Installed the flywheel today....however, having a hard time finding the torque specs for it. I seem to remember it being 120 ft/lb...but can't find my reference now. Anyone know the required torque? ...I'll keep looking.
Just wanted to post a couple of pics of a flywheel clamp I just built. This clamp bolts in place and allows the flywheel bolts to be torqued without having to use a screwdriver or something similar to stop the flywheel from turning.
Don't forget to use high-temp locktite on those flywheel bolts. (The white stuff I think). I used removeable blue locktite and it still bothers me in the back of my mind. My socket set has a slight taper at the opening to make it easier to slide over nuts or bolt heads...It didn't leave much meat engaged on those flat flywheel bolt heads. So I ended up filing down the socket a bit so the flywheel bolt head made complete contact with all six sides. Really I was just concerned I might round off the outer edges of the bolts making it impossible to get a propper torque. Enough rambling out of me... Love the flywheel locking bracket!
Don't forget to use high-temp locktite on those flywheel bolts. (The white stuff I think). I used removeable blue locktite and it still bothers me in the back of my mind. My socket set has a slight taper at the opening to make it easier to slide over nuts or bolt heads...It didn't leave much meat engaged on those flat flywheel bolt heads. So I ended up filing down the socket a bit so the flywheel bolt head made complete contact with all six sides. Really I was just concerned I might round off the outer edges of the bolts making it impossible to get a propper torque. Enough rambling out of me... Love the flywheel locking bracket!
Glad you said that about the locktite...I was going to use the blue. I'll get the high-temp stuff instead. That's a good idea with the socket, I'll take a look to see what I can do with that.
Blue is fine as long as you torque the bolts correctly.
Or do you mean a high temp medium strength compound?
I would not want to use red loctite on flywheel bolts... too difficult to remove.
The instructions I read said to use white...not sure if it's a compound... I read the instructions after the flywheel was installed and the engine\trans mounted, just like every guy should. The blue has worked so far without problem and my bolts were torqued to spec. I did read that part in advance though. (getting in touch with my feminine side I guess) My concern is that the best way to remove a bolt that has had loctite is to heat it up and alter the bond of the loctite. Seeing as how the engine gets pretty hot, I would have felt better using the high heat stuff...but I tend to worry too much. On a side note, I made sure to clean out all oil and grease from the threads in the crankshaft so the flywheel bolts and loctite would have clean material to grip onto. Yeah, I was always told that red loctite was permenent...
I've done my share of clutch changing & flywheel resurfacing and have never used any type of Loctite when reinstalling the flywheel. Always been two of us doing the job, one guy on the flywheel while the other is hold the crank steady with a socket & Johnson bar on the other end.
The instructions I read said to use white...not sure if it's a compound... I read the instructions after the flywheel was installed and the engine\trans mounted, just like every guy should. The blue has worked so far without problem and my bolts were torqued to spec. I did read that part in advance though. (getting in touch with my feminine side I guess) My concern is that the best way to remove a bolt that has had loctite is to heat it up and alter the bond of the loctite. Seeing as how the engine gets pretty hot, I would have felt better using the high heat stuff...but I tend to worry too much. On a side note, I made sure to clean out all oil and grease from the threads in the crankshaft so the flywheel bolts and loctite would have clean material to grip onto. Yeah, I was always told that red loctite was permenent...
Thanks for the chart. This was very helpful. As I read it, the temperature rating is the same for the red and blue, just a difference in the strength. I had gone online and everyone has completely different opinions on which to use with no real good answer. However, from the chart, I think blue is the best option.
What did you end up using for a flywheel bolt torque spec? I used 70 lbs, and was worried that it was too much. (The figures that I had to choose from were the stock Caddy flexplate spec, and the manual and automatic Fiero spec. I think I chose the manual Fiero spec.)
What did you end up using for a flywheel bolt torque spec? I used 70 lbs, and was worried that it was too much. (The figures that I had to choose from were the stock Caddy flexplate spec, and the manual and automatic Fiero spec. I think I chose the manual Fiero spec.)
I haven't torqued the bolts yet - I was still trying to figure out the issue of which Loctite to use (I plan on using Blue). I think the manual Fiero spec makes sense to use. What is the spec for the Caddy flexplate? (I've seen many other flywheel specs being a bit higher than 70)
The haynes manual says 50 ftlbs for the fiero flywheel bolts. Their assembly instructions say nothing about loctite. I know that the 2.5 bolts have a different thread pitch than the 2.8 v6 flywheel bolts which I would have thought would have different torque specs. Seeing as how this swap requires using the longer v6 fiero flywheel bolts than the shorter 4.9 flexplate bolts, I would expect to use the fiero v6 flywheel torque specs. That being said, the bolt spacing is tighter on the 4.9 crankshaft than the v6 fiero crank shaft and may require tighter bolts. I don't remember what the 4.9 flexplate torque spec is, but I would suggest going with the higher value of the two.
