A couple of pics showing the idler support. I used an idler from a '90 Astro Van. I machined the support on my lathe.
Any thoughts on the best way to size the belt, besides trial and error? I was going to cut the old Caddy belt, run it through and use it as a measure. That will give me proper path length, but without any tension on it. How much length should I deduct from that measurement to ensure the tensioner does it's job? Conversely, I could lift the tensioner to full height and make the same measurement (which would be the smallest belt size that would fit). However, I suspect this shorter length would be under too much strain from the tensioner, so I'd need to add a bit of length to that measurement.
So it's easy to calculate the upper and lower range of belt lengths, but if anyone has any thoughts on picking the right size between these two measurements I'd love to hear them...
I was at Canadian Tire this weekend picking up some items, so I figured I'd also pick up the alternator belt. I went to the auto-parts counter and explained that I needed a six rib belt, 62.75" in length. The guy serving me looked at me and said, no problem, what car is it for. I said it's a custom engine configuration so that wouldn't help. He said...sorry can't help you without the specific car and engine since they only work with part numbers...not lengths of belts. Next please!
So off to Parts Source. I explained to the two guys behind the counter what I needed and they said they'd give it a try to figure out what part it is...but before they could start typing, the girl behind counter (who had been listening while doing something else) jumped in and chimed off the two stock numbers (one that was 1/4" larger and one 1/4" smaller, since they didn't make that exact size) from memory...which is funny in itself except they are all in metric for the sizes...so she actually converted inches to millimeters in her head and then figured out the stock numbers...also in her head. Wow!! I was impressed!
I tried both belts, fortunately the 63" belt fit perfectly (Goodyear Gatorback, 6PK1600)...I say fortunately, since it was $25 cheaper than the belt that was 1/2" shorter No issues returning the belt I didn't need.
I also finally got the manifold drilled and tapped for the oxygen sensor. However, the hole is a touch larger than it should be as the drilling was probably fractionally off center. Once I made it through the hole, the old o2 sensor metal finally came dislodged. I'll have to decide if there is enough bite for the thread to leave it as is, or I may weld a little metal back into the hole and redrill and tap it properly.
After checking the O2 sensor again, I decide that I really wasn't happy with the fit, so I went ahead and added a weld bead with the intention of redrilling the hole and retapping. Now I've run into a serious problem...the metal is hardened to a point where I can't drill through it (who knows if I'll be able to tap it if I can get through it).
I suspect I could get through it if I had a cobalt drill bit, but it's a special size to begin with (16.5mm) and I really don't want to pay a ridiculous amount for the cobalt bit. I figure my options are:
1. take it to a machine shop to have it drilled and tapped 2. Weld over the hold completely and drill and tap a completely new hole in another location (other manifold? crossover pipe? buy a cat with an O2 sensor port already in place?)
Decided to weld over the oxygen sensor hole and use a catalytic converter pre-drilled for the sensor. After much debate (with myself) I've decided to use the stock routing for the exhaust. As such, I also welded a cap over the manifold outlet.
Finally got around to making the engine mounts. Decided to use Energy Suspension mounts (3.1108g) that others had used. Seemed to be a good universal fit.
Also decided to remove the tray for the 2.5L mount. This should give me enough room to run the exhaust pipe straight back without having to follow the stock bend. Of course the stock bend probably wouldn't work with the 4.9L oil pan, so best it's out of the way.
This is how the mounts finally look bolted up. Tight fit, but the axle clears with a little room to spare.
As I mentioned before, the O2 sensor hole was slightly damaged during the exhausting efforts to get it out of the manifold. I welded it hoping to just redrill it, but the weld metal just proved too hard for me to drill. I chose to weld over the hole completely and relocate the O2 sensor.
Here's the manifold with the hole welded over:
My intention was to simply get a catalytic converter that is predrilled for an O2 sensor. But I am now second guessing that, since the converter will be in the stock 2.5 location and I wondering if the exhaust temp will have dropped too much for best results.
I also noticed this on the front manifold:
What is this spot supposed to be for? Could I drill and tap for an O2 sensor there?
So now I'm wondering which option would be best...
1. Get a catalytic converter with a predrilled o2 sensor hole. Easy solution...but would it be too cold? 2. Drill a hole and tap for the sensor on the crossover pipe, where the two manifolds connect (i.e. at the 'Y'). Hotter location, easy to tap, analyzes all the exhaust stream. 3. Drill a hole and tap for the sensor in the front manifold. Hottest location, but only in the path of two cylinders. Should be easy to drill and tap.
