After reading, thinking, and more reading, I've decided I'm going to drain the 5W30 that's in my transmission now (as per the manual in 1987) and put in GM Synchromesh (as per the manual in 1988 and GM TSB 88-7-17).
I'm not sure on the comparative differences between GM and alternative synchromesh fluids, so I think I'll just get the GM stuff from a nearby dealer unless somebody makes a convincing argument in favour of another fluid. I've seen a lot of subjective arguments about different brands, but nothing bad stated about the GM fluid.
My main question is: Do I just drain the 5w30 and pour in the synchromesh? As it is a different fluid, should I perform any special flush procedure, or is that not really a concern?
Also, I haven't been able to locate an actual copy of TSB 88-7-17. Does anybody have a copy? I'd like to print it out and stick it in my service manual.
I wasn't able to find a copy of 88-7-17, but I did find a similar notice for the Chevy Beretta. It stated that mixing the previously recommended 5w30 with synchromesh is acceptable, but shifting effort increases with higher ratios of 5w30. So unless GM was recommending entirely different 5w30 and synchromesh between the two cars, I should be fine with whatever residue is left after draining.
Regarding trotterlg's question: I do have some hard shifting. I could probably live with it, but if there is an easy method to improve it for about $30-40 of fluid, why not? I'm going to be changing the engine oil anyway.
I'm not sure on the comparative differences between GM and alternative synchromesh fluids, so I think I'll just get the GM stuff from a nearby dealer unless somebody makes a convincing argument in favour of another fluid. I've seen a lot of subjective arguments about different brands, but nothing bad stated about the GM fluid.
Get whatever synchromesh fluid is the least expensive in your area. It's all the same stuff.
I had quite an experience buying synchromesh fluid a few years ago when I switched over. Read about it HERE. Make sure to read the second page.
I wasn't able to find a copy of 88-7-17, but I did find a similar notice for the Chevy Beretta. It stated that mixing the previously recommended 5w30 with synchromesh is acceptable, but shifting effort increases with higher ratios of 5w30. So unless GM was recommending entirely different 5w30 and synchromesh between the two cars, I should be fine with whatever residue is left after draining.
Regarding trotterlg's question: I do have some hard shifting. I could probably live with it, but if there is an easy method to improve it for about $30-40 of fluid, why not? I'm going to be changing the engine oil anyway.
Flush and fill the clutch fluid too. Especially if it's not been done. New fluid in the clutch line, with a fully bled system will feel much better and might help with the hard shifting as well.
Ive used synchromesh fluid in all the fieros Ive owned for over 20 years. It's amazing how much of a difference it makes!!!! in both shifting and longevity of the transmission.
One drawback is this, the fluid is so clear usually it makes checking the level a little difficult. The solution, I add one ounce (1oz) of liquid food coloring to the fluid, I use Yellow, but red, & orange work well also and it won't hurt the internals of the trans.
Yes, flush the hydraulics! Also, lube the shift cables with motorcycle or ATV cable lube. Do this by hooking shop vac to one end of the cable(s) with duct tape, then use the little tube on the can of lube to squirt it in the other end, let the vacuum suck it through. Lubing the old cables can also make a big dif. Good Luck!
I called my local GM, and they have the AC Delco fluid for $12.45 for 1l. Partsource only carries Pennzoil, and it was $17.
I've never bled a clutch before. I'll read about that tonight -- Looks like some good information on Calgary Fieros and Youtube.
Since I've never done this before, AND I need to fix the breaks on my Cobalt this weekend as well, I might leave the clutch for another day. It's been added to the list, though.
I called my local GM, and they have the AC Delco fluid for $12.45 for 1l. Partsource only carries Pennzoil, and it was $17.
I've never bled a clutch before. I'll read about that tonight -- Looks like some good information on Calgary Fieros and Youtube.
Since I've never done this before, AND I need to fix the breaks on my Cobalt this weekend as well, I might leave the clutch for another day. It's been added to the list, though.
Perfect time to do it then, if you're going to be bleeding the brakes on your Cobalt, you''ll already have fluid and necessary tools on hand to do the work.
Perfect time to do it then, if you're going to be bleeding the brakes on your Cobalt, you''ll already have fluid and necessary tools on hand to do the work.
Wasn't planning on bleeding them. I had a spring break in a rear drum (probably -- didn't have the tools to get the drum off at the roadside) locking a wheel -- luckily, it was just before I hit the highway. Towed home. Suddenly the Fiero is promoted to primary vehicle
I figured while I'm at it, I'd throw new do new shoes & drums in back, and pads & rotors up front. They could probably stretch a bit longer, but if I'm already taking everything apart now...
