Originally posted by AL87: I didn't know that you don't have to cut into the rear frame for a sbc motor, that zz4 had some weird extended pulley system where the crank turned the water pump and both the crank and water pump pulleys jutted out into the right rear tire well and the water pump pulley required part of the frame to be removed.
someone I know told me that an electrically driven water pump could be used, but then my question is "how do you get the water pump to spin faster and slower relative to the engine rpm?
My personal preference is to use offset housings to shift the mounting position of the pump and to machine the backside of the stock SBC pump so the pulley is on the backside. Then it is belt driven and clears everything w/o cutting. Here was the first one:
Here you can see where it sat in the car. It was shifted forward and sits above the frame rail:
I have done a few SBC's with remote mounted electric pumps as well. They are a constant flow (about 50-60 gpm) and cool the engine at idle or WOT... I just don't like them on my personal cars as when (not if) the pump goes out, they are mail order only. My mechanical pump setup used an off the shelf pump insert from a 3400 engine, so if it went out, any local parts store would have it in stock.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-01-2014).]
Originally posted by AL87: I got exactly what you were saying, I want to do an engine swap, its an investment, and i don't want to waste my time and money, or even feel like I did. I want to go through a swap of my own and be happy with it in the end.
Swaps typically are not investments, they are entertainment expenses at best.
As such, when I do swaps, I need to be happy with the power level, the swap needs to look good, it needs to have good street manners, and it needs to get decent fuel economy. I build my cars to drive and enjoy and I like to drive them to work daily (19 miles each way). I put 40k miles on the SBC/Getrag swap, 15k+ miles on my 4.3 CPI/4T60 swap and in the 9 months my LS4/F40 swap has been running, I have put about 9k miles on it.
If it fun to drive (power and street manners) and gets about the same or better fuel economy of your other cars, then you will drive it a lot.
If I was looking to do a non-V8 swap, it would likely be a 3900/F40 or a 3500/F40.
1000% agree that swaps (or any other money spent on a Fiero) is a hobby, not an investment. These cars do not hold value, nor are they likely to go up, so money spent on them is likely gone for good. Speaking of money... you need to ask yourself if you actually have any- or is this a pipe dream? Every few weeks people start a thread about "what if I do this or that engine to my car to give me 2000 HP to "beat" some car at the lights.. and it rarely materializes. People spend time and effort to provide advice, but isn't this pointless unless you actually have the time and money to get a swap done already? Daydreaming is free, but not very productive... I think that unless you have $6000 at least in play money sitting around that you are ready to spend on a Fiero, then there is not much point in spending hours analyzing which LS** motor will give you 400 HP, since it won't happen. It is just as futile as red lining and destroying 26 year old commuter car engines while pretending that the car is fast...and then try to analyze why the engine blew up??!!.
Just my 2 cents.... from a grumpy old guy who used to be a young day dreamer once.
[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 01-02-2014).]
I got exactly what you were saying, I want to do an engine swap, its an investment, and i don't want to waste my time and money, or even feel like I did. I want to go through a swap of my own and be happy with it in the end.
and I must say sir, that engine you have just sitting there is the envy of many of us who are old school. <3
Yeah... I'm "at" the point in my car where I need to make a big decision about whether or not to keep my motor and be happy with it (the 3.2 in the Fiero) or go with a 3500 roller block, and I still just can't decide. I'm not an indecisive person. I can order anything from any restaurant menu in less than 10 seconds and be happy with it. But the motor swaps are expensive, and you do want to take your time.
Yeah, I love that motor... but I can't get what I spent on it. I conservatively say that I blew $7,000 on it (the Olds 455) and while it's got my finishing touches on it, it's really not that much more spectacular than the other $7,000 crate motors on eBay that come with a warranty from a reliable engine builder. But anyway, that's why I still have it.
Just my 2 cents.... from a grumpy old guy who used to be a young day dreamer once.
