Do I bottom out the studs or do I leave a couple of threads loose? Seeing differing opinions in my search.

Also one said anti-seize on the end going into the head. Another said no.

Jonathan

Disconnecting the Auto trans. How do I do this part?



Does it just pop off with a little prying? Is it prone to breaking? Any other concerns?

Jonathan

I've been tearing into the bad engine. Here's what I found. A broken spark plug, some broken stuff inside the spark plug hole, and some valve damage.







I have both engines stripped down now. Next step is to separate the engines from the trannys.

------------------
Jonathan

'68-69 GTO Nose - The Project has Begun!
My '85 L67 Build Thread

You've dropped a valve. It's probably as terminal as it sounds.
What you're seeing in the spark plug hole is what's left of the valve and piston.
Pieces of those are what wiped out the spark plug.

Edit - I dont't remember if I put anti-seize on my exhaust studs or not. Probably wouldn't hurt.
I was tempted to say that anti seize or blue threadlocker would work. Anything to keep rust out of the threads. But I don't know how threadlocker reacts to the high temps around the exhaust port.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-06-2013).]

Thanks Raydar. Now I can tell people what happened to my engine!

When using exhaust studs, do I use the same torque values on the nuts as is listed for the original bolts?

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: When using exhaust studs, do I use the same torque values on the nuts as is listed for the original bolts?

I'm not sure. If they have lock nuts, you will probably see higher torque values than the originals. Otherwise, I'd think they would be about the same.
I didn't torque mine. I just used the "get it real tight but try not to break it" method. (Sorry. I know that's not helpful.)
(The ones I used were purchased from Rodney, I think. Regardless of where they came from, they were the Saturn studs and locknuts, if that helps.)

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-07-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I'm not sure. If they have lock nuts, you will probably see higher torque values than the originals. Otherwise, I'd think they would be about the same. I didn't torque mine. I just used the "get it real tight but try not to break it" method. (Sorry. I know that's not helpful.) (The ones I used were purchased from Rodney, I think. Regardless of where they came from, they were the Saturn studs and locknuts, if that helps.)

I got the set from The Fiero Store. They do not have lock nuts. I have them installed and the gaskets and manifolds on. The threads and nuts rotate on VERY smoothly. So smooth they almost feel cheap if that makes any sense. I'm going to use stock torque and only torque the nuts. I figure the studs will tighten at the same time. I only put enough torque on the studs to get them inserted. Before that I chased the threads with a new tap and used Never-seez.

Jonathan

The engine is separated from the trans and is off the cradle. The flexplate is off also even though it is still on in this pic. Today I'll separate the 87 V6 from the Getrag and mate it to the automatic. Then, if there's any daylight left, I'll start putting all the wirining and other stuff back on the long block. Hopefully, the car will be running and driving tomorrow.





Jonathan

Got the good engine mated to the auto tranny today. Got some parts cleaned and painted, too. My block is all rusty but my brackets and stuff should turn out nice. I wonder how the overall appearance will look.

Jonathan

I suspect it will look pretty much like a V6 Fiero engine.
Sorry... Had to.

All kidding aside, I find that they're a lot easier to clean up when they're sitting on the floor, and not in the car. It will make a difference.

I hope everything goes smoothly.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-11-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I suspect it will look pretty much like a V6 Fiero engine.

Surprisingly, it is looking more and more like a Fiero V6 as the hours pass! I just can't explain it!

Here's a new question: I'm guessing some water has entered the engine since it has been sitting out for quite some time even thought it has been covered. I feel like I should change the oil very soon but I want to make sure that it will start first. Is there something I should add to the oil, like Sea Foam, and let it run and get hot for about 30 minutes before I change the oil? What is the best way to make sure I get all the old nasty oil out?

Jonathan

If it's been sitting, I would be more concerned about water vapor (and rust) in the cylinders.
I've heard it said that a teaspoon of ATF in each cylinder will help to lubricate the rings to prevent an abrasive start-up.
(Someone may suggest something other than ATF, and that's fine. Going by memory, here.)

