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Potential build thread:f40 rival by Draco.R.Romanov
Started on: 01-30-2014 11:52 PM
Replies: 8 (2076 views)
Last post by: dematrix86gt on 02-02-2014 11:33 PM
Draco.R.Romanov
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Report this Post01-30-2014 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Draco.R.RomanovSend a Private Message to Draco.R.RomanovEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, so this is my first time on a forum and I'm also new to the fiero game. I am looking to start a project and am finally at a point in life where I can do that, but since I'm new to the whole deal and working on a limited budget I'm going to need all the help I can get. Here's my goal - I want to build a fiero that can come as close to the ferrari f40 as possible. Now I understand that this is a tall oder and that the fiero has some natural limitations but I feel with substantial work this could be accomplished. With my limited budget I plan on attacking this one piece at a time. Once I have selected a car I plan on chassis and body modifications first and powertrain work later when I have money to do it right. So my first thing I need help with is putting together a proper budget. I am looking forward to everyone's input both positive and negative. Any links to good sites for wheels or other parts are greatly appreciated. Lastly I want to state that I'm not trying to replicate the f40 only improve the fiero using the f40 as an influence.
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RobertGT
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Report this Post01-31-2014 01:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RobertGTSend a Private Message to RobertGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fast, cheap, reliable. Pick two. Ferrari picked the outliers. Limited budget means you can't. So pick two, no matter what, you'll never come close. Sorry man.
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lateFormula
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Report this Post01-31-2014 06:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Draco.R.Romanov:
With my limited budget I plan on attacking this one piece at a time.


If this is one of the controlling factors in your plan, then you will never approach the performance of a Ferrari F40. If you want a car that can perform at that level, then you should look elsewhere in the used car market.
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post01-31-2014 07:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've built a 308 replica www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/083063.html and am building a 355 replica right now www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000116.html so I've got some experience in what it takes as a shade-tree mechanic. I'd like to help you form some realistic expectations for timeline, budget, skills etc. But first, you're going to have to clarify which of these seemingly contradictory statements you intend to pursue, because it makes a difference:

 
quote
Originally posted by Draco.R.Romanov:
Here's my goal - I want to build a fiero that can come as close to the ferrari f40 as possible.


 
quote
Originally posted by Draco.R.Romanov:
I'm not trying to replicate the f40 only improve the fiero using the f40 as an influence.

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Fiero84Freak
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Report this Post01-31-2014 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One of the very first kit car replicas I saw in person was of an F40.

There are some really good F40 replicas out there. Ferrobi here on the forum had a REALLY nice F40 that he sold recently. It is a non-stretch model so it can use the stock Fiero space frame, but does come up short to the real thing length-wise. It was very well put together and had some really good replica items and feel to it.







He even had the master of repli-car interiors Amida do a very good F40 dash replica (this is by no means cheap).







The car was very well put together.

However... the very real and terrible thing about every single F40 replica ever made, and I don't mean non-stretch models... is this, also from Ferrobi's car;



No I'm not talking about the stock V6. I'm talking about the very integral iconic F40 rear window. Most people believe that the window was designed this way for looks (and to a large degree it was as it showed off the very fancy Ferrari engine). But the other two very real reasons why it was designed the way it was is both for cooling the engine and for aerodynamics. Never mind the fact too that the engine in the Fiero is pointed 90 degrees the other way compared to the real Ferrari.

Thus the whole idea of using a Fiero for this type replica thus just kind of falls onto it's face. On a Fiero the window doesn't have to be there necessarily for cooling, and it definitely doesn't have to be there for aerodynamics because you would be a fool to drive over triple digits in a kit car that has likely had structural compromise to fit the kit. So ultimately on a Fiero it is there for looks. However - and especially on non-stretch kits - the engines in the Fiero and most Fiero engine swaps are transverse mounted, not longitudinally mounted like the Ferrari F40.



For me then, with this very real limitation it's really near impossible for you to satisfy your contradictory statements. You won't be able to do this cheap, because you will ultimately have to get around these limitations. Obviously there are ways to get around issues of transverse mounting. The biggest of which would be to lengthen the rear of the frame to both accommodate a stretched kit and to facilitate a longitudinally mounted drivetrain swap. But if you do perform these modifications you'll be spending a good deal of money. However you have to perform these modifications to satisfy your means by improving on the basic Fiero geometry. And if you don't, even if you go with a fast transverse engine swap, you still be hampered by basic Fiero geometry which will limit the overall integrity of the build.

