The screw driver method works well for bearings or noise that's transmitted via physical contact, but lousy for listening to noise made by a component in a cavity--like valve covers.
Without wanting to open up a debate on oil types and additives (there are enough threads on that already), the picture below shows off the next step dealing with the ticking sound.
I didn't want to drop the engine cradle enough to pull the forward valve cover, the apparent source of the noise (at least at that particular moment since I didn't have a mechanics stethoscope at the time). The noise still sounded like it could be a possible stuck lifter. I was worried that the cheaper oil I had used may have caused some issues. I decided that I would do a complete engine flush, change the filter, and then switch to synthetic oil. I've got to say, there was a lot of crap in the oil when I drained it after the flush In addition to the Pennzoil Platinum, I also added a can of the Wynn's Engine Tune Up, which promises to help fix stuck lifters. I didn't really expect results, but thought I'd give it a try.
The engine did seem to run a bit smoother afterwards, but the tick was still there.
Awesome! The new oil filter is solid black Fits the look I'm going for. I'll be getting black exhaust wrap shortly which will also improve the appearance.
As pointed out by Olejoedad, I really needed to locate the issue before tearing into the engine. I finally got the mechanics stethoscope. I was a little surprised when I couldn't find the ticking noise. Checked everywhere, but nothing....on a bright note, that opened the question as to whether or not this was actually a valvetrain issue Next I used a spark tester on every plug wire, at the distributor. I had pulled each wire previously, but that not a great way to properly test the spark quality. The tester gives a fixed gap, placed inline of each wire one at a time. Every wire had a spark, but the spark on cylinder #6 (rear bank) seemed just not quite as strong as the others. I followed the wire to the spark plug...it actually wasn't plugged onto the spark plug It was just resting on the manifold. The downside is that the boot is now burnt and cracked, so I'll have to get a new wire to replace it....hopefully I can locate another set of Accel custom yellow wires. Until then, I plugged it back on and the engine now purrs like a kitten again Took it out for another test drive, it's got all it's power back. No vibrations, smooth shifting, tons of power! ...and best of all...no more ticking noise!
Engine still stalls when stopping unless I give it a shot of gas when I push in the clutch. One shot of gas, then no issues. This should be something I can tune out of it....next step tuning!! wahoooooooo!!!!!!
Finally got around to putting the ZIF onto the memcal. On the first memcal, I had just used a DIP socket, but that's obviously not the best thing if the EPROM is being pulled out all the time. I had also melted lots of the plastic while learning how to solder the socket in place. I got hold of another memcal and cut the chips off. As you can see from the pic below, I left the legs of the old chips on the memcal. The legs from the old chips are perfect points to solder the sockets to. Since I had made a mess of the first memcal, I put sockets for all three chips (the new memcal was not from a Fiero). Only need a ZIF for the EPROM.
I used the stock chip just to check everything was working properly, then switched to a modded EPROM. The first mod just has the VATS and EGR deleted. The EGR delete seems to have fixed my stalling problem.
Yes, I wanted to stay with the stock PCM for this swap. I've done lots of swaps in the past, but believe it or not this is my first EFI swap. Wanted to keep things simple on the first (first of many to come) and use it as a learning experience.
Interesting... I would have thought that would be more related to auto vs. stick idle follower settings.
I agree. ... but that was the only change made to the chip. If the EGR was the problem then I would have expected a good cleaning to solve the problem. There may be an underlying issue that I'm missing. .. but it works for now, so I'll be happy any way lol.
Interesting... I would have thought that would be more related to auto vs. stick idle follower settings.
As far as I know there are no settings for a manual transmission. It would be nice to try to come up with some. I think the system could work even better for a manual than it already does.
The idle control system in the 4.9 is a bit different. There are 2 different idle speeds to deal with. A stopped/base idle speed and an idle speed just above ~5mph (moving idle speed). Its adjusted by turning the ISC (idle speed control) adjustment screw. Keep in mind you have to remain within a certain TPS voltage range for it to work properly (1.15v-1.2v I believe). It also relies on values set in the memcal. The ISC also contains the throttle switch to tell the PCM when throttle is not being applied.
There is also a minimum idle speed adjustment screw in the throttle body. For a normal 4.9 this minimum screw is set to approx 500-550rpm (ISC removed or retracted).
Once the TPS and ISC screw are adjusted properly the system works pretty well. The PCM also has an idle learn function which will adjust for carbon buildup on the throttle body and other slight changes. Over time my 4.9 getrag car has changed the moving idle speed from around 1400rpm down to about 1100.