If you're worried about water having condensed in the oil, I would go ahead and change it before you install the engine. Based upon density, any water should have sunk to the bottom of the pan, anyway. Once you have fresh oil in the pan, you might take a drill and a priming tool (made from an old distributor) and pump fresh oil through the engine, until it comes out of the pushrods.
If you remove the distributor, either pay attention to the position of the housing and rotor, or be prepared to find TDC on #1 (a cakewalk with the valve covers removed) and to reinstall the distributor in the #1 firing position.

My first thought was to save some money in case I couldn't get the engine to fire for whatever reason. Then I realized, what good is a running engine if the first thing I do is pump bad oil through it? I'm gonna take your advice and do the oil change before start-up. I'm also going to take my advice and add the Sea Foam to it. Then I'm going to get it up to temp and run it for about 45 minutes and change the oil again. Obviously no guarantees on a 25 year old engine especially after sitting for a couple of years but we do what we can.

Before rotating the engine internals by the crank pully bolt, I did add a shot of oil into each cylinder. I have had to turn the engine over a few times during the swap process so that makes me feel better about its condition. The area under the valve covers looked nice and clean too.

Jonathan

Will I need to have my alignment re-done when it's back on the road? The front wasn't changed in any way but the rear was obviously dropped. Just the top three nuts on the struts were removed and the cradle was dropped out. Nothing else was loosened or stressed.

Jonathan

Yes, where the struts bolt to the uprights, there is adjustment for camber, it's nearly impossible to get it back to exactly the same spot by eyeball, and if your cambered in or out it will also affect toe toe setting.

Joe

quote Originally posted by motoracer838: Yes, where the struts bolt to the uprights, there is adjustment for camber, it's nearly impossible to get it back to exactly the same spot by eyeball, and if your cambered in or out it will also affect toe toe setting. Joe

I didn't loosen the two big bolts at the bottom of the struts that adjust the camber. Now what do you think?

Jonathan

If you can get the strut tops situated exactly as they were before you removed them, then you should be OK. When you removed the big pill-shaped washers, they should have left "witness marks" on the chassis. That will help you get them lined up.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: If you can get the strut tops situated exactly as they were before you removed them, then you should be OK. When you removed the big pill-shaped washers, they should have left "witness marks" on the chassis. That will help you get them lined up.

In that case, things may be off a bit. I put the "town house crackers" back where they looked good.

Jonathan

I've had several cradles dropped out by disconnecting at the top of the strut towers the way Boostdreamer did. A couple of the cars have been done more than once. None of them required realignment and no special precautions were taken to get anything back in the exact original location. Were we lucky?

I got her started today! Took about 10 cranks to get her going but she idled just fine after that.

I let it run for about 30 minutes at idle and then gave it some good revs. The temperature climbed all the way up to the red and the radiator fan never came on. That was a problem this engine had before. Does that sound like a bad sensor?

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: I let it run for about 30 minutes at idle and then gave it some good revs. The temperature climbed all the way up to the red and the radiator fan never came on. That was a problem this engine had before. Does that sound like a bad sensor?

Chances are it's one of 3 things:

1) Fan Motor
2) Fan Relay
3) Temperature Switch

There are three simple checks you can use to track down the problem.

1) Turn on the A/C with the engine running, which bypasses the temperature switch.
2) Unplug the wire from the temperature switch and ground it to the engine block or the chassis. This also bypasses the switch.
3) Connect a jumper wire between the red wire and black/red wire on the fan relay. This will send battery power directly to the fan motor.

If test 1 and 2 turn on the fan, the temperature switch is bad. If not, then retry test 2, while someone listens to the fan relay. If the relay doesn't click, it's bad. If the relay clicks, it's good, which means the fan motor is bad. Also, if test 3 doesn't turn on the fan, the fan motor is bad.

Of course, this is assuming the wiring is good. If you have a broken wire or a bad electrical plug somewhere, then all bets are off.

It worked correctly before the engine swap. The AC does activate the radiator fan. Both cooling tubes were hot on both front and rear ends. I took the wiring harness off and put it back on. It was in really good shape. Must be something specific to this engine.

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by Boostdreamer: I got her started today! Took about 10 cranks to get her going but she idled just fine after that. ...

Excellent! I'm happy that everything came together. Congrats!

The oil thing was pretty scary. In addition to the one after the short drive, I'd be tempted to do yet another oil change at ~500 miles or so, in case any rust flakes come off from inside the pan or anywhere else. It would be bad if your filter clogged up with particles, and the bypass opened.
Not trying to be paranoid - just careful.

