sorry, I was looking more for numbers than anything else.
my 86 GT with modified engine and a wider geared 125c hits 60 at 10.5 seconds. I know for a fact it would be faster if I would have kept the 3.33 ratio over the 2.84 I have now.
[This message has been edited by AL87 (edited 12-28-2013).]
Dont understand how the GT would be slower than the formula considering all mechanical parts are the same except exterior of the car? Weight plays an issue maybe?
What the hell did you do? You made a slow car even more slow.
Still "pulling off that 7.5k daily with stock hardware too"?
1st off, I lolled at your reaction.
2nd off I have the 2.84 geared 125C. (as previously stated above)
when I had the 3.33 ratio, I was squealing tires upto a 235 60r 15 size on demand. I was eating tires... I mean. they were all used and free to me, but I was taking them all down to bald until the torque convertor snout bearing (pilot bearing?) burned out one day.
the 2.84 was the trans I rebuilt and put a shift kit in. it really needs more power to drive it.
if I use the brakes, I can get the rpm upto 3k for a launch, but what use is that to me if I don't have the hp to take advantage of the wider ratio? right now it gets me from a-to-b and saves me some gas. and yes. I'm still pulling off that 7.5k. just changed the oil and the magnet and oil was clean, so I guess I'll keep on keeping on lol.
Dont understand how the GT would be slower than the formula considering all mechanical parts are the same except exterior of the car? Weight plays an issue maybe?
The fastbacks re heavier, plus GTs have interior options that a Formula would get by without. The Formula was the highest performance Fiero because it had all the performance bits of the GT with the base coupe weight.
My 85 GT auto listed its 0-60 time as "eventually"
what are the 0-60 times for all the different stock fieros?
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:
Well, I have one with the 4.10 gears and I bet a lot of other people do too. There are lots of 84's with the 2.8 in them now. Larry
If your 84 has a V6 it's no longer stock. It may be a stock V6 from another year but since the 84 was not available stock with a V6 then adding a V6 to it no matter what it came out of makes it no longer stock. Stock is how the car came off the assembly line.
If you can get your automatic down to 15.474 (my best quarter mile 2.8 speed) my hat is off to you. I haven't yet seen an auto that quick
Arn
PS the reaction time was 1.183 (old guy time) and 2.21 @ 60'
We'll have to see... I'll post a time when I get to it... I may however put a spare 3.33 ratio in because this car really lags, and I should be doing around a 7-8 second 0-60...
Wings.....You need wings and lotsa them! One wing is hardly noticable....Two wings will knock a second off the quarter- but three wings in any form on the trunk lid will make it a 9 second car, easy! The stickers are only going to improve it by approx 1/2 second- I wouldn't recommend both wings and stickers unless you have driven in F1..............................Recently! You have to know your limitations.......
You know......It's too bad we don't have some tiny little 4 cyl so we could put giant fart-can tail pipes on 'em and make 'em sound constipated....If you put it all together(Wings, stickers AND farts) we could probably break the 1000 mph barrier at Bonnie before Andy Green does it........
You mean those soup cans really DO make a difference in speed? I always thought they were just guys over-compensating for something they lacked in another area. I stand corrected!
what are the 0-60 times for all the different stock fieros? I've been wondering what the quickest fieros are and what options they have or don't have.
I've owned quite a few Fieros, and I'd probably have to say that the quickest Fieros would more than likely have to be a 1985 Fiero GT 4-Speed, or an 88 Fiero Formula 5-Speed.
I'd still guess that the 85 GT would be quicker because the 4-Speed requires one less shift to 60 than the 5-Speed.
I also picked the 85 GT and the 88 Fiero Formula because they both came with the WS6 suspension and would be a bit better planted on hard acceleration.
Although options don't really add that much to the car, I'd have to say that assuming all other conditions being the same, a low-optioned 85 GT would probably be the best.
I had a 1985 Fiero GT 4-Speed over a decade ago, and it was REALLY quick. The ONLY options it had was the absolute bare-bones options for the GT model (fancy interior), A/C, and WS6. It didn't have any power options. It had tilt-steering, variable wipers, and trunk release. Nothing else.
