B&M have some low dollar inline coolers and TCI also has some. Jegs has their own line of coolers now and some even come with a electric fan. Look to spend 55.00 for a good cooler and 119.00 for a top of the line with Fan. My choice would be Jegs Part#555-60345 its 119.00 but with a 26,000GVW. thatll keep her cool. Jegs Cooler
Is it easier to add a transmission cooler or get a radiator for an automatic? This is for my 3800 swap. going from manual to automatic.
What is the best radiator or cooler to buy?
Depends on where ur at....When I ran a 3K stall I ran a straight cooler cause the built in cooler wasnt cutting it in the summer time. Only down side was in winter it took a while to get temps...I suggest if ur radiator is old then go with a new one with built in cooler and be done with it..
You should use the auto trans radiator. The "cooler" in the radiator also servers to heat the trans fluid to operating temperature and keep the temperature stable during operation. If for some reason the trans fluid runs hot, an external cooler could be installed in the cooling loop later. The best configuration would be to thermostatically control flow to the cooler to prevent over-cooling the trans during cooler weather.
Originally posted by olejoedad: You should use the auto trans radiator. The "cooler" in the radiator also servers to heat the trans fluid to operating temperature and keep the temperature stable during operation. If for some reason the trans fluid runs hot, an external cooler could be installed in the cooling loop later. The best configuration would be to thermostatically control flow to the cooler to prevent over-cooling the trans during cooler weather.
Yes OE type in radiator heat or cools trans oil depending on weather etc.
Many saying cooling is needed are ignoring TCC lockup. TC is Main source of Transmission Heat. When TC is locked the trans should make little heat. Trans Oil NEEDs some heat to work right. Radiator "cooler" tries to make sure oil stays hot enough to work.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I am in South Dakota so I think a radiator will be the way to go. Is there a specific brand OE radiator I should go with or just pick one up at the local auto parts store? Should I try and find factory lines from a fiero to go from the radiator to the transmission? Thanks for the quick replies. MstangsBware did you get ahold of Dan to see about building my axles?
I believe that the Fiero radiator cooler is marginal for the 4T65eHD especially in states with hot climates. I replaced the radiator with a Champion radiator that is larger overall but an external trans cooler with the stock radiator is a very good idea.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Do you have a part # for the champion you bought for your car? Was a lot of modification needed to install it? Will stock fiero transmission coolant lines work with this radiator?
I noticed on the fierostore the coolant tubes for auto are different then manual will I need to replace my coolant tubes since my car is originally a manual?
Most decent coolers mount right in front of the radiator or condensor and include the mounting and hoses needed to hook it up to the stock system. For those of you that have had your A/C gutted and still have the condensor and don't plan to reinstall, The condensor makes a good huge trans cooler. Cut the fittings off the ends and install hoses. In tandem of the stock cooler. I like using tandem extra and stock coolers. The extra cooler takes care of the extra heat and the stock cooler keeps the temp up enough for those frigid days. Be careful and check your cooler in the radiator. I see a good number of partially plugged stock coolers. They do a good job of cooling. The problem is when the inside of the hoses start to come apart they get lodged in the cooler. Because of the sharp turns of the fluid in the cooler, it is easier to replace the radiator. The chunks will roll around in the cooler rather than coming out when you try to flush them. You think you have it clear only to have it plug up later. Found this on 4L60e, 4T60e, 4T65. The overheated fluid plays havoc with the solenoids. I have found it best to use an external cooler before the stock cooler. With an inline filter between them. The filters you can get for power steering return lines work, but they do make trans line filters. Install the hoses tight enough not to leak but to leak or blow off if the filter plugs up. Rather have it blow off or start leaking and let you know, rather than to cook your fluid. Also not much of an issue when you have a good cooler or when you have a lot of airflow. However found out from some trans builders that the aluminum of the case is semi porous on the outside. It helps a little NOT to paint the case. Not that big of an issue. But helps a little. Helps the case give off some of the heat. Mine was already painted before I got it.
[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 02-05-2014).]