I had bungs added to my crossover, at the outlet of each manifold, and in the "Y". This allowed me the option of running dual O2s (which I later abandoned) and putting a wideband O2 in the Y, for tuning. I ordered plugs from one of the Corvette vendors. They were quite inexpensive. The guy who welded my bungs is out of business and out of state (long story) but I wouldn't be surprised if most custom exhaust shops had them in stock.
Whatever you screw into the holes (O2s or plugs) use plenty of anti seize. If your O2 is in a position that allows it to cool off to rapidly or frequently, you can install a heated O2.
Nice work!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-16-2013).]
Finally got around to making the engine mounts. Decided to use Energy Suspension mounts (3.1108g) that others had used. Seemed to be a good universal fit.
Good job on the brackets.
I have 4 of these on my Northstar. I'm convinced that they make clutch chatter worse than it otherwise would be.
I have 4 of these on my Northstar. I'm convinced that they make clutch chatter worse than it otherwise would be.
quote
Originally posted by Reallybig:
I'll second that. While I don't get "chatter", i definitely feel more vibration than I think I would with rubber mounts.
I'll let you know if I notice anything once it's running. Definitely a learning process as it comes together.
Have either of you looked at possible bolt in replacements for these mounts? I'm happy with the brackets that are welded to the cradle and it wouldn't be too big a deal to make a couple of new brackets that bolt to the engine if there is a replacement rubber mount that is close in dimensions. I won't change anything until I've tried these ones.
The urethane mounts are bolt-in replacements for GM OE transmission mounts.
I like the internal construction of these polyurethane mounts (and I love how everything went together), so I'm hoping the vibration isn't an issue. The amount of vibration I end up with will determine if I'll need to look for a replacement. Hoping not to use OEM rubber mounts since I've heard a few negative comments about them. I'm eager to get the engine up and running to see how it looks and feels!
[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 02-01-2014).]
If you're running a single O2, you need the sensor where it can read both banks.
Then it'll definitely be at the Crossover Y. So I guess it wouldn't have worked well anyway if I had fixed the rear O2 sensor hole, since it would have only read the rear bank.
Been a month since I last posted anything, so just wanted to give a quick update.
I took a few weeks off over Christmas, since my kids were both down visiting. (my son also decided to leave his college program last week and has now moved back home...he plans on going to university here instead, so I get an extra pair of hands now!)
I did a couple of minor things on the car, but for the most part stayed out of the garage since it is unheated, no insulation and too damn cold!
Instead I got around to actually ordering several key items that I've been meaning to order. New cradle bolts and 2.8L flywheel bolts (pic below) from the Fiero Store, and most importantly, the new flywheel from LSC Performance Flywheels in California. Cost $275 shipped ($310 CDN) (I use a US address, so I have to pick it up next week when it arrives...about an hour and a half drive, but we do our grocery shopping there once a month anyway).
Next major items will be the clutch, starter motor (Allante) and exhaust...
holy belt wrap batman! looks good. You really don't need that much wrap on the waterpump, but it doesn't hurt anything either.
The advantage of having the idler located there is there is a stock support bracket already right behind it. If the idler were located anywhere else, you would need a much more complex setup to secure it. I'm all for simple!
The advantage of having the idler located there is there is a stock support bracket already right behind it. If the idler were located anywhere else, you would need a much more complex setup to secure it. I'm all for simple!
KISS is always a good rule to follow. if you don't follow it, you end up with a build that's 12 hours(distance) away incomplete waiting for a HTOB...
------------------ we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
..., the new flywheel from LSC Performance Flywheels in California. Cost $275 shipped ($310 CDN) (I use a US address, so I have to pick it up next week when it arrives...about an hour and a half drive, but we do our grocery shopping there once a month anyway).
...
Good price for the Flywheel. Mine costed me 450 $ CDN with a starting price of 280 US + Shipping and Custom.
Good price for the Flywheel. Mine costed me 450 $ CDN with a starting price of 280 US + Shipping and Custom.
It makes a huge difference using a US address for shipping. If I had it shipped directly here, I would have to add another $100 for shipping once you deal with those brokerage fees. (Avoid UPS Standard shipping like the plague unless you like throwing money away.) Living in Ottawa allows us to have a US address (Kinek) since it's a relatively short trip down to New York State. Kinek only charges $5 to receive and store packages for up to 30 days.
Went down to NY today for some groceries and picked up my new custom flywheel from LSC Performance. Thanks Tom!
Total cost...$280.40. Already have the 2.8L flywheel bolts, so I'll see if I can install that tomorrow. (I'm recovering from a back injury, so I've slowed down a bit over the last 2 months, but physio is helping...should be getting back to things full force soon.)
I've also been working on a couple of minor things. Getting the wire harnesses stripped and prepped. I'll post everything about that later once the cradle is back into the car.