The dry limit would be 64 ft lbs. (numbers are all based on 75% proof load, so that should give a safety factor of 33%)
Does ARP have M10x1.0 bolts in 12.9+?
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Originally posted by Neils88:
Made a stainless steel plug for the waterpump connection since it's not required.
I did something similar to my Northstar '87 GT. I capped off the Northstar's heater return at the waterpump because the '87/'88 heater return T's into the right side coolant pipe. The result of this is that I didn't have heat until the thermostat opened. This wasn't much fun driving to work on winter mornings.
I swapped to the '86 style heater pipes (and right side coolant pipe) and it took ~1/3 as much time to get heat on a cold morning as it had previously.
Depending on how the coolant flows in a 4.9, you may have a similar problem. Does the 4.9 have a recirculating thermostat?
The stock flexplate bolts are grade 12.9. I'm using the 2.8L bolts from the Fierostore which are grade 11.9. Every writeup I've seen on the 4.9 swap uses the 2.8L bolts, so I don't suspect there will be any issues.
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Originally posted by Will:
I did something similar to my Northstar '87 GT. I capped off the Northstar's heater return at the waterpump because the '87/'88 heater return T's into the right side coolant pipe. The result of this is that I didn't have heat until the thermostat opened. This wasn't much fun driving to work on winter mornings.
I swapped to the '86 style heater pipes (and right side coolant pipe) and it took ~1/3 as much time to get heat on a cold morning as it had previously.
Depending on how the coolant flows in a 4.9, you may have a similar problem. Does the 4.9 have a recirculating thermostat?
Not an issue on the 4.9 with the '88 (not sure about other year Fieros). The outlet from the waterpump has the line that T's off (the one that is capped). The connection that this would go to on the heater, actually T's off just along the Fiero Coolant line. In other words, six of one, half dozen of the other. It's just easier to use the pre-plumbed Fiero connection than trying to run the extra line to the water pump. No difference in the plumbing circuit.
Clutch arrived. I ended up ordering a Kupp stage 3 (6 puck). It rated well, can handle the power...and since I'll be likely switching to an automatic with paddle shifters once the Isuzu blows up, I think a cost effective solution.
Everything together now...
I'm now working on the exhaust and the starting the wiring.
I've been working on a couple things....exhaust, vacuum hoses and electrical. I've now done a quick dry fit install just to confirm clearances...
Small interference with the valve cover...have to grind the corner off the bracket.
This looks tight, but it actually has lots of clearance...I'll be removing the insulation. Thought I could keep the stock look, but realistically it just holds dirt and gets in the way.
There is actually more clearance to the battery tray than I thought. However, I'll probably move the battery up front and remove the tray anyway.
I'm really happy with how this looks! Can't wait to finish...
The outlet from the waterpump has the line that T's off (the one that is capped). The connection that this would go to on the heater, actually T's off just along the Fiero Coolant line.
The line you capped off is the heater core return nipple. The heater core is fed by the rear facing nipple on the thermostat housing. 84-86 need to use the capped off nipple, 87-88 can use the nipple on the under car coolant tube.
The line you capped off is the heater core return nipple. The heater core is fed by the rear facing nipple on the thermostat housing. 84-86 need to use the capped off nipple, 87-88 can use the nipple on the under car coolant tube.
My point in mentioning the Northstar is to say that on that engine, with the heater core return at the engine capped off and using the '87 heater return, it takes a long time to get heat in the winter. This is because there's no heater core circulation until the thermostat opens. Is the 4.9 the same way?
The heater core loop on the 4.9 is continuous. Feed to the core is on the engine side of the t-stat. If you look at the picture of the water neck on Neil's install, the t-stat lives between the water neck and the large bolt-on nipple for the large diameter coolant hose.
Pulled the engine back out again today...nice to have cradle bolts that don't stick
I ground away a small clearance spot on the passenger side hinge bracket, removed the battery tray and removed all the insulation from the sides. Going to keep the insulation on the firewall. It's in good shape and worth having. There are a couple of areas where there is a bit of surface rust (where the battery tray was and below the dogbone bracket). I'll prep and paint those before the engine goes back in.