You should use the auto trans radiator. The "cooler" in the radiator also servers to heat the trans fluid to operating temperature and keep the temperature stable during operation. If for some reason the trans fluid runs hot, an external cooler could be installed in the cooling loop later. The best configuration would be to thermostatically control flow to the cooler to prevent over-cooling the trans during cooler weather.
Darn it. PO installed a cooler next to the trans. More than likely because the car was a manual so the radiator does not have the inlets/outlets. So it looks like I have another project ahead.
Darn it. PO installed a cooler next to the trans. More than likely because the car was a manual so the radiator does not have the inlets/outlets. So it looks like I have another project ahead.
A trans cooler mounted mid ship between (on brackets attached to the cradle) and the rear firewall should work. That location gets decent air flow. I know of a few guys that mounted them there and so far so good.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I have discussed 4T65-E HD trans cooling in a Fiero with my custom transmission builder, Dave, over at Triple Edge Performance. I consider his opinion on the matter to be an expert opinion, so it might be worth listening to what he has to say.
It is his opinion, that in a performance application, he would like to run the auto trans fluid as cool as practical. Now we are not talking about anything crazy here like running it thru some kind of super-cooler with ice or anything like that. But we are certainly not talking about letting it run north of 200 deg F either (which you will likely see if you are trying to use only the OE Fiero AT radiator to cool it)
There are two problems with the OE Fiero radiator's auto trans cooler:
1) The auto trans cooler element in the OE Fiero AT radiator is located in the side tank that the HOT engine coolant dumps into. This means you are going to be relying on uncooled engine coolant which is going to probably be hotter than thermostat closing temp to "cool" your transmission fluid. All of the OE GM cars the 4T65-E transmission was used in has the AT fluid radiator cooling element located in the side tank of the radiator that is subjected to engine coolant that has already flowed thru and been cooled by the radiator. (But even in such applications, it isn't uncommon to see transmission fluid temps exceed 200 deg F).
2) The auto trans cooler element in the OE Fiero AT radiator has 5/16" steel line double flare connections. And inside these connections at the radiator, there is a bottleneck, or restriction, at the entry point into the radiator's cooling element. The orifice size is about 1/4" if I remember correctly. So what you are talking about doing is taking a 3/8" sized cooling line coming out of a 4T65-E and cutting it down to 1/4" or smaller - which isn't the best idea (although it may work ok). Going from the 4T65-E's 3/8" line down to OE Fiero 5/16" AT cooler lines has proven to work fine even in performance applications, as I and several others have tested. But I don't think I would risk running it thru a stock Fiero's radiator AT cooling element, especially if this is going to be a performance application.
What I am now doing in all my swaps that use a 4T65-E trans is this:
Using special AN fittings, I connect the 4T65-E via braided -6 AN line to the OE Fiero 5/16" AT cooler lines (use the OEM steel ones only if they are in good shape, otherwise install a set of Fiero Store stainless AT cooler lines). Then, up front, I connect the 5/16" AT cooler lines to -6 AN fittings and braided line to a minimum 22,000 lb GVW external trans cooler only (not running thru the Fiero radiator) and place the external trans cooler out in front of the OE Fiero A/C condenser.
All connections are made using AN fittings and AN braided line to ensure there are no clamped on rubber hoses that can blow off. On more than one occasion I have seen (and have had happen to me) clamped on rubber AT transmission cooler hoses blow off and dump fluid on the ground. These rubber cooler lines do not last forever and can swell and shrink in changing weather conditions, and also from being saturated with AT fluid over time. Quality braided AN line is impervious to AT fluid and the hose end AN connections form a secure mechanical seal that will not leak or pull apart under pressure.
-ryan
------------------ OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
It is also worth noting that certain quality stacked plate type external transmission coolers have a "temperature regulated" bypass function that allows them a measure of controlling transmission fluid temperature.
quote
•Tru-Cool self-regulating coolers - it is the oil that regulates the cooler. •Thicker oil that is below the ideal operating temperature bypasses the cooler through the upper two plates. When the temperature rises, it becomes thin enough to pass through the entire cooler. TRU-COOL's superior heat transfer is efficient & automatic.