Next on the agenda...
-install flywheel -buy/install clutch (stage 3...not sure what brand yet...??) -buy/install Allante starter motor -prep/paint gas tank -replace fuel pump (was going for a standard 2.8L pump, but I plan on adding a turbo later, what's the optimum pump for now...and then??) -fabricate exhaust...I'm really looking forward to this part
[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 02-01-2014).]
Thanks. That's a good price for the pump, and a decent flow rate. I did read that the Walbros tend to burn up if you run them without a fuel supply. I've got a new sender unit, so I'm not worried about that. It was also noted that they are a bit louder than most pumps....I doubt that will bother me, since my stereo is always cranked. It does seem to be a popular pump. Flow and pressure look great.
I also found this for calculating flow requirements:
-For non-boosted engines: HP x 0.5 = how many lbs/hr of fuel the pump will need to supply for this engine. -For boosted (super/turbocharged) engines: HP x 0.65 = how many lbs/hr of fuel the pump will need to supply for this engine. -1 lb/hr of gasoline = about 0.61 lph
Since I'm planning on a low boost turbo (later), in the range of 7-8 psi, I should reach around 300 hp (based on 200 hp without boost). I'll calculate a fuel pump for a boost of 14 psi...approximately 400 hp...just to ensure I never have any fuel starvation. With that, I only need a pump supplying 160 lph. So this pump so give way more flow than I'll ever need, with more than enough pressure. No risk of starvation.
Yup. I recommended that pump because you plan to run a turbo setup in the future. I would run a Fuel Pressure Regulator with it, you can then adjust it in the future when you do finally fit the Turbo setup. Are you still running the stock injectors right now? I am going to be hooking up some Bosch Type III Injectors to my 4.9 soon.
Yes, they're stock for now. I will keep everything stock (other than fuel pump) for now to keep the swap simple and give me a baseline set-up. I'll be doing a number of updates on the top-end to handle the extra power, including injectors, when I work on the turbo. My engine only has 50K miles on it, so I happy with the bottom end. ...and I'm not planning on boosting too high...just enough to allow it to enjoy some higher revs
[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 02-01-2014).]
I've also read about the Walbro's burning up too. Same reason why I was told is because it's metal gears inside, unlike stock plastic gears and require the fuel to cool them off. If you plan on tacking it down the 1/4 mile a lot, I wouldn't suggest this pump. You want to keep the tank as empty as possible for those runs. I have a brand new Walbro sitting on my self never used. I decided to go with an 88 corvette pump with my swap. Friend of mine who is a licensed mechanic used it in his Fiero with LT1 swap. He never had any problem with it.
I've also read about the Walbro's burning up too. Same reason why I was told is because it's metal gears inside, unlike stock plastic gears and require the fuel to cool them off. If you plan on tacking it down the 1/4 mile a lot, I wouldn't suggest this pump. You want to keep the tank as empty as possible for those runs. I have a brand new Walbro sitting on my self never used. I decided to go with an 88 corvette pump with my swap. Friend of mine who is a licensed mechanic used it in his Fiero with LT1 swap. He never had any problem with it.
I can't imagine running any fuel pump with a empty tank to be good for the pump. The Walbro's probably have a lower tolerance for empty tanks because of the metal gears, that also explains why they are a little more noisy. I installed a in tank Walbro 255 in a friends BMW 335i a year ago, its his daily driver and he has never had an issue with it, its much less problematic than the stock BMW Fuel Pumps he was mowing through.
Before I received the LSC Performance flywheel, I had actually modified the 2.5L flywheel. Here's a pic of it installed (just 3 bolts, not torqued). I never bothered to have it refaced, good thing, since I changed my mind and bought the new one.
Here's a pic showing the engine with cleaned up suspension. I'm really happy with the condition of this car considering it's a Canadian car. The PO never brought it out in winter, and it sat in his garage for 10 years until I got it. Not bad for $900 (...and an '88 to boot!)
Watching your swap cause I also have a caddy V8 just sitting in my storage waiting to be used. Mine came out of a 91 Allante with 43,000 miles. It has the fancy intake set-up but only a 4.5L. Main issue is it's externally balanced with a low RPM redline. Was planning on having a shop balance the crankshaft and open up the heads. After market delta cam and whatever springs & pushrod lengths it will require. I know they are not the fastest swaps you can build these days, but going for the uniqueness and fact that as soon as you pop the hood, everybody loves to see a V8
Watching your swap cause I also have a caddy V8 just sitting in my storage waiting to be used. Mine came out of a 91 Allante with 43,000 miles. It has the fancy intake set-up but only a 4.5L. Main issue is it's externally balanced with a low RPM redline. Was planning on having a shop balance the crankshaft and open up the heads. After market delta cam and whatever springs & pushrod lengths it will require. I know they are not the fastest swaps you can build these days, but going for the uniqueness and fact that as soon as you pop the hood, everybody loves to see a V8
I know a lot of people say they aren't happy with the appearance...too busy, cluttered, too many wires. I think I can finish with something that is actually attractive and well organized. I plan on custom building my own intake (above the throttle body, not below...) to give an interesting custom look. I thought of switching to the Allante intake manifold since it is definitely a better design...probably won't yet. Maybe later.