Incidentally, the 85 GT that I owned had a 4.10:1 swapped into it from a Pontiac Grand Am 2.5. It had also overheated at some point before I owned it, and the previous owner had the heads decked, so the compression was slightly higher too. The acceleration with those 4.10s was pretty neck snapping. I mean, I realize it's not an Olds 455 big block in there, but if I really got on it, I could get it to chirp the tires in 3rd as I rode through the gears... that was with BF Goodrich T/A Comps. One time I dropped the clutch in first, and it rocked the engine so hard it ripped the drive-line absorber off the frame and the car NEVER got traction, just sat in place frying it's tires until I started to let up... at which point it scorched the tires all the way down the street until I hit the rev-limiter and shifted into second.
By comparison... it DESTROYED my 1987 Fiero SE / V6 in quarter mile acceleration. The 87 SE had a lot of little add-ons at the time, free-er flowing exhaust, hogged exhaust manifolds, better flowing catalytic converter, synthetic oil, K&N air filter, and a 3.33:1 GX3 3-Speed automatic transmission. By the time my 87 SE was on the other side of the intersection, the 85 GT would be like 4-5 car lengths ahead.
I'd definitely have to say that 85 GT was pulling a low 15 second quarter mile... maybe even a high 14 on a good day. I really have no idea. What I do know is that my 87 SE (before I blew my motor), ran a best of 15.6 with a G-TECH... and that 85 GT was way quicker.
Of course, like I said, it had decked heads and a 4.10 (and no cat, and a rotted out muffler).
EDIT: Here's a couple of pictures of my old 1985 Fiero GT... hehehe. I sold it to a guy on here who was friends with Dave Rodabaugh (if you guys remember him). I originally bought it from someone in Ohio with 153k miles on it, I then sold it with 168k miles (or something like that). In the first picture, you can see my 1987 Fiero off to the left.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 12-29-2013).]
I have an '85 SE V6.....The only options were the V6, the second level stereo, WS6 and trunk lights(Useless).....It weighed 2580 with 1/2 tank.....And it was quicker than any Fiero GT I ever ran. I'm now Resto-moding it, with the 3.4/5spd, GT rear quarter, 87-88 base nose, and 88 suspension....Plus some crazy stuff that only a nut like me could think up......It now weighs 2640. That includes gas and a tool box + spare ignition crap up front.[img]100_0617[/img]
Wings.....You need wings and lotsa them! One wing is hardly noticable....Two wings will knock a second off the quarter- but three wings in any form on the trunk lid will make it a 9 second car, easy! The stickers are only going to improve it by approx 1/2 second- I wouldn't recommend both wings and stickers unless you have driven in F1..............................Recently! You have to know your limitations.......
You know......It's too bad we don't have some tiny little 4 cyl so we could put giant fart-can tail pipes on 'em and make 'em sound constipated....If you put it all together(Wings, stickers AND farts) we could probably break the 1000 mph barrier at Bonnie before Andy Green does it........
Thanks a lot... He will take this as serious advice and start 30 threads about which Grapefruit Launcher tailpipe provides the best performance, and how installing a Hypertech Super Duper chip made the car capable of beating a new Camaro SS.
The stock car is a dog. Let's face it. It's OK- nothing wrong with that, but come on... almost every modern minivan or pickup truck will beat a stock Fiero, so why redline it and blow the engine??
Maybe a Holley side scoop will make all the difference..LOL
well guys thanks for the advice, but I think I've learned from the wings, stickers and a super duper chip on my holley duke that all of the above will end up blowing the engine. and only after 6k a few times on the tach and 50mph cruising speed. in 7 days flat. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd
BUT I see where I messed up my car by putting a wide ratio transmission in and taller tires. the bright side is that I will save money on tires now since they don't break traction ever.
sorry to say? but I like a fiero better than most cars. so I'm gonna stick with it. its a fiero thing. some of you will understand. ^_^
im probably going to try to find a stock v6 fiero with a 4spd in it and just do a simple s/c 3800 swap instead of wasting my money on pipe dreams.