Other people may have suggestions as well.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Make sure that the fan switch/sensor was not installed with teflon tape. It can make an excellent electrical insulator. Not the best idea when the circuit is looking for a ground, through the casting.

No tape. Got it!! What about some sort of thread dope?

Jonathan

Should be fine, as long as it allows metal to metal contact between the sensor shell and the manifold.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Should be fine, as long as it allows metal to metal contact between the sensor shell and the manifold.

Cool. I got that changed. Checked my idiot lights and they all seem good.

Next concern. I was putting my brake calipers back on and I noticed that I was able to rotate the axles by turning the lugs. This is an automatic and the selector is in Park. I thought the selector was mis-aligned so I started the car and put it into Reverse. The passenger side only was rotating in reverse. Put it back in Park and both axles are still free to rotate.

I did loose some fluid and the car has not been driven yet. Do either of theses two facts have anything to do with the trans not being locked in Park? Something to worry about? Just needs fluid?

Jonathan

With the wheels off the ground, the transmission will do funny things. For example, only spinning one wheel when it's in gear. That's normal. Also, with the transmission in Park, if you turn one wheel by hand, the other one should turn in the opposite direction. But if you try to turn both wheels in the same direction, they won't turn.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: With the wheels off the ground, the transmission will do funny things. For example, only spinning one wheel when it's in gear. That's normal. Also, with the transmission in Park, if you turn one wheel by hand, the other one should turn in the opposite direction. But if you try to turn both wheels in the same direction, they won't turn.

Yep, you got this one right. I used a crow bar to scotch one hub then tried to turn the other one in the same direction that I had blocked on the first. It was locked at that point. I didn't test further. I figured everything was normal.

I took the car out for a spin tonight. Just got back a few minutes ago, actually. Here it is 12:25 am. Prolly ought to go to bed but I seriously smell like fuel. I was only getting one code and it was 45. That is a rich fuel condition. I'm going to change the coolant temperature sensor that goes to the ECM to see if that cures the problem. Remember, I had similar problems with this engine in the past so I don't think there's anything wrong with the wiring, etc. The car ran well for the most part. Some hesitation but hopefully that is part of the Code situation. I also have a few MAP sensors to swap around. That will be my second step if step one doesn't do it.

Jonathan

Cool deal. You're almost done... just some minor bugs to work out. Give yourself a pat on the back, and a cold beer.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Cool deal. You're almost done... just some minor bugs to work out. Give yourself a pat on the back, and a cold beer.

Thanks!! I wish I could give you another plus!! You've been a big help. Thank you.

Jonathan

Good to hear that it's in and running, with just a few bugs.



What are you going to do for an encore?

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-17-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Good to hear that it's in and running, with just a few bugs. What are you going to do for an encore?

I suppose for my encore, I should finnish the iGTO bumper!! LOL By the way, Raydar, I can't give you another + either. Wish I could!

This morning, I changed the oil & filter and swapped the coolant sensor. As I was removing the oil filter, I noticed that it had very little oil in it. DEFINATELY not full! I had filled it up with fresh oil before installation and was getting normal oil pressure readings on my Aux gauge. What do you make of that?

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 10-17-2013).]

Due to the angle, you shouldn't get a full filter. If I recall, mine have only been about half full upon removal. The amount that runs down my arm to my armpit wouldn't change that amount appreciably.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Due to the angle, you shouldn't get a full filter. If I recall, mine have only been about half full upon removal. The amount that runs down my arm to my armpit wouldn't change that amount appreciably.

I hope that's all it was. I ran it for over an hour before changeing the oil so if there was a pressure problem or pick-up problem, surely it would have been obvious by then.

I'm also pleased to report that the oil I drained out was a nice shiny black. No chocolate and no water. Glad I did that. The fact that the oil was black also tells me that it was circulating. I hate those nagging worries!

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 10-17-2013).]

When you unscrewed the filter, did some oil come pouring out? If so, then you're good to go.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: When you unscrewed the filter, did some oil come pouring out? If so, then you're good to go.

Some, but it just didn't seem like much. I was using the long AC Delco filters.

Jonathan