Oh man, I am so close!! I pulled the EGR solinoid off and blew through it on the filtered air end. It felt like I popped something loose that had been lodged in there. Then I replaced the jumper line with a solid piece of rubber hose. Put it back on and went for a test drive. After about 15 miles, the SES light came on for a few seconds and went back out. That was it!
Pulled codes and the only one recorded was Code 44 Lean Fuel Condition. Dare I say I cured my Code 32? It had been staying on full time so there is a definite improvement! As for the Code 44, I have not checked the other exhaust manifold yet. That could very well be the last of this puzzle. I think I'll crawl under there tomorrow morning and see if I can tighten those nuts some more before leaving for school.
The forward exhaust manifold nuts were also loose. Got them all tightened down. No more Code 44 but Code 32 is back. It took about 20 minutes of driving to come back but when it does, the light comes on and STAYS on!
This car is like a code machine! I jumpered the contacts on the EGR harness that is supposed to eliminate the Code 32 from appearing.
I think that is working. However, now my Code 44 is back and it brought a friend; Code 13! I checked the main page about Code 13 and it mentions the TPS. I went ahaead and swapped back to my original one. I don't remember that first swap making any noticable improvments and my O2 sensor is a BRAND FREAKING NEW AC Delco part! That better not be failing!
Went to look for Code 44 problems. I put my fuel pressure gauge back on and it maxes out at 37psi. It also is bleeding the pressure off after shutdown again! Crap! Looks like swapping fuel rails didn't help. I decided to look closer at the injectors that I had just taken out. Apparently, just checking to see if they "click" when you apply 9V is not enough. All but one of the regular injectors would click but none of them would hold pressure. I did the cleaning routine shown here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/126215.html
I got all of them working correctly except for one of the main injectors and also the cold start injector.
Is the cold start injector supposed to work and test like the other injectors? Is it supposed to click when you apply 9V? Is it supposed to spray when pressurized and energized? Mine doesn't.
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 11-10-2013).]
I pulled the fuel rail off the car and removed one injector. I cleaned it like the others and now it will hold pressure also. I put new rubber o-rings on all the injectors and put them on my spare fuel rail. I got the Dorman kit from Advance Auto for $7.50 and it had enough o-rings for all the injectors. Much better price than the Felpro kit. I did notice that the 86 and 87 injectors are different. I have swapped them around so much, I don't know which ones are which. As it is, I have five injectors with the metal tips and one with a plastic tip. I did another fuel pressure test and the pressure holds very well now.
Much better than before. Before I could watch the needle drop. Now it kept most of its pressure for 20 minutes or so while I inspected my plastic vacuum hoses. All of the plastic lines are in good shape but some of the end connectors were questionable. I did some swapping there and put all of that back on.
Went for a drive (I still have the EGR harness jumped) and I got the Code 44 for just a few seconds. Car runs great. At least the Code 13 was gone. I'll drive it some more tomorrow and prolly have about six new codes! Wouldn't surprise me at this point.
Code 13 has not come back since I changed the TPS, the injectors, and the vacuum lines. I still have the EGR harness jumpered and that has prevented Code 32 from coming back so far. The only code I have now is 44 and it only comes on for a few seconds as I'm cresting a long straight hill on the interstate at 60 mph. I think I'll re-connect the EGR harness and see if the new injectors and vacuum hoses fixed the Code 32. I suspect the Code 44 to be loose exhaust manifolds. I will just live with it until December when I pull the engine out again for rear main seal replacement. If the Code 44 is still present, I'll switch to the VW Bug exhaust gaskets.
I plugged the EGR harness back in today to see what would happen. Constant Code 32. Disconnected it and put the jumper back in!
I stopped at our local air-cooled VW mechanic and bought 6 exhaust gaskets. $4.50 out the door. Sweet.
I have not worked on my gas tank problem. I wonder if the Code 32 could be related to it in some way? I need to either add the expansion tank and figure out what is preventing the tank from venting and equalizing pressure or put the 86 tank back in.
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 11-13-2013).]
I plugged the EGR harness back in today to see what would happen. Constant Code 32. Disconnected it and put the jumper back in!
I have not worked on my gas tank problem. I wonder if the Code 32 could be related to it in some way? I need to either add the expansion tank and figure out what is preventing the tank from venting and equalizing pressure or put the 86 tank back in.
Jonathan
I had a code 32 problem with my original Fiero back around 86. That problem turned out to be a blown solenoid driver transistor on the ECM mother board. The switch you are jumpering at the ERG connector is vacuum switch, could still be a vacuum issue? As far as the gas tank goes and code 44, have you tried Raydar's suggestion of loosening the gas cap and going for drive that would normally cause code 44?