So the PCM sends a signal to the ISC to adjust moving idle speed based on the TPS readings but only when the throttle is released and only above ~5mph. Below 5mph base idle speed is set.
Now that I've adjusted to it I actually like the moving idle speed with the manual trans. Downshifting is easier because the car is already at about 1100-1200rpm instead of 800.
Other causes of stalling are EGR, missing +12v to power steering input on PCM, VSS wires reversed. The 2240 PCM is an odd one but it works great for me.
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-18-2014).]
I've been meaning to try it but in theory one could re-adjust the min idle screw for a higher RPM once all other idle speed settings are done. The min idle screw is used for setting the TPS to its initial value. After the inital TPS setting the ISC screw is adjusted. TPS/Idle learn procedure is then performed storing these values for future calculations. I believe this is the point where you can readjust the min idle screw for a higher RPM for use with a manual transmission. After the idle learn is done the throttle plate should never rest on it min idle screw. The min idle screw is just a set screw. Entirely mechanical.
So turning it up after all other settings are done should give faster recovery a stumble maybe even preventing a stall. Just a theory.
min idle screw = min air adjustment, also used once to set base TPS reading for idle speed control system ISC+TPS+PCM = idle speed control system
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-18-2014).]
I think the Hornet piece looks great. Could paint it black underneath the letters and maybe on those side angles, and you need a coupler that isnt blue.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-19-2014).]
I think the Hornet piece looks great. Could paint it black underneath the letters and maybe on those side angles, and you need a coupler that isnt blue.
Hoping you wouldn't notice the coupling I plan on changing the coupling and will be making an engine cover. Not sure if the engine cover will go over the intake or under it. Originally I had planned for it to go over. ... but looking at it lately I may cover the engine and leave the intake itself exposed. If it is exposed then I'll paint it black under the logo.
As far as I know there are no settings for a manual transmission. It would be nice to try to come up with some. I think the system could work even better for a manual than it already does.
The idle control system in the 4.9 is a bit different. There are 2 different idle speeds to deal with. A stopped/base idle speed and an idle speed just above ~5mph (moving idle speed). Its adjusted by turning the ISC (idle speed control) adjustment screw. Keep in mind you have to remain within a certain TPS voltage range for it to work properly (1.15v-1.2v I believe). It also relies on values set in the memcal. The ISC also contains the throttle switch to tell the PCM when throttle is not being applied.
There is also a minimum idle speed adjustment screw in the throttle body. For a normal 4.9 this minimum screw is set to approx 500-550rpm (ISC removed or retracted).
Once the TPS and ISC screw are adjusted properly the system works pretty well. The PCM also has an idle learn function which will adjust for carbon buildup on the throttle body and other slight changes. Over time my 4.9 getrag car has changed the moving idle speed from around 1400rpm down to about 1100.
So the PCM sends a signal to the ISC to adjust moving idle speed based on the TPS readings but only when the throttle is released and only above ~5mph. Below 5mph base idle speed is set.
Now that I've adjusted to it I actually like the moving idle speed with the manual trans. Downshifting is easier because the car is already at about 1100-1200rpm instead of 800.
Other causes of stalling are EGR, missing +12v to power steering input on PCM, VSS wires reversed. The 2240 PCM is an odd one but it works great for me.
Thanks for all the great info! My idle is set well and seems to respond properly to both settings. The other issues that cause stalling had already been addressed when I did the original wiring.
Thanks for all the great info! My idle is set well and seems to respond properly to both settings. The other issues that cause stalling had already been addressed when I did the original wiring.
Hey Neils, just curious, exactly how did you "delete" the EGR from the computer.. a simple check engine code delete, or did you change the turn on/off thresholds for the EGR solenoid? I hope you weren't using tundercats program to adjust the EGR, more than 50% of the variables are incorrect in that program.
Hey Neils, just curious, exactly how did you "delete" the EGR from the computer.. a simple check engine code delete, or did you change the turn on/off thresholds for the EGR solenoid? I hope you weren't using tundercats program to adjust the EGR, more than 50% of the variables are incorrect in that program.
Actually I'm not sure. ... Phonedawgz is helping me with the tuning. Perhaps he can answer the question....
1. The donor Deville had been driven regularly until a month or so before I got the engine. 2. Yes, I heard it running. And I've had it running for about a month now. I've put about 60 km on it (~40 miles)...it has run a little rough, which I've assumed was dirty injectors, but basically sounded nice with no bad sounds. 3. Ummmmm......well......maybe..........this engine just seemed to love accelerating. If my tach is accurate, then I've hit 5500 rpm under power (just once). Which actually surprised me since I was expecting it to run out air around 4400 rpm as so many people have stated
did you modify the stock redline? stock redline on these is 5300, but should never be able to hit that if your tire size is dialed in correctly and your shift points havent been altered...feel free to drop me an email if you need help working out any computer tuning related issues. tunercat is good software, but the cadillac definition files they offer have alot of errors as far as variable placement. I program chips for people, but for the do-it yourself crowd like you, i offer free advice to help you get your ECM dialed in.
