Forgive my ignorance, but I have never once worked on anything related to the suspension on a car. Not so much as changing out a shock. My day job is actually in the IT file AKA Computer Geek
That aside, I have been systematically working on one thing on my car at a time pretty much since I started the restore. The car is finally on the road again after around 13 years. 9 years the previous owner had it sitting, and the 4 that I have had it. You can view my step by step build thread here. There are TONS of photo's and videos throughout the thread.
Anyhow, as I mentioned I just got the car on the road. I have found it difficult to handle when I am on a bumpy road. The steering wheel kicks left and right as I hit bumps. I have to keep a pretty good grip on the wheel, so I can keep the car centered in my lane. If I am on a smooth road, the car travels straight and true if I take my hands off of the wheel. I pulled the front left tire today and noticed a lot of old degraded rubber in all the locations where rubber is used. Could all of this bad rubber cause the kicking in the steering wheel, or it it something else / more serious?
Again, this is all new to me, so forgive me. Where is the best place to get all of these bushings? Do they need to be bought separately or as a kit? It looks like there are lots of different sizes and shapes up bushings just where I can see around in the wheel well. I do know that I do not want to use poly bushing. I like the bit softer feel, and no squeaks of the stock rubber style bushings.
Any help and suggestions are very much welcome, and thank you in advance!
Here is a photo of just how bad the rubber is rotted out. I poked it with a screw drive and water squirted out!
In the mean time, with the wheel off, I am in the process right now of wire brushing, degreasing and cleaning everything. I am painting the control arms and such with flat black Rustoleum. I am also painting the caliper in blue, and the hub in flat black. All high temperature caliper paint.
Yes, a torn boot would not cause this problem or any other problem. A bad boot just cause wear problems.
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Originally posted by jpeeler: Looks like you have a bent tie rod.
At minimum. You would need a new tie rod and rod joint. And that's if the rack didn't take damage too. Could also have bent one or both control arms, the spindle, and even the crossmember or frame.
Get a collision estimate from a shop or two before you tear it apart.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
If they have never been replaced, I highly recommend you replace the inner and outer tie rods plus all ball joints all the way around. I did recently with all of Rodney's stuff and although a lot of work it made a big difference. I had it all, popping noise in turns (front ball joints) and a feeling the back end was moving out from under me(rear lower ball joints/ and tie rods) and it corrected it all.
After reading the above post about from teh Ogre & getting it to a collision shop, I about had a heart attack! With the time and money invested thus far to have a bent frame... yikes!
In light of this, I used my "Phone a Fiero Friend" option today Explaining in detail the way the tie rod is bent and such, Dean (CaptnDean) is pretty certain (Without physically seeing under the car) it was probably done by a tow truck driver when the precious owner had it. I say previous owner, as my brother in law flat-bedded it to my house (Look to the left at my avatar ) and he knows better than to do something stupid like that.
Dean seems to think tightening / locking it down on a flat bed , while connected to the tie rod would cause this exact damage. That combined with the fact that there is no frame damage under the hood, that can be seen, or when I replaced the front bumper. It would take one heck of a collision to bend the control arm that bad I would think, one that should easily have left tons of tell tale repairs.
I will know more when I get home tomorrow and have a chance to get a better look at everything.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-16-2014).]
probably done by a tow truck driver when the precious owner had it. I say previous owner, as my brother in law flat-bedded it to my house (Look to the left at my avatar ) and he knows better than to do something stupid like that.
Dean seems to think tightening / locking it down on a flat bed , while connected to the tie rod would cause this exact damage.
Thats a good bet. Especially since it is bent forward.
You can drive a car with a bent frame if it is not to bad!! normally if the steering components are good the car will drive O.K. A bent frame is no good for a daily driver or a car you are going to spend a lot of money on !! Fiero,s are cheap! I would look for another & transfer the great components you have from the bent frame car to the new Fiero,I have worked with cars all my life never seen a rod bent like that except on a car that had been in a major collision a tow truck driver would have to be asleep to cause such damage ,it would take a really powerful motor to do this sort of damage with no noticiable noise
Not to mention that with that bent rod, the car would be doing all sorts of strange things while moving. Whit that much of a bend the front toe would have been out A LOT. Someone must have adjusted the rod end after the bending stunt to allow the car to track strait while driving. That being said some one knew about that issue prior to you buying the car. It requires the new parts anyway so swap them out and have the car aligned and see what happens.