I had a code 32 problem with my original Fiero back around 86. That problem turned out to be a blown solenoid driver transistor on the ECM mother board. The switch you are jumpering at the ERG connector is vacuum switch, could still be a vacuum issue? As far as the gas tank goes and code 44, have you tried Raydar's suggestion of loosening the gas cap and going for drive that would normally cause code 44?
I was thinking the Code 32 might be related to the gas tank because they are both part of the vacuum system. Maybe my charcoal canister is clogged or saturated with gas. Haven't looked into that yet. I actually started driving with the gas cap loose before Raydar suggested it. I'm still doing that. I feel like the gas tank vacuum and the Code 44 are separate. I noticed an improvement in frequency of the Code 44 when I tightened the exhaust manifold bolts. They are difficult to reach so they might still be a little looser than recommended. I feel like the Code 44 is all in the exhaust and that is why I bought the VW gaskets. I'll change them in December when this semester is over. Code 44 only comes on for 20 seconds or so and not very often. It is much better than it was.
The Code 32 is permanent when it comes on. When it sets, it stays on until I turn the car off. It does not come on when the harness is jumpered so I must believe that my ECM is OK. I did realize that there were a few things that I didn't check out when I had the intake all apart the other day. I didn't try to blow through the line that runs from the air filter housing to the EGR solenoid. I also didn't try to blow through the plastic line AFTER I re-attached it to the throttle body. The throttle body port could be clogged or maybe that firewall line is. Maybe I cracked the EGR tube when I was swapping the engines. I have a braided EGR tube I can swap on.
I guess I need to check all of those things mentioned and also test the solenoid for continuity when vacuum is applied. It does appear that I can eliminate the ECM coolant sensor as a possible cause of the Code 32. Gotta take the small victories where I can I guess.
I decided to try to figure out if the vacuum ports on the bottom of the throttle body were clogged or clear. I popped the hoses off the nipples and attached spare vacuum lines to those nipples. Then I blew through the ends of the lines and they were "clear". I mean I was able to blow through the lines but it didn't feel like it was free flowing. I decided that I should remove the IAC and the air filter snorkle and clean the throttle body as well as possible. There was some gunk in there but I've seen worse. Anyway, got that cleaned up.
I tried blowing through the throttle body ports again and I noticed that they "opened up" more when the throttle was pressed open a bit. I don't really know how that plumbing works. Satisfied it was cleaner, I went for a test drive. No major change. The car drove well, perhaps slightly better but the Codes were still there.
Then I got into my Haynes manual and it suggested another possibility. It mentioned the throttle body mounting bolts (torx bolts) and if they were loose, a vacuum leak could be present there. The torque value listed in the manual was a max of 180 inch-pounds. It seemed to be talking about the 4-cylinder throttle body since that was what the illustrations showed. I looked through the other chapters and didn't find another value specific to the V6 to use. I wanted to test that torque value before applying it to my car. I checked the torque on a spare throttle body/plenum in my garage. One of those bolts was loose and the torque value seemed safe. I went out and torqued the two bolts on the car's throttle body. BOTH of them were loose. After a test drive, no Code 32 to report so far!
It is so wierd that these two bolts could cause so much trouble. I never even loosened them when I did the engine swap. I never had a Code 32 before the swap so I had to believe it was something I had removed or adjusted. I guess not. Maybe the bolts had been working loose and then when I lifted the plenum, the throttle body was allowed to flex away from the plenum, breaking the seal of its gasket.
If the Code 32 comes back, I'll post all my attempts at solving it until it is beaten into submission! Right now, I feel like such a huge weight has been lifted off of me! I can start liking my car again.
After two days without the Code 32, today it was back in full force. Once it came on, it was on to stay until I turned the ignition off. So far, the only thing that has seemed to help was the throttle body work. I guess the next thing I'll try is swapping throttle bodies. This sucks.
There is one thing that may be common through all your attempts to fix the problems. Each time you go under there and try to fix a problem you probably are disturbing / moving something around; like the wiring harness or vacuum lines etc. Could still be an intermittent electrical connection or a cracked vacuum line. For instance, there are several ECM grounds that attach to the engine, take a look at them. Intermittents can be difficult and frustrating to find.
There is one thing that may be common through all your attempts to fix the problems. Each time you go under there and try to fix a problem you probably are disturbing / moving something around; like the wiring harness or vacuum lines etc. Could still be an intermittent electrical connection or a cracked vacuum line. For instance, there are several ECM grounds that attach to the engine, take a look at them. Intermittents can be difficult and frustrating to find.
BR's,
Mark
That makes perfect sense and I'd be inclined to believe you except for how thoroughly I checked the vacuum lines and the fact that jumpering the wiring harness keeps the code from setting. There was a common problem though, I was hitting all around the real cause and never finding it!