I think the Hornet piece looks great. Could paint it black underneath the letters and maybe on those side angles, and you need a coupler that isnt blue.
yeah, definitely looks very sharp, huge improvement over stock...
one suggestion:
extend the intake tube further into the sidewall, and move the filter to the outside, OR, create some kind of shield to prevent the heat soaked air from the engine bay from getting pulled into the air filter. The 4.9L runs significantly better with a consistent source of cold air. you will notice a significant improvement in both gas economy and seat of the pants acceleration, especially around town
Overall man, i have to say , this is a very pleasing thread to follow, you're attention to detail is very nice, and i like your creative solutions that you come up with to your issues.
yeah, definitely looks very sharp, huge improvement over stock...
one suggestion:
extend the intake tube further into the sidewall, and move the filter to the outside, OR, create some kind of shield to prevent the heat soaked air from the engine bay from getting pulled into the air filter. The 4.9L runs significantly better with a consistent source of cold air. you will notice a significant improvement in both gas economy and seat of the pants acceleration, especially around town
Thanks
I'll definitely extend the tubing and build an airbox.
did you modify the stock redline? stock redline on these is 5300, but should never be able to hit that if your tire size is dialed in correctly and your shift points havent been altered...feel free to drop me an email if you need help working out any computer tuning related issues. tunercat is good software, but the cadillac definition files they offer have alot of errors as far as variable placement. I program chips for people, but for the do-it yourself crowd like you, i offer free advice to help you get your ECM dialed in.
Not sure if he's altered the limiter, but he's using a manual trans...
I just wanted to give a quick update. I am happy to say that the swap is finished. (I still do have to make an engine cover, but that is just cosmetic). I tallied up all my receipts and the final price of the swap came in at $2,658.32 (Cdn). This includes the block, all parts, nuts, bolts, hardware, metal, paint, oil, coolant etc... It does not include any tools that I had to purchase along the way.
I also want to say a special thanks to Stickpony! He did an amazing job programming my ECM. The car runs and sounds incredible now! Thanks Aaron!!
[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 02-22-2017).]
I'll read the second phase asap. My project has a long way to go, plus I still have to sort out exactly what I have. They did a good job on the swap and mounts, but the electronics are gonna be a mess. May go with a carb and converted distributor initially just to get it going. Not sure if the original ecm is still there. Don't see any of the harness, so??? It's ok. I've been swapping motors since I was 14. Wow, that was 42 years ago!! Worked on a ton of 4.9's when I worked at the local Cad dealer 20 years ago. Thanks for the info. Have a great day!!
I'll read the second phase asap. My project has a long way to go, plus I still have to sort out exactly what I have. They did a good job on the swap and mounts, but the electronics are gonna be a mess. May go with a carb and converted distributor initially just to get it going. Not sure if the original ecm is still there. Don't see any of the harness, so??? It's ok. I've been swapping motors since I was 14. Wow, that was 42 years ago!! Worked on a ton of 4.9's when I worked at the local Cad dealer 20 years ago. Thanks for the info. Have a great day!!
There's a few people here that have done the carb conversion. Not sure if that will be easier, or much more work. The wiring harness really wasn't that tough (a lot of people are nervous to touch it). As long as you have a connector to plug into each sensor, the rest is just running the wire where you want it and then matching the wire to the ECM connectors according to the wiring diagram. You sound like you have more than enough experience on 4.9s, lol, so either way should work well. Make sure you do a build thread! It's a great way to pass on your skills, tricks and knowledge. I'll look forward to reading it!
In addition to the Pennzoil Platinum, I also added a can of the Wynn's Engine Tune Up, which promises to help fix stuck lifters. I didn't really expect results, but thought I'd give it a try.
Fits the look I'm going for. I'll be getting black exhaust wrap shortly which will also improve the appearance.
It was just resting on the manifold. The downside is that the boot is now burnt and cracked, so I'll have to get a new wire to replace it....hopefully I can locate another set of Accel custom yellow wires. Until then, I plugged it back on and the engine now purrs like a kitten again 
Took it out for another test drive, it's got all it's power back. No vibrations, smooth shifting, tons of power! ...and best of all...no more ticking noise!