I've never done any of this before. Part of the idea of getting the Fiero was to learn to do all my own work on both vehicles -- second car means that if I get stuck on a repair, I can still get to work or get parts. I'm wary enough of changing fluid on both vehicles on the same day (both need engine oil), without mucking around with (potentially) rendering my clutch and brakes inoperable and not having a drivable car (or a stoppable one)
The guys that raced IMSA with the Quad 4 and Getrags many years ago also added about a shot glass full of STP engine treatment. They say it has a very good high pressure additive in it. So I did that on my Getrag when I changed to the syncromesh fluid years ago. I had standard 5w-40 engine oil in it. Made a noticeable improvement. Not huge but certainly noticeable.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Reportedly Pennzoil makes the Manual Transmission Synchromesh Fluid for GM. Interesting that you found GM Synchromesh to be cheaper than Pennzoil. I found the GM product to be at least twice as much, with Autozone selling Pennzoil for about $9 and GM Synchromesh to be at least $17.
Other factors causing hard shifting could be that your cables are beginning to go bad. Rodney has a cure for that.
Some have advised flushing and add new fluid to your clutch lines....while that is a great thing to do and I also recommend it....
Be very very aware that bleeding your clutch is NOT in any way an easy procedure as it should be..and as advertised..
Bleeding the clutch is actually not that hard. Much easier if you have someone to hold the pedal, but it can be done alone with the use of a tension rod to hold the pedal. Main things to avoid are pumping the pedal, and letting the master reservoir get too low.
Bleeding the clutch is actually not that hard. Much easier if you have someone to hold the pedal, but it can be done alone with the use of a tension rod to hold the pedal. Main things to avoid are pumping the pedal, and letting the master reservoir get too low.
again please remember.... That bleeding your clutch is NOT in any way an easy procedure as it should be..and as advertised..
again please remember.... That bleeding your clutch is NOT in any way an easy procedure as it should be..and as advertised..
I did mine alone, when I installed Rodney's master and slave cylinders, after the seal busted in my slave, on my Getrag. It actually was quite easy, yes. Not as easy as bleeding the rear driver side brakes, since I couldn't reach the bleed valve on the slave cylinder from the driver seat, like I can with the brake caliper, But with a tension rod to hold the clutch pedal down, and following the correct procedure, it was actually very easy.
Well, I didn't get the swap done. Rained Saturday, which just left Sunday for outside work.
I was hoping to get the Fiero up on stands so I could have a little more room to work underneath. It's so low that I need to drive on to some scrap wood to get enough clearance for my floor jack. I'm curious if this is normal, or if my car was lowered at some point (I'll have to meet another Fiero owner to compare). Unfortunately I left the marker lights on last night, so the battery was dead. Maybe I'll put the blue dingy-thing back in...
Normally I would have tried using another method, but today was the first cruze-in at my local Canadian Tire (I didn't want to miss it).
Also, I was really pissed off after fighting with my Cobalt's drum brakes for the bulk of the day. Found that problem, though:
[This message has been edited by seq (edited 05-04-2014).]
Originally posted by seq: I was hoping to get the Fiero up on stands so I could have a little more room to work underneath. It's so low that I need to drive on to some scrap wood to get enough clearance for my floor jack. I'm curious if this is normal, or if my car was lowered at some point (I'll have to meet another Fiero owner to compare)
Either your car was lowered, or you have a fairly tall floor jack. I have a low profile floor jack from Harbor Freight, and I can't even get it under the nose of my GT since I lowered it. No problem in the rear though. Lifting at the rear cross member, it actually lifts the car high enough that the nose is practically touching the ground. But my car is lowered about 1.6" or so.
Either your car was lowered, or you have a fairly tall floor jack. I have a low profile floor jack from Harbor Freight, and I can't even get it under the nose of my GT since I lowered it. No problem in the rear though. Lifting at the rear cross member, it actually lifts the car high enough that the nose is practically touching the ground. But my car is lowered about 1.6" or so.
My floor jack is regular car jack I've used for years. It's not a heavy-duty truck jack, or anything unusually large. I'm about 2cm too short for the rear cross member. I usually just roll onto some scrap wood first. Haven't jacked the front yet, but I might be in the same situation.
Without having another fiero to compare with, how would I tell? Measure height and compare online? Can I guesstimate from the angle of the rear drive axle from the transmission?
My floor jack is regular car jack I've used for years. It's not a heavy-duty truck jack, or anything unusually large. I'm about 2cm too short for the rear cross member. I usually just roll onto some scrap wood first. Haven't jacked the front yet, but I might be in the same situation.
Without having another fiero to compare with, how would I tell? Measure height and compare online? Can I guesstimate from the angle of the rear drive axle from the transmission?