Torquing the throttle body torx bolts solved the Code 32...for two days. That was long enough to fool me. That made me think that the problem was somewhere in or around the throttle body and I had just nudged it. I decided to change throttle bodies. I cleaned up my spare and swapped them. There is a fat vacuum hose that runs from the bottom of the throttle body to the lower intake manifold. That tube is held in the throttle body hole by the friction of an o-ring. It is very difficult if not impossible to get a good connection here if you take the plenum/throttle body off the middle intake and try to put it all back together as a solid unit. Because that is what I did during the engine swap, I suspected that I had a weak vacuum connection here. I recommend separating the throttle body from the plenum any time the plenum has to be removed.
When putting it back together, connect the fat throttle body vacuum hose to the lower intake. Put the plenum on and bolt it down. Attach the fat vacuum tube to the throttle body. Attach the cruise control cable. Slide the gasket into place and replace the torx bolts but leave them loose. Re-attach the coolant lines to the throttle body by finger tightening them. Torque the torx bolts. Tighten the coolant line fittings with a wrench. Attach the throttle and transmission cables. Attach the two small vacuum lines under the throttle body.
Changing the throttle body fixed the Code 32 again...for a few hours. Then it was back again the next time I drove it. That's when I decided to do the vacuum and resistanace tests on my solenoids. One tested good. One tested bad. The good one had a questionable hose in place of the short spongy line. I removed that, attached two tiny diameter rubber vacuum hose elbows that were tighter than the hose and I used a short piece of plastic vacuum line between them. After a 30 mile test drive, it finally appears that the Code 32 has been defeated...we'll see.
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 11-22-2013).]
Back to the drawing board. Code 32 is back but at least it is only intermittent. Sometimes it comes on, sometimes it doesn't. As before, when it does come on, it stays on until the engine is shut off. I feel like the work I've done has helped. Everything I've done has either upgraded the system or confirmed that those components are functional. Each part has helped the system a little but I'm still missing the big contributor.
I just filled up the gas tank after running a full tank out. This was the first full tank since putting the original 86 gas tank back in. The vacuum lock condition is now gone and hopefully will stay gone. During this tank of gas, I did not hear the tank pop while driving and there was no rush of air when I took the gas cap off. What I did confirm is that I'm getting terrible gas mileage. About 17 mpg during mixed driving including interstate miles. I use the cruise control on the interstate so even though these cars don't like doing over 55, the mileage shouldn't have suffered too much.
Keep in mind that this car has new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, O2 sensor, Air Charge Temp sensor, rebuilt distributor, and cleaned injectors. The gauge reads consistently and the test bulb works correctly. Code 32 does not set when the harness is jumped so those two facts indicate that the two coolant sensors are good.
What to do... Maybe the car isn't getting into closed loop. According to the temperature gauge, the coolant is at 170*F when fully warmed up.
That is assuming that the gauge is accurate and the tic marks represent equal values between 100 and 220. I'm using the thermostat from the 86 engine. It is the most consistent of those I have on hand and have tried. It does a fantastic job of keeping the temperature rock steady. I wish I knew what brand it was. The problem is that it may be the wrong rating. Maybe it is a 160* or something else that is lower than the recommended 195*F stat. Since I don't know what brand this one is, I took The Ogre's advice and bought a Stant Superstat 195*F #45819 from Rock Auto. I'll put it in when it arrives. I also ordered an AC Delco ECM coolant temp sensor.
Another thing I can do is swap EGR solenoids AGAIN. I thought I should have a third EGR somewhere and I found it yesterday. I'll test it and put it on today and see if that helps. Maybe I didn't test the current one well enough or maybe it JUST NOW went bad after that first day of working. Who knows?
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 12-01-2013).]
I removed the EGR solenoid from my other parts car today. I was kind of amazed at how firmly the hoses were attached to it. Is there some kind of adhesive that I'm supposed to use? Maybe that's the problem.
The original vac lines and elbows were all air-tight...and over the years they got tired. I got a code 32 from the loose fit of the vac line on the EGR valve.
I put EGR solenoid number III on and went for a test drive. The SES light came on a few times but quickly went off each time. That is the way my Code 44 has been behaving so that's nothing new. I topped off the gas tank and cleared all the codes. I'm going to run this tank of gas out before I make my mind up about the success of this part swap. I don't think I'll jinx myself again by saying that the Code 32 is fixed. Maybe it is TEMPORARILY fixed. Hopefully that unspecified time frame will be best measured in years.
I did push VERY hard on the double vacuum line that attaches to the solenoid to try to seat the lines as completely as possible. Hopefully that or the new part is the answer. I am also interested in how this may or may not affect my gas mileage. My last two tanks have been in the 16-17 mpg range. Obviously a problem. I'll post the results of my next fill-up and the following one that will include the thermostat swap.