I found an archived article about a turbo 2.8 fiero getting 375hp and 400 ft/lbs of torque on 20psi while doing a random search. so I may just do one of those, even after being talked out of it before.
well guys thanks for the advice, but I think I've learned from the wings, stickers and a super duper chip on my holley duke that all of the above will end up blowing the engine. and only after 6k a few times on the tach and 50mph cruising speed. in 7 days flat. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd
BUT I see where I messed up my car by putting a wide ratio transmission in and taller tires. the bright side is that I will save money on tires now since they don't break traction ever.
sorry to say? but I like a fiero better than most cars. so I'm gonna stick with it. its a fiero thing. some of you will understand. ^_^
im probably going to try to find a stock v6 fiero with a 4spd in it and just do a simple s/c 3800 swap instead of wasting my money on pipe dreams.
I found an archived article about a turbo 2.8 fiero getting 375hp and 400 ft/lbs of torque on 20psi while doing a random search. so I may just do one of those, even after being talked out of it before.
Borettis 2.8 (2,8) turbo is a lot of custom internals which is a lot of $$$ The only thing I remember for sure offhand was that the crank was a one off made just for him.
Borettis 2.8 (2,8) turbo is a lot of custom internals which is a lot of $$$ The only thing I remember for sure offhand was that the crank was a one off made just for him.
you found it too!? yeah I was reading that! I have an eagle crank, and a source for stock size forged pistons for 150 new! I just need forged connecting rods!!!
im probably going to try to find a stock v6 fiero with a 4spd in it and just do a simple s/c 3800 swap instead of wasting my money on pipe dreams.
You say this and i think your finally starting to wise up....
....but then you said this.
quote
Originally posted by AL87:I found an archived article about a turbo 2.8 fiero getting 375hp and 400 ft/lbs of torque on 20psi while doing a random search. so I may just do one of those, even after being talked out of it before.
[This message has been edited by 85sliverGT (edited 12-31-2013).]
I cant help it. There are just so many different ideas in my head, if I had the money, I'd have a fiero for every different idea I have. XD I want to do them all and become a Fiero master!
Even though what I've got eats all the rice in town, it has become what it has eaten...
I want something that is going to put a smile on my face, after it snaps my neck.
3.4 is the easiest, but its not gonna do what I want, but is a good replacement for a duke or 2.8, so I'm not knocking it.
s/c 3800 is going to be fun, but upgrades are limited before I have to start dumping money to make the serious power. a mild cam upgrade with a slightly smaller pulley, and some port and polishing is about it. and if I want to get a hot cam and more boost, I'll have to get an intercooler first. And if I want to turbo one, I have to be all in on everything.
sbc v8. I've driven a zz4 crate with less than 4k on it and it had a 200 shot of nitrous, but it looks like a pain in the butf to cut some of the chassis, and reinforce, and service. there's almost no room. and the exhaust is going to be hell to figure out...
from what I've read, a 4spd from a v6 fiero will do me fine. coupled to a stock or slightly modified s/c 3800
350hp is my goal. that is what the zz4 made so I guess I can go from there.
350hp is my goal. that is what the zz4 made so I guess I can go from there.
For the amount of work required, I would really pick something better than a ZZ4. The ZZ4 crate motor really is "old tech"...
I'm certainly not downing a small block Chevy, they've been around for ever... but since you're already going through all that work... I would want something like an LT1 or an LS1.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: For the amount of work required, I would really pick something better than a ZZ4. The ZZ4 crate motor really is "old tech"...
I'm certainly not downing a small block Chevy, they've been around for ever... but since you're already going through all that work... I would want something like an LT1 or an LS1.
Perhaps an LS4...a bit smaller and made for transverse installation...however, it is just a bit over 300hp, so that may not be good enough. Not sure how easy it is to bump up the power on it without spending too much.
I cant help it. There are just so many different ideas in my head, if I had the money, I'd have a fiero for every different idea I have. XD I want to do them all and become a Fiero master!
Even though what I've got eats all the rice in town, it has become what it has eaten...
I want something that is going to put a smile on my face, after it snaps my neck.