I have enough to buy another Fiero, and a s/c 3800 with harness and computer I've got sbc engines galore sitting here in my face without a thing to go in
now tell me, what should I do? I'm mechanically inclined so a swap comes easy. and doing up a harness that doesn't read to be too much of a pain
Tidbit of info: Vortec heads use the same intake port/chamber design as the LT1. Vortecs are capable of 450hp without porting, and there are aftermarket port injection intakes available (or run TBI with a carbed intake). This will keep you from the OptiSpark that everyone knows and loves. Another option is DIS, then either would be a viable option. One thing the LT1 has going for it is the timing chain-driven water pump, alleviating the need for a pulley in that location... then you're only running the alternator and a/c (if you choose to run it).
If your looking to build your Fiero to take on Rice and you plan on using a SBC be prepared to be very disappointed after all that time and money spent......
Go with a DOHC 3.4 or a 3800 either n/a or s/c. Heck, even the iron head 3.4 out of Camaro is still in my opinion a better option than the V8 because you can put a turbo on it and make decent power without blowing the bank up.
Turbo is fun but to do it properly costs more than an NA engine or already turboed engine like a 3.8.
Personally I'd like to see someone stick an LNF 4 cylinder out of a Solstice in a Fiero. The one I've got in the Solstice at 350 bhp does a 1/4 in just under 13 flat and it weighs about 300 lbs. more than a Fiero GT!
FWIW my turbo 3.2 Fiero GT would do 0-60 in the mid 4 second range and low 13s in the 1/4.
If your looking to build your Fiero to take on Rice and you plan on using a SBC be prepared to be very disappointed after all that time and money spent......
Go with a DOHC 3.4 or a 3800 either n/a or s/c. Heck, even the iron head 3.4 out of Camaro is still in my opinion a better option than the V8 because you can put a turbo on it and make decent power without blowing the bank up.
But do as you want.
lol, rice? I eat rice already. XD if I were to do a swap it would be to compete with the muscle car's; I'd like to be in the 12-13 second bracket where most Camaros and mustangs find themselves.
Originally posted by AL87: lol, rice? I eat rice already. XD
I think rice eats you... Especially 0-60 in 10.6sec.
quote
Originally posted by AL87:
It was my race to lose and I decided to play around with this honda civic off the line, he couldnt keep up with me so I wasnt going full throttle (on and off part throttle) and then all of a sudden... His v-tec kicked in, and I was buttered toast. If I wouldnt have played around he wouldnt have won.
so when are you going to take the hundreds of pages of info people have provided to repetitive questions and actually put a real engine in your car? I hear the second coming of Christ may happen.... so you want to get this swap done soon. Remember.. there is nothing more important in life than being a little faster than some 21 year old kid in a Civic at a green light!
Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: I think rice eats you... Especially 0-60 in 10.6sec.
well. that's what happens with v-tech, took him forever to get going,(mind you im already ahead) and then when I drop back to lol at him he takes off at 8k or something.
I also had my 3.33 ratio trans in at that time, and 215 60 15s (you should try some 235 60 15s)
And I am well aware of the fig tree prophecy, maybe sometime in a year or so I'll decide to drop in a small block or a s/c 3800.
I'm looking for a 4spd fiero first, they are kinda hard to find here. every one I find is an auto or a 5spd.
[This message has been edited by AL87 (edited 01-04-2014).]
You know? I've been on here quite a while...posted a lot of comments...none of them have ever been bad natured. I don't have a ton of money, but have a pretty good mechanical aptitude. As everyone knows I have a SBC that I personally built for a little under 2 grand with the car but I did everything... Yea I know...old school and outdated but hey I like it. I'm not trying to be critical as I was young once too but it really sounds like you probably need to grow up a little before you either hurt somebody or injure yourself. I...as have others here have read your posts and honestly for the most part you have sounded like you were 16 and at this time really not ready to handle the responsibility of a fast car. I'm just going to leave it at that and wish you the best....I'm gonna go see if I can get my truck to rev 7000 and beat a Honda.