Is the Allante redline because of the external balance? I know the 4.9 runs out of air between 4100-4400 rpm, but can handle about 6000-6500 rpm. This is one reason for the turbo. I'll be interested to see the results if you get the crank balanced. Hope you run a thread on that.
I've also read about the Walbro's burning up too. Same reason why I was told is because it's metal gears inside, unlike stock plastic gears and require the fuel to cool them off. If you plan on tacking it down the 1/4 mile a lot, I wouldn't suggest this pump. You want to keep the tank as empty as possible for those runs. I have a brand new Walbro sitting on my self never used. I decided to go with an 88 corvette pump with my swap. Friend of mine who is a licensed mechanic used it in his Fiero with LT1 swap. He never had any problem with it.
I don't plan on running any 1/4 mile times....burning a few ricers maybe, but to me this isn't the best track swap. Though this is part of a Murcielago swap, I'm more interested in the supercar look, with the occasional quick accelerations to keep wannabes in line This swap won't beat any built cars...however, down the line I do plan on getting another 88 cradle and working on something more exotic. Probably 4-5 years before I jump into something else, but I have thought about a twin turbo, BMW longitudinal V12 swap (full strip / rebuild)....lots of work...but wouldn't that look awesome in the car
I know a lot of people say they aren't happy with the appearance...too busy, cluttered, too many wires. I think I can finish with something that is actually attractive and well organized. I plan on custom building my own intake (above the throttle body, not below...) to give an interesting custom look. I thought of switching to the Allante intake manifold since it is definitely a better design...probably won't yet. Maybe later.
Is the Allante redline because of the external balance? I know the 4.9 runs out of air between 4100-4400 rpm, but can handle about 6000-6500 rpm. This is one reason for the turbo. I'll be interested to see the results if you get the crank balanced. Hope you run a thread on that.
The 4.9L and the Allante 4.5L have the same stock HP rating but because the Allante is externally balanced, it's redline is around 4700 RPM I do believe. While the 4.9L is at 5100 RPM if I recall and is internally balanced already. People have said that you put the Allante intake on the 4.9L you get a 25+ hp increase right away. I've don't know if it's true or not but I do know Pete & Becky (PBJ & her 86GT) and seen Pete's work on the 4.9L turbo set-up he had running. He did a lot of work to that motor and tuning to get a consistent 12.2 quarter mile car. Went through a few trannies through the process too.
Why? That is waaay overkill, and it isnt needed. The 4.9 uses the same pump as the 2.8.....
I recommended it because its readily available and he plans to do a Turbo install in the future, so he wouldn't have to buy another fuel pump. Overkill is better than not enough. Its easily regulated with a Fuel Regulator.
Originally posted by x-thumpr-x: The 4.9L and the Allante 4.5L have the same stock HP rating but because the Allante is externally balanced, it's redline is around 4700 RPM I do believe. While the 4.9L is at 5100 RPM if I recall and is internally balanced already. People have said that you put the Allante intake on the 4.9L you get a 25+ hp increase right away. I've don't know if it's true or not but I do know Pete & Becky (PBJ & her 86GT) and seen Pete's work on the 4.9L turbo set-up he had running. He did a lot of work to that motor and tuning to get a consistent 12.2 quarter mile car. Went through a few trannies through the process too.
Allante Gauges
Yes...I'm expecting to swap out the Isuzu after it fails....inevitable...just not sure when
I'm actually thinking over doing a custom gauge panel for the Murcielago. It'll be the Murcielago dash housing, but I'll likely build my own LCD dash display. As I mentioned before, I'll not interested in a true replica, so, if I can improve on certain area's I will. I have a strong background in electronic design and programming, so I will likely include a custom electronic dash, electronic (touch display) climate control, and a touch navigation system. It won't look stock...but how many people have sat in an actual Murcielago? If I make it look impressive, I've achieved my goal.
This is the dash from TunerPro...I'm thinking of something similar. (with gas gauge and oil pressure...)
No issues returning the belt I didn't need.
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