3.4 is the easiest, but its not gonna do what I want, but is a good replacement for a duke or 2.8, so I'm not knocking it.
s/c 3800 is going to be fun, but upgrades are limited before I have to start dumping money to make the serious power. a mild cam upgrade with a slightly smaller pulley, and some port and polishing is about it. and if I want to get a hot cam and more boost, I'll have to get an intercooler first. And if I want to turbo one, I have to be all in on everything.
sbc v8. I've driven a zz4 crate with less than 4k on it and it had a 200 shot of nitrous, but it looks like a pain in the butf to cut some of the chassis, and reinforce, and service. there's almost no room. and the exhaust is going to be hell to figure out...
from what I've read, a 4spd from a v6 fiero will do me fine. coupled to a stock or slightly modified s/c 3800
350hp is my goal. that is what the zz4 made so I guess I can go from there.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: For the amount of work required, I would really pick something better than a ZZ4. The ZZ4 crate motor really is "old tech"...
I'm certainly not downing a small block Chevy, they've been around for ever... but since you're already going through all that work... I would want something like an LT1 or an LS1.
research has yielded that the old style zz4 makes more crank hp at 355 vs 300ish between the lt1 variants.
and an ls1 is the next gen replacement for the lt1 and since the lt1 was the replacement for the old gen 1 sbc, they are all essentially the same v8 (to me at least) the newer the generation you go, the more tech is introduced to the engine control systems.
I was raised on a carbed v8 at the circle track and on boats when I worked as a marine mechanic.
maybe an lt4 OR the rare lt5 is in order, yes? (no... not just no, but HELL NO) XD
an ls4 to me is just a computer controlled 327 sbc. I'm thinking if it were to be a sbc, it would have to be a 383. that is 6.2 liters. and if I could find a chevy 400 (~6.5L) based on the same block, then all the better. there's no replacement, for displacement***
but like what was said earlier, the v8 is hard to fit in a fiero. the struggle is real. maybe I should just start asking how much it will cost me to run an 11-12 at the strip. for each style of engine
Originally posted by AL87: sbc v8. I've driven a zz4 crate with less than 4k on it and it had a 200 shot of nitrous, but it looks like a pain in the butf to cut some of the chassis, and reinforce, and service. there's almost no room. and the exhaust is going to be hell to figure out...
350hp is my goal. that is what the zz4 made so I guess I can go from there.
Do some more research... you can install a SBC in a fiero w/o cutting the decklid hinge box or any sheet metal on the passenger side (with the exception of removing the battery tray). Just because many people chose to install it via cutting, doesn't mean it is a requirement. The exhaust isn't difficult either...
quote
Originally posted by Neils88: Perhaps an LS4...a bit smaller and made for transverse installation...however, it is just a bit over 300hp, so that may not be good enough. Not sure how easy it is to bump up the power on it without spending too much.
A basic intake, camshaft and exhaust upgrade will significantly improve the power level of the LS4. The engine was severely choked on the intake side by GM to help with the 4T65e-hd longevity, and the rear exhaust manifold is a restriction as well. Mine is up to about 430 fwhp now.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-01-2014).]
Originally posted by AL87: research has yielded that the old style zz4 makes more crank hp at 355 vs 300ish between the lt1 variants.
Vette LT1's were 350 hp as well, and those are rated with the factory manifolds and all accessories. The crate motors are rated with open headers and minimal accessories. So if you install a Vette LT1 and a ZZ4 in a fiero using the same exhaust, it's likely the LT1 will produce more rear wheel HP.
quote
Originally posted by AL87: and an ls1 is the next gen replacement for the lt1 and since the lt1 was the replacement for the old gen 1 sbc, they are all essentially the same v8 (to me at least) the newer the generation you go, the more tech is introduced to the engine control systems.
The LT1 was a step in the right direction as it was the first electronic fuel injected GM V8 to be built that focused on HP above 5000 rpm and not low end torque. As such you didn't have to replace a bunch of intake components to make power with larger camshafts and headers. With the LT1 they finally stopped making the intakes restrictive above 4500-5000 rpm (with the exception of the LS4's). They had some marginally better flowing heads as well, but were not a step change in performance.
The LS1 kept the trend of a non-restrictive intake (the LS2 and LS6 intakes are better), but also added some very good heads, and coil per plug. In stock form they flow better than many aftermarket SBC heads, have a better combustion chamber design for improved combustion and fuel economy, and the stock ignition system will support an insane amount of power w/o needing to be upgraded. The ignition control is much more precise (no longer goes through the timing chain and gear transition) and the ecm control in the LS family is very fast and quite good which improves idle quality and drivability with larger camshafts... all this means is you can build a higher powered vehicle and it will have better street manners than a compatibly built SBC while delivering more hp and better fuel economy.