------------------ 87 GT....SBC...fast as hell... Proud new owner of....THE DIRTY RAT
You know? I've been on here quite a while...posted a lot of comments...none of them have ever been bad natured. I don't have a ton of money, but have a pretty good mechanical aptitude. As everyone knows I have a SBC that I personally built for a little under 2 grand with the car but I did everything... Yea I know...old school and outdated but hey I like it. I'm not trying to be critical as I was young once too but it really sounds like you probably need to grow up a little before you either hurt somebody or injure yourself. I...as have others here have read your posts and honestly for the most part you have sounded like you were 16 and at this time really not ready to handle the responsibility of a fast car. I'm just going to leave it at that and wish you the best....I'm gonna go see if I can get my truck to rev 7000 and beat a Honda.
Stuff happens. oh well. and every time I talk about it I get nailed to a cross. I've driven things much too fast for any road, so its not like I don't know what speed is. so what if I like to live a little, and show people how my crappy car is falling apart by posting it on here. and talking about all sorts of randomness. im driving a 28 year old car, and replacing parts as I need to when they break, I've been SO lucky a lot of the old parts didn't fall apart while I was driving, I drove the car knowing something could happen, its not like I race it around when it was like that either.
and a 4-bolt 350 is something I could be very happy with, that's what I grew up on. and a lot of others too, no harm no foul, but technology has vastly improved, and so have the street manners of today's engine. im at a crossroads on what path to take old school sbc? LS series? or S/C 3800. and I think 350hp is being conservative, with any of which I choose, I'll probably end up making more.
[This message has been edited by AL87 (edited 01-05-2014).]
lol, when I said too fast for any street, I was referring to things that wasn't streetable. why so serious all the time?
but okay. I guess I gotta fess up to the fast things I've gotten into. Open Wheel Modified Sportsman Late Model both were sbc based one had aluminum heads, the other was iron.
Scarab 33' with 2 502's Yellowfin 38' with 3 verado 350's
something that was street legal that I made a few passes at the strip in was a stock 03' vette
Because when you say "too fast for any street" that leaves a lot to the imagination.
There are plenty of people out there that street drive 8 and 9 second cars. A rather highly viewed video is doing the rounds online right now o a few street driven LeMans racers in Japan right now.
These cars are all perfectly streetable. Logical? No. Streetable? Absolutely.
So if you say "too fast for any street" I personally assume that you must be driving some 6 second 2-3,000HP monsters. But as you've just proven, that is not the case.
The cars you have driven are mildly quick. Nothing more.
Yep my totaly stock 85 GT with the 4 speed did 15.4 in the 1/4 mile back to back to back back in 2002 with about 80k miles on it.
@Shadow; Yeah... I have to apologize, I realized that as soon as I got called out on it. fast means different things to different people. I've just been used to the circle track, and the speedboats. I've never really been to the strip exept to try that vette and my fiero (when it was stock), on two different occasions 13.1 with the vette is something I would like to beat. if I could run low 12's (and maybe bust out a high 11 on a good day) then id be content.
I wonder how much faster a 3.4 would be... and on top of that, the mods porting everything, and a cam. A different intake plenum, and bigger throttle body. maybe some better headers.
would it be a good idea to re-enforce the front mounting points because of torque, anyone heard of or done that?
Personally I prefer larger V8 engines. Something that has torque down low as well as a bit of our RPM up top. The newer LS engines seem to have it all and when you get bored of it you can toss a Turbo on them and they respond really well. You can start with a 300 horsepower LS and end up with a 750 horsepower LS without ever pulling the head off. Stock block stock crank stock everything, well aside from the pushrods, valve springs and possibly a camshaft. I swear GM deliberately put soft springs in the early LS motors that float the valves at the 5500 rpm area just to save on warranty work. Once you get decent valve springs and better pushrods, shifting at 7000 rpms is now safe. In order to get the 750hp mark, you will need a Turbo or a lot of Nitrous though.
This thread is nearly 5 years old. So after all this time, what did you end up doing to the car.
------------------ 857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT , 5spd Custom Exhaust. MS3 Gold Box 6.0 LS Turbo.
Price Drop!!! Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front. For Sale $3750 USD
