.
You have to go by vehicle AND engine. For the most part, the newer cars up to 2007 with 3800 S/C have the 1.7 kW. You have to remember the starter is also turning the Supercharger.
Here's a pic of the 3 different GM starters for comparison - Left to Right. Stock, a 1.5 kW (11 teeth on pinion gear) and 1.7 kW (9 teeth on pinion gear) I just got which is the smallest.
The small one of the 3 pictured below, has 9 teeth on the gear and according to AC Delco is the 1.7 kW for the 3800 S/C 2006 Grand Prix The middle slightly larger one I got a couple of years ago, has 11 teeth and came from a NA 3800 I believe...
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-28-2016).]
Tony, I suppose there could be a variation in size depending on the actual manufacturer. (I can't check them at this point, but I suspect the two starters I pulled at the wreckers a few years ago were both original ACDelco units.)
I just wanted to make sure it wasn't simply a typo that resulted in it being stated that the 1.7kw starter was smaller than the 1.5kw starter.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-26-2016).]
For the 4.9 folks... find a starter for a 4.5 Allante. Compared to the stock 4.9 starter, the differences are quite similar to the ones posted above. The wiring will work just fine. It spins the engine much more easily, and consumes less current while doing it. (It also sounds better, if that matters.)
The added benefit is that if you have a manual trans, you do not need to notch the clutch housing for the starter nose. (The Allante starter doesn't have one.)
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-26-2016).]
...but I suspect the two starters I pulled at the wreckers a few years ago were both original ACDelco units. I suppose there could be a variation in size depending on the actual manufacturer. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't simply a typo that was responsible for it being stated that the 1.7kw starter was smaller than the 1.5kw starter.
I think the smallest units are the "latest design". They have the external case bolts. The key to getting a 1.7 kW units seems to be getting it from a 3800 S/C engine. RockAuto shows AC Delco 336-1915A Rating 1.7 kW as the starter for the 2006 Grand Prix 3800 S/C
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-27-2016).]
I think the smallest units are the "latest design".
Whether the smallest units are actually newer or stronger or prettier or whatever , the good news is that any of these 1.5kw/1.7kw starters are superior to what originally came on our Fieros. It's a good low cost upgrade, especially when found at the boneyard.
Thought I'd just bump this. I did a little bit of research and discovered that for all of the standard replacement starters for our Fiero, they were all 1 KW Rating... and as discussed above, are also 9 teeth, and weigh in at a portly 14.16 pounds.
(Note, it's for a 2004 Pontiac Grand Am GT w/ 3400 V6/60)
It's also 1KW rating, 9 teeth, and weighs in at 6.55 pounds. It's brand new, not rebuilt. I was considering getting a rebuilt distributor, but with the core charge, there's only a 7 dollar difference, so it only made sense.
Okay granted, it was 11 years ago... but the $17.95 apiece that I paid for a couple of more modern lightweight starters at the wreckers was a bar-goon!
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