Good info but I do not believe that the fittings you reference will fit the 04-07 4T65eHD. The thread might be the same but on the later transmissions the fitting on the bottom is a very long one. There might be a check valve in that one as well. I have been running with a much larger 3 core Champion Radiator and using the integral trans cooler. I run a 180*F stat and so far so good but IMO its still marginal. We will add another inline cooler this summer. Better safe than sorry.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Good info but I do not believe that the fittings you reference will fit the 04-07 4T65eHD. The thread might be the same but on the later transmissions the fitting on the bottom is a very long one. There might be a check valve in that one as well.
You are correct. There are different fittings for different model year 4T65-E transmissions. You need to make sure you are using the correct ones and also using ones that have a check ball in them IF your particular model of 4T65-E requires it (not all do). For this reason, I recommend anyone wanting to use the AN fittings contact Dave at www.tripleedgeperformance.com and ask him what type of fittings you need for your specific 4T65-E. He might even be able to sell them to you.
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 02-08-2014).]
Unless the stock coolant lines are in very good shape I replace the lines all the way with 3/8 steel lines which are a pain to fit in the same place but do work. If the car is strictly a summer car then straight through an after market tranny cooler mounted in front of the rad and back, if the car is to see colder weather then I also run through the rad. Been doing this for well over ten years now and had no problems. If you are going to use the rubber lines at all then be sure to check them over first, make sure they are for tranny fluid use not fuel lines and always flare the steel line going into the rubber and use good strong clamps for this I use the fuel injection clamps. Have never had a line leak but have had them back out of the hose if they are not flared as there is quite a bit of pressure there. Dan
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DARN Cars now open with Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation. Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars. Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.
I used a 50' role 3/8 tubing from JEGS. Flared the ends, double clamped all rubber lines.
The problem with using bare 3/8" tubing is it lacks the "road rash" protective spiral wound wire covering that protects it from road debris damage. The factory 5/16" lines have this and so do the new stainless steel 5/16" cooler lines from the Fiero Store. I would prefer to have the protective covering on my lines rather than chance them getting damaged or kinked by road debris which you will inevitably run over at some point if you drive your car on public roads. The trans cooler lines run right along the driver's side in the Fiero and are exposed to debris getting kicked up by the left front tire constantly.
As for flaring the ends of the tube and double clamping on rubber line, I have done that in the past and still had issues with it wanting to blow off after some age has accumulated on the rubber hose. (Yes I was using AT fluid rated hose). If you regularly check your clamps and make sure they are tight as well as replace the rubber hoses periodically, you probably won't have any problems. But I can't rely on the average Joe Customer to do this which is why I'm basically mandating the AN fittings and braided line be used on all future customer builds. Does it cost more? Yes. AN fittings and braided line are not cheap. But even with the higher cost of these parts, it is still far cheaper than the cost of R&R'ing a transmission and having it rebuilt if a line blows off and dumps all the fluid onto the ground, frying the transmission in the process.
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 02-09-2014).]
So this is some great discussion. I have decided to go with a new stock fiero radiator and a cooler. What will be the best way to go for the lines? My car is a manual originally so nothing to work with. Do i need to make my own from scratch or do the stock lines the fierostore sales work for the 4t65hd? Also how do you route the lines. into the radiator first then out of the radiator into the cooler and then to the transmission something like that?
And most important does anyone make a set (or willing to) of lines that will be plug and play for my swap that i can buy?
You can also buy brass nose nipple fittings that fit directly into the OEM fittings and are held in place with the snap ring like the original metal lines. You can then use a 3/8 to 5/16" transition hose nipple that is available at Marine Supply Houses. This way the trans cooler lines can be secured tightly with hose clamps and will not fall off.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Get the Fiero Store's stainless AT cooler lines. Should bolt right on to your car after you remove the clutch line. The only catch is you may need some tube clamps to bolt them up to the existing studs on the underbody of your Fiero. But you should be able to get metal tube clamps from your local hardware store.
I used a 50' role 3/8 tubing from JEGS. Flared the ends, double clamped all rubber lines.