I mean ultimately if this doesn't bother you then by all means go ahead. And despite myself really liking kit cars and enjoying the kit car hobby, this is what has always killed F40 replicas for me personally. The beautiful thing about most Lamborghini and other Ferrari replicas (even the more modern ones like the F360) is you can get by with skimping on engine compartment details because the engines will be covered up. Even in kit car replicas that have some sort of glass cover (again, like the F360) you can smoke or tint the window over the decklid and no one would know different. You really cannot do this in any form with the F40, and thus you are ultimately subjected to the mercy of that very large rear window.

The Ferrari F40 is one of the most difficult kits to get "right," and I would surmise that the people that have done them "right" did not use Fieros and likely went with scratch build chassis.

[This message has been edited by Fiero84Freak (edited 01-31-2014).]

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Neils88
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Report this Post01-31-2014 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll say a few words as I'm currently working on a replica myself. Actually, I don't like the word replica since my goal isn't to duplicate the car of interest (in my case a Murcielago), but simply to use it as an inspiration. I will be using a Murcielago body kit, but I feel completely free to use "poetic licence" during the build. My goal is to create a fun car, with attention to fit and finish. Any die hard Lamborghini fan will quickly identify it as a "kit car", but for most people they will simply see a supercar. As for power, I have no intention of having high speeds...fines here are too high to make of any value. I'm installing a 4.9L V8 which is a relatively easy swap. I'll be adding a 7-8 psi turbo...which will be a tougher part of the mechanics. I am also not going to worry about setting a deadline for completion (let's face it, life throws curveballs quite often), but instead I have divided the project into small manageable steps. Achieving each defined step keeps me motivated.

Decide exactly what you want to achieve, but be prepared to make compromises. Don't rush anything. Above all, keep the project manageable and have fun with it!

My inspiration...

[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 01-31-2014).]

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Custom2M4
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Report this Post02-02-2014 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Custom2M4Send a Private Message to Custom2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Ferrari f40 Is a twin turbo v8. I happen to have a twin turbo v8.

Moral of the story, come to Canada and just buy my car to start with I already have half the Ferrari interior.

------------------

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Draco.R.Romanov
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Report this Post02-02-2014 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Draco.R.RomanovSend a Private Message to Draco.R.RomanovEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RobertGT:

Fast, cheap, reliable. Pick two. Ferrari picked the outliers. Limited budget means you can't. So pick two, no matter what, you'll never come close. Sorry man.


Lol I'm not sure that Ferrari really picked two of those. I'm hoping to have a car that is fast and relatively cheap but I'm actually hoping its unreliable and perhaps it'll even catch on fire if I'm lucky.

[This message has been edited by Draco.R.Romanov (edited 02-02-2014).]

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dematrix86gt
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Report this Post02-02-2014 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dematrix86gtSend a Private Message to dematrix86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If i was to try and tackle this build the motor of choice would be the Aurora 3.5 running twin turbosmotor pic. These motors can be bought Motor Price and they have Alot more HP than the Ferrari F40 actually almost double the HP. and can be fit in a Fiero one way or another. In a straight line you could blow the doors off a F40. Lord help you if you have to turn at those speeds in a fiero. The F40 is a race car plain and simple that was built for the street. I saw a interview with a ferrari engineer that built the F40. He said Quote: Its a basically a detuned Racecar with blinkers and lights. Getting a fiero to preform like a F40 in a straight line is easy considering the money but thats where it stops. It will never perform as a real F40 because it wasnt built from the ground up to do it. There was a F40 Replica in Okla city (nice car) for sale for about 10G Buy it swap your motor of choice pocket the rest and enjoy your ride and life. Strike it rich and buy the real deal.
Then again theres a guy on here building a BMW V12 fiero. Hes wicked talented and could steer you in some sort of direction, but bet he'll tell you the same thing. Lower your goals.

[This message has been edited by dematrix86gt (edited 02-02-2014).]

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