Are the springs green or purple? If so, then it was lowered with Intrax (purple) or Suspension Techniques (green) springs. Post a pic of the straight-on side view of the car? There's a pretty large wheel well gap for stock ride height Fieros, so if you've got less gap, it probably means it was lowered.
I believe the previous owner put on blue coil-overs.
I don't have a good side-view of the car handy. Closest I have is on an angle when I saw a Firebird Formula. Not so clear, unfortunately, but there is still wheel gap.
It looks like it might be lowered a little, maybe only an inch. Fieros are pretty low to start with though, but you should be able to get a regular floor jack under one in the rear for sure, at stock height.
I had posted some photos of the firebird to reddit. I didn't know if the firebird owner would want his plate blocked out or not, so I did. This photo had both cars in it, and while I didn't care, I blocked it out too for consistency.
The other photos I've posted on here I didn't bother.
I was hoping to get the Fiero up on stands so I could have a little more room to work underneath. It's so low that I need to drive on to some scrap wood to get enough clearance for my floor jack. I'm curious if this is normal, or if my car was lowered at some point
Here's what you need. No Fiero owner should be without one. It is low profile and high lift. Perfect for getting under a cradle or front cross member (even with flat tires) and still being able to work it without crawling under your car with it. Sure, it's from Harbor Freight but I have used mine a BUNCH and have been more than pleased with it!
Here's what you need. No Fiero owner should be without one. It is low profile and high lift. Perfect for getting under a cradle or front cross member (even with flat tires) and still being able to work it without crawling under your car with it. Sure, it's from Harbor Freight but I have used mine a BUNCH and have been more than pleased with it!
I've seen those low-profile jacks go on sale at Canadian Tire. I'll have to keep my eyes open.
Since I'm not taking the wheels off, AND my battery is charged today, I was able to use ramps:
Fluid was a lot dirtier than I expected. I had assumed that it would be a lot cleaner than engine oil.
I've only driven it around the block so far, so i can't really comment on feel. I'll be driving it to work tomorrow (about a 45 minute drive through the country) and can provide some completely biased, self-congratulating feedback (like "This thing I did is the best ever", or "I spent $30 on it, so you know it works").
I can't rule that out, though I was sure the PO had said he replaced the fluid. He only had the car from about 2010.
Also, the service manual (I bought the full GM manual) indicates the capacity is 1.9l, so that's what I put in (Actually, I probably got about 1920ml in there. Hard to stop with exactly 100ml left in a bottle). The 88 manual (which actually specified synchromesh in it, instead of via TSB later) also indicated 1.9l, so I don't think the target capacity changed with the fluid.
Your paint looks really good... respray or garage queen?
The paint looks great from a few feet away. At least the side panel with the intake was resprayed (there is some overspray on the edge of the ground effects), but the rest of it appears original. Or a really old respray, anyway.
I believe it was garaged most of it's life. I feel bad for not owning a garage myself, but I bought a pretty decent cover at least.
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Old trans fluid is full of synchronizer wear particles... not surprising it's dark.
I think that's probably it.
Result of the drive to work: Shifting was much smoother, but I still had at least two instances where it wouldn't shift into first unless I let it roll slightly. And third is still "grabby" -- My weak mechanical vocabulary is a problem here, but it doesn't go in entirely smooth into third, unless I do it really slow. From what I've been reading and watching about manual transmissions, I think this is the synchronizers getting worn down (at least, that's my guess for third, at the least).
All the other gears are smoother. It's not out of this world better, but worth $30 in fluid, especially since it got the old dirty stuff out.
I think a clutch fluid bleed will fix your difficult shift into first.
This. Flush and fill the clutch fluid. Also check for leaks at the slave and master cylinders. My slave had a blown seal, but the rubber boot was sealed and holding the fluid, so I didn't have any visible leak, but the pedal had lost pressure as a result, with the slave not travelling as much as it should have been. I ended up replacing both the slave and master cylinders with ones from Rodney Dickman, and it performed much better after the replacements, and flushing the old fluid out through the bleed process.
Originally posted by seq: I'll give that a shot at some point in the future. It's not something I'm wanting to get into right now.
I had thought that a clutch fluid bleed would only affect disengaging the clutch, and not actually shifting it into/out of gear.
If the clutch is not properly/fully disengaged, the shafts can still receive some energy from the engine, and make it difficult or impossible to shift into gears. Mine got worse over time, and eventually I wasn't even able to shift into first with the engine running. If the fluid is 27 years old, it almost certainly needs flushed and replaced, and it's very plausible that a seal on the master or the slave may have gone bad.