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 12-01-2013).]
I ran through half a tank of gas. So far, the Code 32 has not come back. Also my MPG has gone up 3 MPG. Keep in mind that this gain in mileage is on an engine that has some other problems. It still has the Code 44 Lean Fuel Condition. I believe this is being caused by the exhaust leak which is being detected by the O2 Sensor. When the O2 Sensor sees a lean condition, it tells the ECM to dump more fuel. Because this is currently going on inside my engine, there is no way to tell how much a working EGR system would help the MPG in an otherwise properly working engine. It does seem to make some difference, though.
I ran through half a tank of gas. So far, the Code 32 has not come back. Also my MPG has gone up 3 MPG. Keep in mind that this gain in mileage is on an engine that has some other problems. It still has the Code 44 Lean Fuel Condition. I believe this is being caused by the exhaust leak which is being detected by the O2 Sensor. When the O2 Sensor sees a lean condition, it tells the ECM to dump more fuel. Because this is currently going on inside my engine, there is no way to tell how much a working EGR system would help the MPG in an otherwise properly working engine. It does seem to make some difference, though.
Jonathan
I filled up again. I GOT 26.8 MPG!! That's the best I can ever remember getting in a Fiero! So far, the Code 32 is staying away. When I pull my engine again in a couple of weeks, I'll have to replace the exhaust gaskets, the rear main seal, and re-connect the O2.
Car is running great. No heistation, good power everywhere. Great MPG.
I started worrying that the great MPG might be an indicator that I was running too lean. The coolant gauge is staying where it always did, I have normal oil pressure. I checked the exhaust manifolds tonight in the dark while still running in Park after a drive to the store. They were not glowing at all. Everything seems to be working correctly and very well.
Unfortunately, I still have to pull the whole engine/trans/cradle out again on the 15th. I have a rear main seal to replace and exhaust manifold gaskets to replace. When I get it all back together this time, it should be code free and running excellent! That will be nice.
If all goes well, I'll be driving this car for some time to come. I was toying with the idea of selling it and getting an Infiniti G35 since I was getting frustrated with all the codes and stuff. I hope all that is behind me or at least SOON to be behind me. I gotta have reliable transportation. Hoping to start a welding apprenticeship in May and they have zero patience for being late or missing work for transportation problems. All of these engine problems have also put my 2nd Amendment T-shirt business on hold. I have lost a few months of marketing and sales but now it should be safe to make my first run of shirts in January!
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 12-03-2013).]
I pulled the engine out again, did my work, and put it back together. I've driven it a few times since. I have Code 13 and 44. I tried a MAP sensor swap with no improvement. I'll try an O2 sensor swap next.
I put the VW gaskets on and I torqued the nuts. I hope they are well sealed. I changed the rear main seal. It is MUCH better but might not be perfect. I found a little hint of oil on the oil pan. I wiped it off and I'll keep my eye on that spot.
I used a household wire nut to re-connect the VSS wire that was broken. It is not 100% either. The speedometer jumps around sometimes now. That was a lot of work for mediocre results!
not to get you to throw more money at the car---but with all the egr issues--have you checked your egr tube? usually the indication is a higher rpm at idle, but you have O2 issues, EGR issues---mine went bad the only way I knew was by spraying TBI cleaner on it while the engine was running--while replacing also found pcv tube was disconnected--all new gaskets on the new egr tube AND egr mount (there are 2 of them), reconnected the pcv and all my error codes went away and the car runs great---no error codes since---
My EGR solenoid was dying. It tested good the first time and later tested bad. Once I replaced it with a serviceable unit, all my EGR codes were solved. I have a very stable idle around 800 RPMs.
Since I now have two codes that are O2 related, I'm hoping that swapping that sensor is the cure. I'll try my next O2 sensor tomorrow.
Pretty much every problem I've had with a Fiero engine was EGR,TPS, or o2 sensor. The other which I reopalced on every Fiero I've had, was the fuel pump.
Hope you finally got it taken care of. I'd recommend a loooong drive. They seem to like that.
The EGR solenoid Code 32 has come back to visit a few times. It has not been consistant in any way. It always happened during a long drive but the next time I would start it up, the light would be out.
I decided that it might be caused by a slight vacuum leak in the unit. Maybe temperatures or humidity or vibration would trigger the code. I got a brilliant idea to fix any slight leaks, I PLASTI-DIPPED the solenoid! I used the spray-on kind instead of the actual dip. Got a nice thick coat all over the little jumper hoses and into all the cracks, nooks, and crannies.
I have driven about 400 miles since then and so far, the code has not come back. It is a cheap fix that is worth a try!
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Hopefully that unspecified time frame will be best measured in years.