New parts are already ordered, and will be at the parts store tomorrow for pickup.
That is one major bend for sure. As mentioned it would take one really bad collision to cause that to bend like that. I had the bumper off when I replaced it with the 355i bumper, and never noticed any damage. I also have found no weld marks, mis-alignment, or anything crooked in any way around the front of the car. This does make a good mystery, as if it wasn't a collision or a tow truck driver Oops, then what would cause a tie rod to bend THAT badly.
Originally posted by JohnWPB: This does make a good mystery, as if it wasn't a collision or a tow truck driver Oops, then what would cause a tie rod to bend THAT badly.
Doing donuts in the snow in a parking lot. Car gets out of control and slides into a curb or parking block and only impacts the wheel. Wouldn't take much of an impact to bend the tie rod like that.
Ok, now back to my original question in the first post
I need the rubber bushings/washers/gromits to replace all my old ones. I do not want poly, and no one is going to talk me into it. So, where can I buy the replacement OEM style rubber stuff? I do not see it on the Fiero Store. I did find this on Amazon, and fits a "1986 Pontiac Fiero". Does that look like the ones I would need?
I appreciate the attempt at helping, but that is unfortunately not much help at this point. If I knew what I needed, it would probably be a lot easier to order it
I will repeat what I said in the first post, and my last one. I know nothing about suspension, and am not sure what I need to order. I need all of the bushings/grommets/washers ect for under the front end, and do not want to use poly. There are links, bumpers, bushings, washers, grommets and tons of other stuff, and I honestly just do not know what all to purchase.
I so far have ordered the Tie Rod I also have new upper and lower ball joints from a couple years back when Rock Auto was doing one of their Fiero Parts Closeout sales. I also just ordered a steering stabilizer shock a few minutes ago.
These were the Rock Auto parts I ordered a couple years ago:
It looks like either the upper or lower ball joints come with a rubber bushing, so I probably do not need to order those separately.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-16-2014).]
Ok, now back to my original question in the first post
I need the rubber bushings/washers/gromits to replace all my old ones. I do not want poly, and no one is going to talk me into it. So, where can I buy the replacement OEM style rubber stuff? I do not see it on the Fiero Store. I did find this on Amazon, and fits a "1986 Pontiac Fiero". Does that look like the ones I would need?
Yes John, those are the sway bar end link kits. They look blue so they may be poly and not the rubber you are wanting.
Yes John, those are the sway bar end link kits. They look blue so they may be poly and not the rubber you are wanting.
Crap... does anyone even make a kit using the standard rubber? Trying to find each individual piece when not knowing what to look for in the first place is hit and miss.....
As for the tie rod you ordered, I hope you ordered the inner and outer tie rod ends. The inner tie rod end is the one that is bent in the picture. I would replace the outer at the same time because of age.
On a side note, I am gald they don`t replace me because of age
RockAuto has the Moog ball joints and they have the sway bar parts in rubber listed as "stabilizer bar". They also have the Moog rubber control arm bushings
RockAuto has the Moog ball joints and they have the sway bar parts in rubber listed as "stabilizer bar". They also have the Moog rubber control arm bushings
Perfect! I just ordered 2 uppers and 2 lowers. As for the stabilizer bar bushing, I put in 86 Fiero, and there are 3 options: Front To Frame; w/13/16" or Smaller Bar Front; 19mm - 22mm Bar Front To Frame; w/7/8" or Larger Bar
I am not sure what I need here.....
I am checking this thread as soon as there are posts, as I am trying to get all this stuff by Saturday, so I can tackle the job on Monday, which I happen to have off this upcoming week.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-16-2014).]