All the advances with the LS(x) family mean that with a camshaft swap and headers and a tune, you can see 450-500 fwhp w/o changing anything else.
quote
Originally posted by AL87: an ls4 to me is just a computer controlled 327 sbc. I'm thinking if it were to be a sbc, it would have to be a 383. that is 6.2 liters. and if I could find a chevy 400 (~6.5L) based on the same block, then all the better. there's no replacement, for displacement***
The LS4 has the best flowing cathedral port heads stock, 10:1 compression stock, a lower end that will allow a 7K redline stock, and can be purchased with low miles for $1000. Swap the intake, camshaft with matching pushrods and springs, and add headers and you can see 400+ fwhp. I am at about 430 fwhp right now with a HP peak at 6800 rpm. Now if I wanted 500-550 streetable fwhp, I would need to increase the displacement or add a power adder.
I'll have to admit, that computer technology has improved the efficiency of engines; and the streetability as well.
I did some general research, and was looking at the basic numbers of the engines in comparison. I did read an interesting article about bolt ons for the new LS motors: http://www.gmhightechperfor...bolt_on_parts_guide/
Also, if I know anything, its that the cam makes or breaks an engine.
AND lastly. I didn't know that you don't have to cut into the rear frame for a sbc motor, that zz4 had some weird extended pulley system where the crank turned the water pump and both the crank and water pump pulleys jutted out into the right rear tire well and the water pump pulley required part of the frame to be removed.
someone I know told me that an electrically driven water pump could be used, but then my question is "how do you get the water pump to spin faster and slower relative to the engine rpm?
research has yielded that the old style zz4 makes more crank hp at 355 vs 300ish between the lt1 variants.
and an ls1 is the next gen replacement for the lt1 and since the lt1 was the replacement for the old gen 1 sbc, they are all essentially the same v8 (to me at least) the newer the generation you go, the more tech is introduced to the engine control systems.
I was raised on a carbed v8 at the circle track and on boats when I worked as a marine mechanic.
maybe an lt4 OR the rare lt5 is in order, yes? (no... not just no, but HELL NO) XD
an ls4 to me is just a computer controlled 327 sbc. I'm thinking if it were to be a sbc, it would have to be a 383. that is 6.2 liters. and if I could find a chevy 400 (~6.5L) based on the same block, then all the better. there's no replacement, for displacement***
but like what was said earlier, the v8 is hard to fit in a fiero. the struggle is real. maybe I should just start asking how much it will cost me to run an 11-12 at the strip. for each style of engine
I understand that the ZZ4 is more simple and less complicated, but I think I'm not properly saying what I'm trying to say.
You drive a sports car, not an 80s Camaro. In my opinion, it just seems a bit like an odd match. I just personally think that embracing the newer technology would really improve the quality and feel of not only the ride but the performance of the vehicle. Much in the same way that a 3500 roller block would just "feel" better than an equally matched GEN-1 3.4 block. I'm not saying the LT1 is the answer... but if you're going to go through the work and spend the money, I would personally try to go as new as you're comfortable with. For what it's worth, you can easily run a carburetor on an LT1... you can even carburate an LS1.
I'm only speaking from experience when I say that I've planned and worked-towards many engine swaps... only to change my mind half-way through because I realized I could have done something a little bit different and ended up with a better result.
That's why I've got this (engine) sitting around with nothing to put it in.
I'm only speaking from experience when I say that I've planned and worked-towards many engine swaps... only to change my mind half-way through because I realized I could have done something a little bit different and ended up with a better result.
That's why I've got this (engine) sitting around with nothing to put it in.
I got exactly what you were saying, I want to do an engine swap, its an investment, and i don't want to waste my time and money, or even feel like I did. I want to go through a swap of my own and be happy with it in the end.
and I must say sir, that engine you have just sitting there is the envy of many of us who are old school. <3
[This message has been edited by AL87 (edited 01-01-2014).]