I'm not wild about gluing things to the firewall, though.
Thanks Will. Great links! I really like the pattern that's available in the second link.
I'm keeping the firewall insulation for the moment, but since Phase II of the project is the body-kit, I'll be replacing the insulation after I do the frame stretch. I'll be doing a more complete job of stripping, prepping and refinishing the cradle and engine bay at that time. That second link will likely be a time-saver!
I went down to the local Pick-n-pull (Kenny U-Pull) and looked around for a bit. Really nothing good there. The best thing I found was when I popped the hood on a Chevy Tahoe. A bird flew out...and I noticed a nest with two tiny blue eggs. Thought I about picking them up and installing them in my swap, but since they were already installed on a 5.7L I wasn't sure if they'd be compatible with the 4.9L I just left them and moved on.
Finally received the exhaust parts from Summit and Jones Exhaust. Went with a Catco Catalytic Converter and a Jones Full Boar muffler. The main pipes are 2 1/2". I modified the stock crossover pipe (1 3/4", and created a Y connection. Since I forgot to order a Oxygen Sensor bung, I machined my own and welded it to the Y pipe.
I should point out that all the welding is done with a 120A flux core welder. Since I only have 4 heat settings, I have to use a stitch weld...basically small tack welds in sequence around the pipe. It gives great penetration and eliminates the normal problem of blow through that you get with cheaper welders that are inherently too hot. Not the prettiest welds, but functional.
The pipes will be cut back a bit and I'll add some nice chrome tips to dress the exhaust up. (singles? duals? )
Added a coat of VHT to the exhaust to dress it up a bit.
Time to finally install the engine (hopefully permanently...)
I removed the side insulation...much cleaner finish. The engine fits perfectly with no interference anywhere.
Now starts the fun of hooking everything up...
[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 05-19-2014).]
You will want to wrap the exhaust crossover pipe - the stock pipe 4.9 had a heat shield, even with the shield the pipe puts a lot of heat in the engine compartment. DEI make some black wrap that looks pretty nice. Nice work.
You will want to wrap the exhaust crossover pipe - the stock pipe 4.9 had a heat shield, even with the shield the pipe puts a lot of heat in the engine compartment. DEI make some black wrap that looks pretty nice. Nice work.
It was on my to do list...which still seems endless...
I'll check out the DEI black wrap, that would definitely compliment the look I was going for. Thanks for the tip!
Connected the clutch slave cylinder and the oxygen sensor. Still have to bleed the clutch, since I ended up getting air in the line. I was a bit worried that despite all my careful measurements the O2 sensor wouldn't fit in that position. Turns out if fits great and is easy to access.
Hooked up the throttle linkage cable. I had the '88 2.5L so the cable is a direct connect. Have to find a good place to secure the cable so it doesn't rub against the exhaust manifold. The gas pedal felt really light when I tested it, but it operates the throttle body through the full range of motion, so no worries.
Hooked up a couple of vacuum lines. Not thrilled with these, so may change them at a later date and find a better way to route them.
The first step was to remove all wraps and tape from the harnesses leaving just bare wires. I finally sold the 2.5L and included all the connectors with it. Of course that meant cutting them off the old Fiero harness which turned it into a rats nest....not a great way to start my wiring...
I went through the harnesses and separated each connector. I labeled the connector, coiled up the wires and then labeled them indicating the name of the wire and the corresponding circuit number in accordance with the circuit diagrams. I also repeated that with the ECM connectors, the C500, the C203 and ALDL. I then went through and confirmed that all connections matched and none had been overlooked. A little bit of care now should save me tons of time later on.
The TACH connector wire will run directly from the distributor to C500 C3
I'm impressed that you were able to see that I was missing that wire just by looking at all my wire bundles sitting on the table...
I spent 4 hours on the weekend at the local pick-n-pull. The tach wire was one of the top items on my list...but not a single one to be found! I found one on eBay for $8 with free shipping, not sure where else to get one locally so I'll probably order that one.
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Are you swapping the 2 pin CTS for a 3 pin version so you can also run the gauge? That is the way I prefer to do it.
Yes. I picked up a new 3 pin sensor and connector. Didn't want to lose the gauge.
[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 05-21-2014).]
The TACH wire was used on many GM HEI distributors. Look at the 80s trucks. Small block Chev V8s. It's the same coil in cap arrangement at the top. The guts are different along with the lower unit, but from the rotor up it's a GM HEI distributor.
...I'll keep looking.
)
I found one on eBay for $8 with free shipping, not sure where else to get one locally so I'll probably order that one.