Perfect! I just ordered 2 uppers and 2 lowers. As for the stabilizer bar bushing, I put in 86 Fiero, and there are 3 options: Front To Frame; w/13/16" or Smaller Bar Front; 19mm - 22mm Bar Front To Frame; w/7/8" or Larger Bar
I am not sure what I need here.....
I am checking this thread as soon as there are posts, as I am trying to get all this stuff by Saturday, so I can tackle the job on Monday, which I happen to have off this upcoming week.
You are going to have to crawl under the car and measure the diameter of your sway bar to get this answer.
Crap..... that will have to wait till tomorrow. Double Crap, I will have to get something while I am out tomorrow to measure it with.... a standard metal tape measure is not going to cut it.... wait... DUH! strip of Paper, mark, THEN measure with "standard metal tape measure"
Thanks much everyone!
This car has sat for the 4 years I have owned it, and I finally got to drive it a tiny bit, and I just want to back on the road NOW! hehe
Not to mention that with that bent rod, the car would be doing all sorts of strange things while moving. Whit that much of a bend the front toe would have been out A LOT.
Someone must have adjusted the rod end after the bending stunt to allow the car to track strait while driving. That being said some one knew about that issue prior to you buying the car.
That's an excellent point. This didn't occur on the way to John's place while on the trailer.
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
I will have to get something while I am out tomorrow to measure it (the sway bar) with.... a standard metal tape measure is not going to cut it.... wait... DUH! strip of Paper, mark, THEN measure with "standard metal tape measure"
Use a crescent wrench to go around the sway bar and measure that, or better yet, use the correct size open end wrench and the measurement will already be on it.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-17-2014).]
Originally posted by theogre: The collision shop said you have a bent frame? Could be anything... Car hit something, the frame has rust damage are two big ones.
Where did anyone say that the collision show said the car had a bent frame? You were the only one that mentioned a collision shop, and scared the crap out of me at reading it. I mentioned that I knew nothing about suspension, so I took it at your word with no question
The frame is not rusted anywhere, other than very light surface rust. The floor pans, trunk, cradle, frame are all virtually rust free.
As for the Moog parts, as mentioned, I have the uppers and lowers for both sides from a close out purchase on Rock Auto a couple years back.
After reading the above post about from teh Ogre & getting it to a collision shop, I about had a heart attack! With the time and money invested thus far to have a bent frame... yikes!
In light of this, I used my "Phone a Fiero Friend" option today Explaining in detail the way the tie rod is bent and such, Dean (CaptnDean) is pretty certain (Without physically seeing under the car) it was probably done by a tow truck driver when the precious owner had it. I say previous owner, as my brother in law flat-bedded it to my house (Look to the left at my avatar ) and he knows better than to do something stupid like that.
Dean seems to think tightening / locking it down on a flat bed , while connected to the tie rod would cause this exact damage. That combined with the fact that there is no frame damage under the hood, that can be seen, or when I replaced the front bumper. It would take one heck of a collision to bend the control arm that bad I would think, one that should easily have left tons of tell tale repairs.
I will know more when I get home tomorrow and have a chance to get a better look at everything.
I can see how Ogre thought you had a bent frame looking at the wording. I thought the same thing read through the thread. That is good to hear though that the frame is not bent. I was wondering why you were pushing further with the suspension parts.
I was wondering why you were pushing further with the suspension parts.
I am doing that for a better ride. When I got it on the road a couple weeks ago, it feels like driving a go kart. That is the best way I can describe it when hitting bumps, and the way the front end feels. While I am under there replacing the tie rod, I figured I would go ahead and do everything else.
That has been my mantra all along... When my radiator had a leak, I replaced it, and decided while I am at it, go ahead and chance the fan, while I at that, go ahead and change the relay, and before I hook it all back up, go ahead and replace the hoses. Put water in and go ahead and replace the radiator caps
My Fiero is an 86 GT. Stock 2.8, all be it a new crate engine 2.8 with all new parts installed on it Water pump, starter, altenator, A/C compressor, wires cap module, TPS, all sensors, ...ect....... again, If I am gonna do something, my motto is to do try to do right
